New Car Day! 1938 P6 Plymouth Deluxe

[maxime]

17 hours ago, tjlarson88 said:

 

Looks like a nice cozy space to ride together! Love seeing your progress, Keith. 

Nice interior !!! mine still has the traces of rats and tears of time I'll take your photos to inspire me thanks

[dpollo]

Did you know that  in 37 there is provision for a rear seat speaker built into the backrest and upper cushion of the front seat ? The speaker faces the rear seat passengers.No reason the 38 would be different .  When not installed, there are no external clues .  It is in the centre of the front seat backrest  either just above or just below the robe rail cord.

[keithb7]

@dpollo I did not know that. The seat has been recovered now, so I am not wanting to cut in for a speaker. 
 

With the oil pan off, when I turn the flywheel by hand, I can hear a little compressed air coming down past the rings. It bellows, amplified in the crankcase. Easy to hear. I suspect this is an indicator of blow by? I suspect any engine with some use will eventually allow this to occur. How bad? Depends on time in service and wear. It’s inevitable. The Compression, vacuum measured Engine sludge  seem respectable. I’ll carry on as is. Maybe I’ll pop off a main and a rod cap and inspect those too. 

[Sniper]

Ring gap is at it's maximum when the engine is cold so leak by is probably not as bad as you may think.  Heck, the ring gaps may have lined up as well I;vve had that happen on a engine I built and I know I staggered the gaps when I first installed the pistons.

[keithb7]

18 hours ago, Worden18 said:

you're not afraid to tackle any project, and that you're very consistent.  

I have my limits...Sewing upholstery! This is where my better half steps in. Body work? I’m on the fence. I keep threatening to buy a 210v MIG buzzbox. I am reluctant,  but do want to try. When I get to that stage, I’ll give it a shot. 
 

 I have a friend. He was a school teacher. He’s retired now and can be found welding currently. He’s in the middle of a full body off restoration. He’s tapping on 70. He’s restored many, many cars. If he went to university, not trade school, he’s surely done alright.   I’ve seen his work. Its great. I figure If he can do this, I gotta try too. He’s inspirational at the least. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by keithb7

[keithb7]

I am reminded again on the simplicity of these old automobiles.  So many parts are interchangeable.

 

I had ordered a kit to rebuild my fuel pump. I’d never done it before. Why not try? It’s 1930’s engineering, it can’t be too hard I figured.  They had mastered the pumps back then. Yet 90 years later, humans can’t get the rebuild parts right. Lol. 
 

The kit I ordered was almost right. The valves that came in the rebuild kit were not the press -in type. The ones I received are the slightly smaller diameter, held in with retainer and screw, type.  Arrgh...Lol. The trials we must endear for these old cars. 
 

Since local folks found out that there’s a new mopar nut in town they seem to be tossing old fuel pumps my way. I found 7 kicking around here. Different arms. Different glass bowls. Some no bowls. Between the various pumps, I may have a built a franken-pump that will work, and utilize all the parts in my rebuild kit.  I have to soak the head at least overnight in carb cleaner. It was full of dry, cream colored dust. Like it just came out of Bryce Canyon. Rotten fuel left in there I guess. For 50 years probably. 

 

Is there any reason why they dropped the glass bowls? I think they look cool. I’d like to utilize one. Looks like it’ll fit. 
 

I was about to re-instal the oil pan tonight. Then I thought, I might as well clean the pump pick up screen. I removed it and pried the cover off. I found a nice mess of sludge under there. Glad I found it and cleaned it out.
 

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by keithb7

[Young Ed]

Did you order your kit by pump # or just model of car? Because the pumps all interchange people swapped them around a lot. I would guess the glass was dropped for cost savings.

[westaus29]

Hey Keith you asked a question about shocks on my 38 7 pass Plymouth. I just posted dimensions on Andydodge's post about shocks. The front and rear shocks are identical dimensions, the only difference is the rear shocks have stone deflection plates above the lower mounting

[keithb7]

6 hours ago, Young Ed said:

Did you order your kit by pump # or just model of car? Because the pumps all interchange people swapped them around a lot. I would guess the glass was dropped for cost savings.

Looked at all the various pump kits on Ebay. Found the closest I could. I rolled the dice. Kit quality seems good.  The valve diameters were the only difference. In the past 82 years there’s a very great chance a lot of fuel pump swapping has occurred on my car. 

I seem to have about a 50/50 chance of getting correct parts from the other mainstream supplier I use. Ebay was a good a choice it seemed. Freight was much less. Fortunately I had lots of spare parts to make it work. 
 

Today I have my glass bowl pump dream fulfilled. Mounted and ready. Will it work? I think so. We’ll see. I think I am happiest about the fact I was able to make this kit work, and not have to wait 2 weeks for another trial rebuilt kit to arrive. 
 

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by keithb7

[keithb7]

It seems my rebuilt fuel pump works great. Too good. It’s over fueling the carb. There’s fuel coming out anywhere it can at the carb. Flooding the engine too. 
 

I’ll check the float although it worked fine with the 6V pump.  I shouldn’t need a regulator,  correct?  Stock type pump see above. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by keithb7

[Jerry Roberts]

No you shouldn't need a regulator .  Do you have a vacuum gauge ?  Most vacuum gauges an option to measure fuel pump pressure too .  

[keithb7]

Thanks for your reply Jerry.  I did measure my fuel pump pressure. It is about 3.75 psi. Which I believe is about right. I have taken the carb apart to inspect the bowl and float system. I did not see anything abnormal. The float seems to be working properly. The float pin, the retainer spring and needle valve all appear to be moving freely. I reassembled and stated the car. After a minute or two fuel is seeping out of the carb, anywhere it can. Something is wrong. I'll get in there again and inspect further. Perhaps something is stuck at  the float needle valve seat base. I did not pull that seat out and closely inspect.

Edited April 6, 2020 by keithb7

[keithb7]

I pulled the main fuel inlet fitting at the bowl today. To have a further good look. I tossed this problem around in my head while I layed in bed last night. Had to be something in the inlet valve I figured. 
 

I slid out the inlet fuel valve. Its the newer flat silicone type. As opposed to the older needle type design. I found a small black piece of some foreign material in there. Maybe came up from the fuel line after the pump? Maybe it was something in my pump that a never saw when I rebuilt it? So small, yet obstructing the valve from closing. Just enough it seems. Then fuel continued to pour in at 3.7 psi. Flooding everything.  The screen in the pump will likely prevent any future foreign  crap from getting past it, up to the carb. I'll be running a fuel filter as well.
 

A good reminder, something so small can really screw with your fuel system.  Many a good man has scratched his head over similar fuel related issues I’m sure. 
 

Pics just for good measure:

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by keithb7

[dpollo]

I had a similar problem on a customer's 42 Plymouth.  A little curl of metal probably caused by threading the brass fitting into the fuel pump lodged itself on the needle valve's seat.  This occurred on a club tour to Vernon BC.    I repaired it, much to my relief in a motel parking lot in Vernon

[keithb7]

Fighting vapor lock over the past two evenings. I have not ventured too far from home. I’ve been very lucky and both nights when it occurred, I was slightly uphill. I was able to coast back into my driveway. From a fair distance mind you. Very lucky...

 

I located a 90 deg fitting today. I put it at the pump input side. I then built a new solid line getting the intake line further away from the block.  I idled the engine for about 45 mins today. Tweaking. Tuning. Testing with a laser thermometer. I decided  to try my luck driving around the block again. 10 mins later, I’m dead. Coasting home again.  I took a reading of 135F on the top of the fuel pump, soon after it died. 

 

90 mins later It still won’t pull fuel. I’ve since removed the heat shield over the pump from my ‘53!Chrysler and installed it on my ‘38. Tomorrow evening we’ll repeat the exercise with the heat shield. See what happens. Hopefully I will get a 3rd chance to coast home. 
 

Last night it cooled down and purred after a few hours of cool down. Still waiting here now. 
 

I’m sure the 20% ethanol is a leading factor here. I have a 6V pump ready to install. I’m stubborn and hoped I could get the stock system working properly. Still hoping to. By Saturday the 6V pump will be in, if we fail to improve. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by keithb7

[dpollo]

sounds to me like you have a non vented cap on the fuel tank and without air going in, gas cannot come out.

[keithb7]

I'll have a look! Thanks.

[keithb7]

The tiny button in the centre is spring loaded. I’m unsure. Is this cap vented?

 

Pouring raw fuel in the carb it’ll run for a few seconds then die. Hoping  this would prime the fuel pump. No go yet. About 4-5 times doing this. No prime yet. Pump glass bowl is full to the top.  Did the same last night, then flashed up like a dream this afternoon.  As described above. 
 

 

[RobertKB]

Looks like a vented cap to me. Mine all have the same spring loaded centre. Heat shield may help but I'm thinking it is something else but no real idea what. Good luck getting it sorted.

[keithb7]

Engine flashed up instantly, running like a champ this morning. After everything had a good opportunity to cool down I assume. 

I do also have a heat shield/spacer plate between the carb base and the manifolds. As illustrated a few posts above in my carb pic.

Will try again this afternoon, afterwork, heat the car up good with the heat shield on, and see what happens.

Edited April 8, 2020 by keithb7

[Tim Larson]

It could be a coil issue. My '49 runs great after having changed the coil last summer. 

 

I know it sounds too easy, but it worked for me. I did replace my fuel pump with a brand new one just as a precaution - yes, I kept the old dual action pump!

[keithb7]

My 6V coil is new. Replaced last fall with maybe an hour idle/drive time on it so far. If it was the coil, the engine would not run briefly when I poured raw fuel into the carb. It does indeed run when I do this. However the pump cannot move fuel and the engine stalls within few seconds of run time. Burning the raw fuel I dumped in.

[Jerry Roberts]

16 hours ago, keithb7 said:

The tiny button in the centre is spring loaded. I’m unsure. Is this cap vented?

When in doubt , try running without the cap on , just for a test . 

[keithb7]

Boy we’re having fun here. That’s my fuel needle valve at the bowl inlet. Feels like a skim of grey silicone. Not sure where it came from. Fuel filter has been off while I finalize fuel line layout. Its going back on now. 
 

 

[RobertKB]

27 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Boy we’re having fun here. That’s my fuel needle valve at the bowl inlet. Feels like a skim of grey silicone. Not sure where it came from. Fuel filter has been off while I finalize fuel line layout. Its going back on now. 
 

 

That looks gross and could be your problem. Good luck!