1940 Radiator aftermarket adapted?

[40desoto]

Just wondering if anyone has successfully adapted an aftermarket more modern radiator to a 1940 car.  This is assuming all 1940 mopar cars use the same radiator design.

I took my original one to a shop and the price they quoted was pretty steep.  Ive never researched this topic before as I simply assumed I can get it fixed for no more than $200 if needed.

As I began researching this week Ive realized that most aftermarket radiators, even thought most dimensions are correct, do not have the overlapping top tank in order for the filler neck to clear the radiator mouting bracket at the top.

 

What other years have this same overlapping tank design?

 

About 4 years ago I ran my old engine with this radiator and didnt notice any water leaking but did notice a small coolant stain towards the bottom area of the honeycombs.

 

Heres what the shop offered and stated;

the radiator has a honeycomb 3 row style that they will replace with a vertical, 4 row core, add a bottom return tube made out of brass (the existing one is about 1/2 corroded)

make a pressurized system.

 

 

[Andydodge]

Tho' it doesn't directly help you I have been using a radiator that the local radiator shop made up using a radiator from a late model Oz GM Holden, they used the Holden core but its mounted vertically and modified the tanks to suit my car which is a 1940 Oz Dodge, Plymouth based.......as far as I know the actual radiator surround is similar in all 1940 6 cylinder mopars, the radiator shop used a separate filler neck thats offset to the side as shown..........dunno if this helps, I'd assume that there would be a number of late model radiators available to pick from in the US, however cost maybe the issue.......a number of guys on the forum have used aftermarket "Champion" brand alloy radiators that appear to work quite well.......regards from Oz..........andyd    

[desoto1939]

The early desoto and Mopar did not have a pressurized system. So I would call them again to make sure they know this information. You should not, again should not use a Presurised radiator cap use a regular radiator cap and it should be an R3 cap that is a standard cap for your car.   I have a 39 Desoto and it is the same honeycomb radiator and the same cap.  You can get the R3 cap on ebay.

 

I have a lot of cross refence catalog for your car contact me at desoto1939@aol.com

 

rich hartung

[40desoto]

47 minutes ago, desoto1939 said:

The early desoto and Mopar did not have a pressurized system. So I would call them again to make sure they know this information. You should not, again should not use a Presurised radiator cap use a regular radiator cap and it should be an R3 cap that is a standard cap for your car.   I have a 39 Desoto and it is the same honeycomb radiator and the same cap.  You can get the R3 cap on ebay.

 

I have a lot of cross refence catalog for your car contact me at desoto1939@aol.com

 

rich hartung

The shop owner recommended that he modifies it to make it a pressurized radiator.  Does this make sense?

[desoto1939]

Just now, 40desoto said:

The shop owner recommended that he modifies it to make it a pressurized radiator.  Does this make sense?

You do not have a pressurized system > I would ask him my a pressurized system?  It is because he is goingto a new radiator but I stillthink he is not correct.  Ask more questions of the group before making the change.

 

Rich Hartung

[knuckleharley]

25 minutes ago, 40desoto said:

The shop owner recommended that he modifies it to make it a pressurized radiator.  Does this make sense?

I put a Champion aluminum radiator in one of my 51 Fords because a new copper and brass radiator for it was north of 800 bucks,and the new Champion aluminum radiator was right at 200 bucks. IIRC,I put a 3 or 4 psi radiator cap on it to be on the safe side. A higher pressure means it is less likely to run hot,but since I am running all this hot water through a heater.defrost system that is 70 years old and built for zero to 4 psi of pressure,I decided a low pressure cap was the safe way to go.

 

I had previously ordered a "direct replacement copper and brass radiator" from US Radiator in California,paid 640 bucks for it,and waited 4 weeks for it to be built and shipped to me. This was for my 51 Ford 6 cylinder coupe,and I had called them on the phone and told them I wanted an EXACT replica of the original radiator,and was assured this was an exact replacement.

 

When it came in a month later the bottom spout was wrong and dumped right into the fuel pump.  I called US Radiator and talked to the guy about this,he told me I could send it back,wait 4 weeks plus the time it took to ship it to Ca,and he would send me another one. I did this,meaning I couldn't drive the car for two months,and when the new radiator came in the bottom outlet was right,but the filler neck was too short and too small for the original radiator cap to fit. When I called to complain about this,the guy laughed and told me."Oh,yeah. We switched over to a modern filler neck a while back to modern caps will fit it,and you can now run up to a 15 psi radiator cap on it." Which really pissed me off because I wanted to keep it looking "1950's",but wasn't about to repeat this process and wait another 4 to 6 weeks for another replacement,providing they could even replace it because it would have to be a special order to have the right neck. So I put it in the car,and will eventually have a radiator shop change the neck to the right one while running a low-pressure cap.

 

I will NEVER buy anything from US Radiator in Ca again.

 

If this interests you,contract Champion or one of the Champion dealers on ebay and see if they have a direct replacement radiator that will fit your car with no modifications,and order it.

[Don Coatney]

What I discovered when I installed a new 3 core aluminum radiator was that the cooling efficiency of the new radiator was much greater than the original honeycomb radiator. Adding a pressurized cap will also increase the boiling point of a liquid but the increased efficiency of the new radiator even running a 180 degree thermostat never allowed the radiator to boil over. I also eliminated the belt driven cooling fan and used a thermostatically controlled electric pusher fan. One downfall of converting to a pressurized system is the welsh plugs are not designed for a pressurized system. I personally did not have a welsh plug failure but the possibility is there. 

 

[Jerry Roberts]

1 hour ago, 40desoto said:

The shop owner recommended that he modifies it to make it a pressurized radiator.  Does this make sense?

You can run the pressurized aluminum radiator with a non-pressure cap , that is what I am doing with my truck and it runs at 160 degrees .       

 

[kencombs]

35 minutes ago, Don Coatney said:

What I discovered when I installed a new 3 core aluminum radiator was that the cooling efficiency of the new radiator was much greater than the original honeycomb radiator. Adding a pressurized cap will also increase the boiling point of a liquid but the increased efficiency of the new radiator even running a 180 degree thermostat never allowed the radiator to boil over. I also eliminated the belt driven cooling fan and used a thermostatically controlled electric pusher fan. One downfall of converting to a pressurized system is the welsh plugs are not designed for a pressurized system. I personally did not have a welsh plug failure but the possibility is there. 

 

I wouldn’t worry about the core plugs. The exact same plug was used on every 265-350 Chevy v8 with pressurized systems for over 30 years.   Good install practices, properly seated, ‘dimpled’ properly, good sealant coverage etc and they should be fine

[PT81Jan]

20 hours ago, 40desoto said:

... I took my original one to a shop and the price they quoted was pretty steep.  Ive never researched this topic before as I simply assumed I can get it fixed for no more than $200 if needed....

 .... didnt notice any water leaking but did notice a small coolant stain towards the bottom area of the honeycombs.....

 

Not an answer regarding your aftermarket replacement question, but if I understood you right, you would prefer to keep your original radiator !?

Mine already started to mark the territory out of two places of the honeycombs. I had good success repairing the original radiator myself.

How ?

My first thought was to solder it, but after the research it was more likely to damage it even more that way.

Every info source I found recommended a 2-component adhesive.

After emptying and pulling the radiator, I had to dry the leaking areas. Therefor I used a hairdryer. That process showed at least 15 - 20 (!) more places which were leaky. Super little but potential candidates to get larger. The warm air dried the honeycombs but the capillarity soaked the rest moisture out trough the tiny fissures. I marked them with a paint pen and dried it until no moisture came out (patience ...). Then I carefully cleaned the places with paint thinner and applied the 2-c adhesive with a brush (I used UHU Plus).

(Not too thick, it will run away. In doubt do it in two steps)

A bit of warm blow dryer air helps to make the adhesive temporary a bit thinner, so it better soaks into the fissures in the honeycombs. Finally painted the rad with a spray can.

The repair was about 1 ½   years ago, no leaks anymore since then. Costs about 20€ / 23$. Maybe worth an attempt ...

[40desoto]

20 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

I put a Champion aluminum radiator in one of my 51 Fords because a new copper and brass radiator for it was north of 800 bucks,and the new Champion aluminum radiator was right at 200 bucks. IIRC,I put a 3 or 4 psi radiator cap on it to be on the safe side. A higher pressure means it is less likely to run hot,but since I am running all this hot water through a heater.defrost system that is 70 years old and built for zero to 4 psi of pressure,I decided a low pressure cap was the safe way to go.

 

I had previously ordered a "direct replacement copper and brass radiator" from US Radiator in California,paid 640 bucks for it,and waited 4 weeks for it to be built and shipped to me. This was for my 51 Ford 6 cylinder coupe,and I had called them on the phone and told them I wanted an EXACT replica of the original radiator,and was assured this was an exact replacement.

 

When it came in a month later the bottom spout was wrong and dumped right into the fuel pump.  I called US Radiator and talked to the guy about this,he told me I could send it back,wait 4 weeks plus the time it took to ship it to Ca,and he would send me another one. I did this,meaning I couldn't drive the car for two months,and when the new radiator came in the bottom outlet was right,but the filler neck was too short and too small for the original radiator cap to fit. When I called to complain about this,the guy laughed and told me."Oh,yeah. We switched over to a modern filler neck a while back to modern caps will fit it,and you can now run up to a 15 psi radiator cap on it." Which really pissed me off because I wanted to keep it looking "1950's",but wasn't about to repeat this process and wait another 4 to 6 weeks for another replacement,providing they could even replace it because it would have to be a special order to have the right neck. So I put it in the car,and will eventually have a radiator shop change the neck to the right one while running a low-pressure cap.

 

I will NEVER buy anything from US Radiator in Ca again.

 

If this interests you,contract Champion or one of the Champion dealers on ebay and see if they have a direct replacement radiator that will fit your car with no modifications,and order it.

Ive had a similar experience with US radiators a few years back but couldnt complain because they are affordable and carry many classic popular model car radiators.  This was for 60’s chevelles and Nova’s . 

[The Oil Soup]

I have a champion radiator on my truck and it works great. You can get on their website and peruse the dimensions for your application. The radiator they recommend for my truck was incorrect and I found one for a car that is slightly smaller than stock and fit with some bracket modifications. I believe it is the same model Don C.has on his car.

[busycoupe]

PT81-Jan, what two part adhesive did you use?  was it a type of epoxy? 

Thanks,

Dave

[40desoto]

6 hours ago, PT81Jan said:

 

Not an answer regarding your aftermarket replacement question, but if I understood you right, you would prefer to keep your original radiator !?

Mine already started to mark the territory out of two places of the honeycombs. I had good success repairing the original radiator myself.

How ?

My first thought was to solder it, but after the research it was more likely to damage it even more that way.

Every info source I found recommended a 2-component adhesive.

After emptying and pulling the radiator, I had to dry the leaking areas. Therefor I used a hairdryer. That process showed at least 15 - 20 (!) more places which were leaky. Super little but potential candidates to get larger. The warm air dried the honeycombs but the capillarity soaked the rest moisture out trough the tiny fissures. I marked them with a paint pen and dried it until no moisture came out (patience ...). Then I carefully cleaned the places with paint thinner and applied the 2-c adhesive with a brush (I used UHU Plus).

(Not too thick, it will run away. In doubt do it in two steps)

A bit of warm blow dryer air helps to make the adhesive temporary a bit thinner, so it better soaks into the fissures in the honeycombs. Finally painted the rad with a spray can.

The repair was about 1 ½   years ago, no leaks anymore since then. Costs about 20€ / 23$. Maybe worth an attempt ...

Thank you PT81!  This is what I was thinking of doind since Im assuming they are only small pinhole holes.  But them again I would hate for it fail and have to take it out at a later time.  Looks like a PITA to take out

[Dodgeb4ya]

On 12/29/2018 at 3:58 PM, kencombs said:

I wouldn’t worry about the core plugs. The exact same plug was used on every 265-350 Chevy v8 with pressurized systems for over 30 years.   Good install practices, properly seated, ‘dimpled’ properly, good sealant coverage etc and they should be fine

That's good to know that Chevy 265-350 V8 core plugs are the same as a Mopar flathead.?

[PT81Jan]

8 hours ago, busycoupe said:

PT81-Jan, what two part adhesive did you use?  was it a type of epoxy? 

Thanks,

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

as mentioned above I used UHU Plus -> http://www.uhu.com/en/products/epoxy-adhesives-2-component/detail/uhu-plus-endfest-3002-k-epoxidharzkleber-1.html?cHash=70cb5d93b5a76faed4b9eb03ed1cf9eb

I don`t know, if this is available in the US but I am sure there are comparable products.

Have a look on:

1. on which stuff it is resistant against (Epoxy is resistant against most stuff that we use in our vehicles)

2. the temperature range in use (mine is -40°F to at least 212°F -> I wouldn`t worry with that upper limit, / short term is 356°F )

Jan

 

7 hours ago, 40desoto said:

Thank you PT81!  This is what I was thinking of doind since Im assuming they are only small pinhole holes.  But them again I would hate for it fail and have to take it out at a later time.  Looks like a PITA to take out

 

Hi 40desoto,

yupp, I also would have hated it to do it twice. I cannot guarantee, if that works for you. Depending on the condition of your radiator ... for me it absolutely has been worth the attempt. Not really difficult to fix and not much money spent. Still good up to now.

Ah and although PITA´s seems to be resistant against high temperatures and water steam, I wouldn`t use it as a radiator ?

"... most pita are baked at high temperatures (450–475 °F (232–246 °C)), which turns the water in the dough into steam ...." (WIKIPEDIA)

Jan

[busycoupe]

Thanks, my radiator core has several spots that weep slowly.  i will check it when the weather warms up and if they get worse I will try your repair method.

[40desoto]

10 hours ago, PT81Jan said:

 

Hi Dave,

as mentioned above I used UHU Plus -> http://www.uhu.com/en/products/epoxy-adhesives-2-component/detail/uhu-plus-endfest-3002-k-epoxidharzkleber-1.html?cHash=70cb5d93b5a76faed4b9eb03ed1cf9eb

I don`t know, if this is available in the US but I am sure there are comparable products.

Have a look on:

1. on which stuff it is resistant against (Epoxy is resistant against most stuff that we use in our vehicles)

2. the temperature range in use (mine is -40°F to at least 212°F -> I wouldn`t worry with that upper limit, / short term is 356°F )

Jan

 

 

Hi 40desoto,

yupp, I also would have hated it to do it twice. I cannot guarantee, if that works for you. Depending on the condition of your radiator ... for me it absolutely has been worth the attempt. Not really difficult to fix and not much money spent. Still good up to now.

Ah and although PITA´s seems to be resistant against high temperatures and water steam, I wouldn`t use it as a radiator ?

"... most pita are baked at high temperatures (450–475 °F (232–246 °C)), which turns the water in the dough into steam ...." (WIKIPEDIA)

Jan

Thank you.   By PITA I meant Pain in the ass .  LOL

[40desoto]

I just got off the phone with a rep at Champion Radiator.  They have a universal one that might fit my application the only thing is that it has the upper hose inlet towards the drivers side vs the center. 

Its a little shorter in that the original.

I asked about the pressurized vs non- pressurized system and he recommended that I get a really low pressure cap so its doesn't blow out any caps or cause any leakage elsewhere.

 

[kencombs]

The heater core would be the only likely source of damage from added pressure IMO.  It may be worth swapping in a later core, new hoses etc and going to the higher pressure with a matching higher temp thermostat.   Engines are much more efficient at higher temps, as long as the temp doesn't exceed the gasket, piston  or ring capability.  At least, that's my logic for my project truck.

[DJ194950]

I have two old Plymouths with Champion radiators in them and run #7 pressure radiator caps on them with no problems. Got these from Napa Auto Parts.

 

As low as #4 LB. are available but need to be ordered.  Also avail. on the web.

 

PS. run a catch bottle like newer cars that will keep the radiator full. Just like a newer cars do not remove the cap to check fluid level -just check the overflow bottle and keep at about 1/2 full.

 

DJ

Edited December 31, 2018 by DJ194950
Add catch bottle info.

[40desoto]

8 minutes ago, DJ194950 said:

I have two old Plymouths with Champion radiators in them and run #7 pressure radiator caps on them with no problems. Got these from Napa Auto Parts.

 

As low as #4 LB. are available but need to be ordered.  Also avail. on the web.

 

PS. run a catch bottle like newer cars that will keep the radiator full. Just like a newer cars do not remove the cap to check fluid level -just check the overflow bottle and keep at about 1/2 full.

 

DJ

Thank you DJ.  Does your Champion  radiator have the upper hose in the middle or towards the side?

[DJ194950]

It is in the middle like original but turned downward too much. Cut off some and added and stainless steel pipe midway between the radiator and motor. See Don Courtney's post on this issue (same one) and how he dealt with same just using some creative searching in his local parts store. This was quite a few years back. I,m sure he still has his pics and he took 100,s!

?

 

According to Champions  website they can modify any of their radiators to suit on special order and cost/time.

 

DJ

[Don Coatney]

 

 

 

 

[The Oil Soup]

I had to do the same as Don did to install my radiator which I believe is a cc4749 champion. The one they recommend for a B4B has the filler centered on the top tank, no good!