The D.C. P15 Update

[Plymouthy Adams]

until you think electrolysis...zinc often is the very sacrificial metal strapped to submarines and ships hull to save the real metal.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Plymouthy Adams

[Dodgeb4ya]

They used to plate nails with a good quality thick plate coat of zinc or galvanizing. In a lot of products sold today not nearly so good .

Is the electro coating .005MM or .025MM....probably the lower thickness now days compared to 30 years ago.

Cadmium was also used on core plugs but is a EPA issue now days .Still used by the military though.

 

[mrwrstory]

That progress?

[HotRodTractor]

5 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

until you think electrolysis...zinc often is the very sacrificial metal strapped to submarines and ships hull to save the real metal.

 

I'd have to look up the charts again, but I thought brass was more likely to corrode than zinc in this instance. Could be wrong and remembering incorrectly.

[Los_Control]

1 minute ago, mrwrstory said:

That progress?

Back when I use to be a manager in a tire retread shop, we had over $250k in equipment to maintain.

One day I asked the mechanic who flew 2k miles to come work on our $30k buffer

 

Why is that silly brass screw block in there.

Cant we make something stronger to make it last longer?

 

Answer was, this shaft will cost you over $5k to replace, This sacrificial brass screw block will cost you $200 plus labor ..... which do you want to replace?

 

cars and machinery is actually engineered to have a sacrificial piece.

And in a flathead dodge, the welch plugs is one of the pieces. Cheap and simple to replace.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I know one thing..you do not want to drop a sacrificial cathodic weld on hunk of zinc that they put on submarines on your foot....

[greg g]

Ok wait!  We put zinc coating on steel to protect it from corrosion through the process of galvinization.  But we screw a chunk of zinc to submarine so it attracts the corrosive components to the zinc?  Howzat work?

[Plymouthy Adams]

2 hours ago, greg g said:

Ok wait!  …….... Howzat work?

 

apparently, very well..!

[DJ194950]

Maybe a complete explanation from someone who certainly know more than I.  ?

 

DJ

 

 

how-do-sacrificial-anodes-work.html

[T120]

I wouldn't attempt to explain - however the term  "cathodic" protection has come up on this forum in the past, and there is a far better explanation available on the web than I could offer ...☺️

[Plymouthy Adams]

if you want the straight skinny...read a white paper..if you want to jaw and jerk around and still be in the dark,..continue on a forum....

[greg g]

Like the man at the next booth at the dinner said the other day to his collegue, " I told him, while I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you!"

[HotRodTractor]

Well I hope you all are happy. I had to go into storage to pull out some light reading.

 

 

Just shy of 1400 pages of fun.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Now we will find out the whole truth and nothing but....

[HotRodTractor]

OK - long story made short:

 

I put a new freeze plug in and it still has a small coolant dribble right at the bottom - just enough to make the area under the plug damp after bouncing around town for an hour or so. I'm going to leave it until this winter when I can pull the engine and do it correctly out on a stand. It was actually kind of pain even on this "easy to access" location.

 

Also: if you use brass plugs - the cast iron corrodes. If you use zinc plated plugs - the zinc corrodes, but not nearly as bad or as fast as they are much closer together in the galvanic series. I could give an exact ratio... but I'm mathed out for the week.

 

I've got a road trip up I-71 tomorrow with the Plymouth. I'm hoping it doesn't rain too badly.... Going up to visit the GF's family.

[Dodgeb4ya]

JB weld and brass... won't leak...done many on all types of MoPar engines corroded or not. Marine an absolute must... brass

No corrosion issues ever .... JMO ?

[HotRodTractor]

4 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

JB weld and brass... won't leak...done many on all types of MoPar engines corroded or not. Marine an absolute must... brass

No corrosion issues ever .... JMO ?

 

 

 

JB Weld eh? I was thinking some kind of sealer... but wasn't quite going to make the jump to JB Weld. Maybe I should.

 

I was thinking of using a variant of green Loctite. I don't recall the number off the top of my head, but I spec'd it out for an application at work and it will seal a 0.015" gap if need be once cured. (It might be 680??? - I'd have to look it back up again to be sure)

[HotRodTractor]

Over 250 miles on the car this weekend. Over 15mpg on the trip up, I haven't filled up to figure out what the mileage was on the trip back. Cruised at 80 most of the way up and back on the interstate with some spirited spurts above that to get around traffic.

 

I had what felt like some heat related issues on the way back hitting some stop lights just off the interstate after everything is thoroughly heat soaked. Just off idle with a load leaving a light lead to a fair bit of stumbling. Not sure if it was the gas I got in Ashland, or if it was just heat, or something else. We stopped and got some ice cream and let the car sit for a few minutes with the hood popped. The symptoms went away after that, but I was within 20 miles from home. It was very apparent the gas was expanding out of the carbs while stopped. They became wet around the float bowl gaskets and the smell was noticeable. I need to check the floats, and I need to prioritize my little thermal camera experiment as is, as well as with phenolic spacers.

 

All in all - a fantastic trip - and the car really ran great overall, even with the minor off idle stumble once it was heat soaked. The GF's family thought it was cool.

 

I feel I should clarify the heat soak term I am using - the car normally runs about 190F give or take a bit. After 45 minutes to an hour at 80mph, the temp slowly starts to climb, but then stops climbing at about 205. Jump off the interstate and immediately sit at a light and you'll see 210, but never higher.

 

Oh - and I saw some coolant seepage at the base of one of the untouched freeze plugs while stopped. Its just enough to make it wet and see the green. The tank looks nearly full once the car cooled back down and I could take a look.

[Plymouthy Adams]

that is basically normal saturation….even new cars will creep when coming off an interstate run of distance.....you may want to tweak you cooling fan to come on a bit earlier.....and if it has been tweaked..it may need an increase in CFM based on the manner you wish to run...  All in all, sounds like a you did very well...many here will not run above 60MPH.....lol

[HotRodTractor]

Just now, Plymouthy Adams said:

that is basically normal saturation….even new cars will creep when coming off an interstate run of distance.....you may want to tweak you cooling fan to come on a bit earlier.....and if it has been tweaked..it may need an increase in CFM based on the manner you wish to run...  All in all, sounds like a you did very well...many here will not run above 60MPH.....lol

 

Yeah - The temp didn't bother me as much as the stumbling did. The GF was a bit freaked out that it was going to die and leave us stranded. I just made sure I was holding the RPMs up while sitting and and reving it up higher than needed while I slipped the clutch out leaving a light. Once moving and above say 1200 or 1500 RPMs it was happy.

 

More CFMs on the electric fan was certainly something I was already thinking about. The cooling fan is already on at 180, so it never shut off while running down the interstate or once I got off. More flow while at low speeds or stopped at a light would definitely help though.

 

The GF told me to slow down on the interstate..... so it goes fast enough.

[Plymouthy Adams]

The GF probably tells you to slow down on  other things as well...…………….?

[HotRodTractor]

1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

The GF probably tells you to slow down on  other things as well...…………….?

 

Slow down, speed up, it seems they always want the opposite of whatever you are doing at the time.

[55 Fargo]

How bout a fuel return line to the gas tank, bet that would take care of it.

Seepage off another welch plug geesh replace em all and be thankful its not the rear plug 

Jim aka Squirrel on the HAMB drove his beater 51 Hudson to speedweek from Phoenix then onto the Lemons race and he took 1st place and it was super hot like your area.

Your car has had heat issues runnin highway speeds in hot weather many times before as reported by its former owner. Not so untypical of these engines 

I bet return fuel line might help..

Edited August 19, 2019 by 55 Fargo

[HotRodTractor]

11 hours ago, 55 Fargo said:

How bout a fuel return line to the gas tank, bet that would take care of it.

Seepage off another welch plug geesh replace em all and be thankful its not the rear plug 

Jim aka Squirrel on the HAMB drove his beater 51 Hudson to speedweek from Phoenix then onto the Lemons race and he took 1st place and it was super hot like your area.

Your car has had heat issues runnin highway speeds in hot weather many times before as reported by its former owner. Not so untypical of these engines 

I bet return fuel line might help..

 

 

I've thought about adding a return line - it would certainly help with a vapor lock situation if nothing else. Also - a cooler in the return line is a must.

 

I'm going to pull the engine and all the plugs this winter. Its not enough to cause issues, or to loose a noticeable amount of coolant. Plus I can slap some new paint on the engine as the paint that is on it is getting tired.

 

I need to read Squirrel's thread - I have it marked, but haven't had a chance.

[Adam H P15 D30]

Yes, read Squirrel's thread from this year and try to find last years thread also.  I recall Don saying he had some temp issues but I also recall him saying they were cured with the new radiator.  My 49 almost never hits 190 and it has the stock honeycomb radiator.  What thermostat is in there?  Think about going back to a 160 and adjust your cooling fan accordingly if there is a hotter one in there.  I use a fan switch that comes on at 185 and off at 175.

 

Adam