My First Car -- P15 1947 Plymouth Deluxe

[DadRchmnd]

On 5/8/2021 at 1:34 PM, NickPickToo said:

I'm trying to wire the heater fan.  I’ve bench tested the fan directly to a 6 v battery and it works well.   I purchased a 12 to 6 v reducer (5 amp) from YnZ that indicates use for heater fans etc.  However when I connect to the reducer the fan turns, but very slowly almost like it’s not pulling enough power.  I've tested it from the fan straight to the reducer as well as from the reducer through the dash switch to the fan and it's still the same.  The fan just barely turns.     Is 5 amps enough on these old heater fans or could there be an issue with how we have set up the reducer?

At 6volt, 5 amps doesn't seem like it'd be enough, and you're bench test of working direct to a battery but not through the reducer also leads me to think that is the issue. I don't know what the proper amperage should be though, does the fan have a watt rating on it at all? That is the easiest way to figure out the amps needed. Right now you have 30watts, not accounting for resistance of the electrical lines to the fan, or any other junctions that would reduce the raw wattage. 

[greg g]

Keep in mind most heater switches already use resistance to provide different output volts to provide the three speeds of the fan.  I have e not put a volt meter on a six volt switch but you gotta know high speed is getting the full system voltage.  Do guessing low and medium are 3 and 5 volts to the motor.  With a 12 v system the fan is likely getting 5 volts at low speed maybe 8 at medium and 12 at high-speed.  So if you are putting a resister after the switch you are doubling resistance.  Maybe check the output voltage with the 12v switch..  If it's in the 5 to seven volt area on medium, just wire it to the 6v fan and don't use the high speed setting

[NickPickToo]

4 hours ago, DadRchmnd said:

At 6volt, 5 amps doesn't seem like it'd be enough, and you're bench test of working direct to a battery but not through the reducer also leads me to think that is the issue. I don't know what the proper amperage should be though, does the fan have a watt rating on it at all? That is the easiest way to figure out the amps needed. Right now you have 30watts, not accounting for resistance of the electrical lines to the fan, or any other junctions that would reduce the raw wattage. 

I do not see an amp rating on the fan.  Its a Redmond and marked '1605' on the outside near the baring and shaft.  There is a faded 72 in yellowish green script on the side.  Again it runs like new in a bench test and is very quite other than the wind noise, so I really want to keep it rather than switching to a 12 motor.

 

The switch we are using only has two settings.  Its vintage 6v, with the spark reduction '?stone?', but its not original to the car.  I have the switch wired after the reducer/resistor.  I have tried the fan straight off the reducer without the switch but I get the same results, very slow fan, so I strongly suspect its the reducer.  I have not tried the switch without the reducer.   I'll give that a try.  I have the reducer mounted on the fire wall with a finned cage over it that  I made from the regulator housing that is no longer needed with the 12 volt conversion.  It looks kind of cool, so I was hoping it would work.  

 

The heater core is original and when we took it out of the the housing so we could powder coat the housing we checked the flow(good) and checked for leaks under pressure (couldn't see or hear any), but again its pretty old.  Any suggested treatments prior to putting the core back into service?

[NickPickToo]

Dad just corrected me.  He tested the switch directly without the reducer and it worked well but with too much power.  12v at full and then closer to 9v at the first setting. 

[NickPickToo]

We tested the resistor with a load and it's resisting for sure.  Just a little too well.  Voltage drops to 2.9V.  Dad's trading emails with YnZ to figure out what's up.  For the record, we purchased the full wiring harness, alternator, horn relay and this resistor from YnZ and they have been supper helpful anytime we've had questions.  I have no doubt we will get this working here soon.  Not sure if there is a trick to adjusting the resistance this unit gives or if we just got one with too much resistance.

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by NickPickToo

[NickPickToo]

Looks cool, but completely a pain to get under the hood.

[junkers72]

It is what it is. Gotta get it on the road and can revisit this issue when time allows.  I’m sure you learned a lot on this major project. Keep up the good work.

[Adam H P15 D30]

Just change your heater fan out to 12 volts.  I used one from a 60s Dodge Dart, your results may vary

[NickPickToo]

1 hour ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Just change your heater fan out to 12 volts.  I used one from a 60s Dodge Dart, your results may vary

Yea, but... this one is very close to the motor used in the Voyagers I and II.  How can I in good conscience switch it out? 

[NickPickToo]

Question for Trim fasteners.  The belt line trim and side of hood use mostly the same clip in fasteners.  The exception is four fasteners on the hood side trim.  One in front and back of that piece on each side.  This one has a bolt down back.  Any leads on where to locate this? 

[Los_Control]

On 5/17/2021 at 11:30 AM, NickPickToo said:

Yea, but... this one is very close to the motor used in the Voyagers I and II.  How can I in good conscience switch it out? 

Sometimes in life we have to pick our battles and when to just  walk away and accept our losses.

 

What I am understanding is a conversation about keeping a existing electric motor.

While the electric motor can be replaced for Last I looked on ebay I could match the motor up  12 volt replacement for about $20.

Get a job and work 2 hours and can pay for a new working motor.

 

While if you are trying to produce a better replacement resistor  for sale, then you are on the right track.

You will fail a few times and then create something that works.

 

If you just want a electric motor that works ... I apologize now.  This photo does not impress me.

The mounting brackets are wrong, the wire on the right has a plastic crimp on connector ... The connector on the left looks same but shrink tubing on it?

What the heck is the crap in between the mounting brackets, if the rest is crap? & yes it does not work so we need to do it over.

 

I love this thread and been watching it.

Sometimes in life we just have to accept the limitations life throws at us.

I just ask you to think. Do I want to spend $50 and a few hours trying to create something ... or $20 and use something already created.

 

I know you are young ... at age 60 I often think about hours I spent on something stupid ... I can never get this time back and do things different today with my time.

I appreciate your time on this object .... Pick your battles and move on, life is to short for cheap non-working experimental electrical items. FWIW, I am using cheap rustoleum paint on my truck ... nothing fancy. I would pay $10 to keep this part away from my truck.

 

 

 

[NickPickToo]

24 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Pick your battles and move on, life is to short for cheap non-working experimental electrical items. FWIW, I am using cheap rustoleum paint on my truck ... nothing fancy. I would pay $10 to keep this part away from my truck.

 

I get it but....The wiring with the plastic bullet plug is just the fan wire temporarily setting there so I can move it around and see if I can get good current.  The other is similar but leads to the ignition switch.  Its a temporary set up so that I can confirm current before I make anything final.  Regarding that 'stuff' in the middle, we've had good success with YnZ on everything but this, and they are sending me a replacement free of charge.  They have stood behind everything they've sold us so far so I'll give it another shot before looking for a 12 fan.

 

 

[Los_Control]

You are 100% correct!. I like that ynz is sending a replacement and all should be happy.

 

Again I have to ask, what if you had a show car? Would you put that ynz resistor on it?

Honestly the mounting brackets just show poor quality. There should be a sealed cover over it ...  Nothing but shrink tube between the  cheap ass brackets ....  There is no quality shown.

 

@NickPickTooMy point is, in life you will run into many obstructions. There is no reason to hang onto the old motor.

Yet if you want to hang on to it, You can get it to work.

 

There is same advice for woman. If you have a few  woman that are cheap like ynz, kick em to the curb. Life is too short.  You do not need cheap reproductions for a car or a marriage.

 

[NickPickToo]

18 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

You are 100% correct!. I like that ynz is sending a replacement and all should be happy.

 

Again I have to ask, what if you had a show car? Would you put that ynz resistor on it?

Honestly the mounting brackets just show poor quality. There should be a sealed cover over it ...  Nothing but shrink tube between the  cheap ass brackets ....  There is no quality shown.

 

@NickPickTooMy point is, in life you will run into many obstructions. There is no reason to hang onto the old motor.

Yet if you want to hang on to it, You can get it to work.

 

There is same advice for woman. If you have a few  woman that are cheap like ynz, kick em to the curb. Life is too short.  You do not need cheap reproductions for a car or a marriage.

 

Just wait till you see the finned box I made to put over it out of the cover from the old regulator that was part of the original 6V system.  That's going to put it over the top ? 

[Los_Control]

13 minutes ago, NickPickToo said:

Just wait till you see the finned box I made to put over it out of the cover from the old regulator that was part of the original 6V system.  That's going to put it over the top ? 

You see where I am going? ...

finned box I made to put over it out of the cover from the old regulator

Not cool, was maybe in the 1960's but nobody impressed today.

 

Most people today would rather send these cars to the crusher .. creating a part with a 6 volt workings then a cover with a fancy ribbed  ... nobody cares .... These 6volt cars worked fine as they were designed. You want to switch to 12 volt, that works fine also. ...

 

If you already swapped to 12 volt, why are you wasting peoples time with a 6 volt motor .... Go talk to that girl you been thinking about.

 

[NickPickToo]

Your advice on cars is helpful.  The rest, well maybe it was cool in the 1960's.

[Adam H P15 D30]

Careful putting a cover over a hot resistor, they need to stay cool

[NickPickToo]

7 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Careful putting a cover over a hot resistor, they need to stay cool

The cover is not really a cover anymore.  Its more a cage and well ventilated.  Should the resistor blow it should catch some of the pieces.  That's just a theory I hope is never tested.

 

Got the fan to work today.  The replacement resistor from YnZ came in today as well as another small resistor.  Started with YnZ's and got the same results, voltage drop to just over 2 volts (engine off) and only a small slow creeping roll in the motor.  Two resistors same result, probably not the quality of the resistor.  Probably too much resistance.  The YnZ resistor is 3 ohms, 25 watts, 5 amp rated.  We purchased a 1 om, 50 watts, 10 amp rated resistor from speedway as well ($19.95) and that resulted in voltage at just over 6v and the fan sounds and runs great.  That means the problem was getting the correct resistance for the power needs of the fan.   I didn't know the amps or watts for the fan going in but now I calculate the fan is drawing 6 amps (Amps = Volts / ohms), 36 watts (Watts = Voltage^2 / Ohms) which is out of the rating for the YnZ resistor.

    

Edited May 19, 2021 by NickPickToo

[casper50]

Glad that you got it working.

[NickPickToo]

Anyone have experience with stock gas gage on 12V power?  Does it give good readings?

 

Found the following on one of those other sites.  Makes since to me.  Thoughts?

 

I have a couple of fuel gauges for the '55-'59 series GMC trucks. One is early '55.2 and is 6v, the other is later and is 12v. I measured the the resistance of the limiting and control coils in each and did a few calculations.

Rl = Resistance of the limiting coil (empty side)
Rc = Resistance of the control coil (full side)
Rs = Resistance of the sender = 0 - 30 ohms


6 volt gauge: Rl = 53 ohms, Rc = 30 ohms
12 volt gauge: Rl = 109 ohms, Rc = 30 ohms

The equivalent resistance of the sender and the control coil is the same for 12v and 6v. At the empty position the equivalent resistance is 0 ohms because the the resistance of the sender is 0 ohms. At the full position, we have two equal 30 ohm resistances (Rc and Rs) in parallel and the equivalent resistance is 15 ohms. We'll use Re for the equivalent resistance.


Maximum Current (empty gauge) (Volts/Ohms):
Imax = Voltage * (Rl + Re)

6 volt Imax = 6/(53 + 0) = 0.113 amps
12 volt Imax = 12/(109 + 0) = 0.110 amps

6 volt gauge on 12V = 12/(53 + 0) = .226 amps

Power in watts: P = I*I*R

6 volt Pmax = (0.113)*(0.113)*(53) = .667 watt
12 volt Pmax = (0.110)*(0.110)*(109) = 1.3189 watt

6 volt gauge on 12v
Pmax = (0.226)*(0.226)*(53) = 2.71 watts

I made this calculation years ago and based on the small amount of power (read heat) being generated decided that it would be safe to run the 6 volt gauge on 12 volts. I have run the gauge in my '49 truck many years on 12 volts without problems.

I suspect the leading cause of gauge failure is getting the source voltage onto either the sending unit wire or the control coil terminal on the back of the gauge. Most gauges have a red tag on the sending unit terminal warning against this.

 

  

Edited May 21, 2021 by NickPickToo

[Adam H P15 D30]

Just purchase a Runtz resistor from Speedway or Amazon for your fuel gauge.  Cheap and easy

[NickPick'sCrew]

Nicholas had hoped to have the P15 ready to drive to graduation today.  But just a bit shy of street legal still.  Should be ready to drive to a few of his classmates graduation parties.  Anyway he looks sharp in his graduation tux (the tradition at his school for graduation) and its a timeless look next to the P15.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by NickPick'sCrew

[sidevalvepete]

That's absolutely splendid. A toast to you all!!

[knuckleharley]

Being able to drive it to his graduation would have really been the "icing on his cake",wouldn't it?

 

I think I would have risked getting a ticket.

[NickPickToo]

On this day. Monday, May 24, 2021 at 3:30 pm.  I was able to get the brake lights to work properly My P15 1947 Plymouth 2 Door Sedan is now street legal ?