My First Car -- P15 1947 Plymouth Deluxe

[48ply1stcar]

11 minutes ago, NickPickToo said:

We are trying to install the transmission and having trouble getting the shaft to line up and go in.  does anyone have any tricks or tips they can share?

Long threaded rods to start your alignment, and replace them with the correct bolt.

Clutch disc teeth aligned?  Sometime it's easier to leave the pressure plate loose to lined up the transmission.

There is a alignment tool.

[NickPickToo]

3 minutes ago, 48ply1stcar said:

Long threaded rods to start your alignment, and replace them with the correct bolt.

Clutch disc teeth aligned?  Sometime it's easier to leave the pressure plate loose to lined up the transmission.

There is a alignment tool.

Thank you.  We have the clutch alignment tool and loosened the pressure plate.  I'll have to find these long threaded rods you speak of ?

[Eneto-55]

I think I recall you mentioning in the past that you had the clutch rebuilt, so this wouldn't be your problem, but on the first engine swap I did (where I was the one who said we could do it - my buddy had never done much mechanic work at all), we had FOUR pieces of threaded rod, AND a stabbing shaft out of another transmission to get the clutch lined up.  After laying on the dirt floor of the barn basement with the trannie on my chest, over & over trying to get it all the way in, we finally pulled the engine back out, installed the transmission that way, then reinstalled engine & trannie as a unit.   The guy I was doing this for later had to replace the clutch - discovered that the clutch spring plate was weak, and that is why every time we put a bit of weight on the clutch plate while trying to get the transmission shaft to line up with the pilot bearing, it pulled the clutch disk down out of place.  (This was even with the guide bolts in place, so that clutch was really weak.)

 

Edit to add: I just saw that you said that you loosened the clutch plate.  Maybe someone with more experience (or actual training - I just learned by watching my dad & older brother do it) will say that that is the way to do it, but the way I was taught was to depress the clutch while inserting the stabbing shaft, then release the clutch, and allow the clutch pressure plate to hold the disk in place while installing the transmission.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Eneto-55
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[Sam Buchanan]

Guide pins—grind flats on the pins (bolts) so you can use a wrench on them:

Edited February 6, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

what did you use to align the clutch to the crank shaft bushing and are  you certain the bushing is the correct size...I would suggest these checks before drawing tightly on any bolts.  A properly aligned disc to right size bush is a slip in...

[Merle Coggins]

I usually have good luck eyeballing the clutch alignment, then using guide pins as described earlier I get the trans started into the clutch. Once it gets to the pilot bushing and won’t quite go, depress the clutch pedal to release the clutch disc. It’ll usually slip right in. 

[NickPickToo]

9 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

I usually have good luck eyeballing the clutch alignment, then using guide pins as described earlier I get the trans started into the clutch. Once it gets to the pilot bushing and won’t quite go, depress the clutch pedal to release the clutch disc. It’ll usually slip right in. 

That's my problem.  We don't have the clutch linkage in so It takes a bit to get the clutch pressed in.

[NickPickToo]

So I get frustrated on this and ask dad to take a closer look for me while I'm getting a glass of water.  I come back and its in.  I asked him how the heck?   

 

We were using guide pins and had loosened the pressure plate.  He put a strap around it and used the chain hoist to fine tune the alignment.  He also said he put the transmission in gear so he could wiggle the shaft a bit using the rear brake drum and then said he pushed it right in.  He said the last 1/4  inch or so was still snug and that I should ask the forum members if we should be concerned.  

 

He also took the clutch fork out to make it easier to work with and when I said that we would probably have to take it back apart to get it in, he just slipped the fork back in place, clips and all, by feel as if he could see right through the bell housing.  Who does that?

 

Oh and I never found those two round screens from my classified.  If any one has a lead on them I'm looking.  I'll repost the classified after a month or so

 

Also included a before shot.  Almost forgot how much gunk was on this.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by NickPickToo

[casper50]

Never underestimate the knowledge a father has and what they can accomplish.

[Sam Buchanan]

On 2/6/2020 at 5:09 PM, NickPickToo said:

 

 

Also included a before shot.  Almost forgot how much gunk was on this.

 

 

 

 

Yeah.....I think I can tell a difference.........    ?

[NickPickToo]

Okay, my project just took on a whole new dimension.  My neighbor just introduced me to the world of audio exciters.  You wouldn't believe the sound these things can make if set up right.  He offered to help me calculate optimal placement if I want to work this into the project.  I am thinking about something in the roof hidden by the headliner.

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

33 minutes ago, NickPickToo said:

Okay, my project just took on a whole new dimension.  My neighbor just introduced me to the world of audio exciters.  You wouldn't believe the sound these things can make if set up right.  He offered to help me calculate optimal placement if I want to work this into the project.  I am thinking about something in the roof hidden by the headliner.

 

 

 

given you had room.....what are you going to do when it comes time to service one...tear the headliner down....believe there are way better options for placement...

[NickPickToo]

2 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

 

given you had room.....what are you going to do when it comes time to service one...tear the headliner down....believe there are way better options for placement...

 

Good point.  won't take much room and perhaps a modular approach to the headliner so the exciter can be accessed.  I think the tough part will be finding a material that can keep its sound quality when its curved to fit the roof shape.  

 

[Andydodge]

An audio exciter?.......when I was young we used to make girls excited.........oops.........I think this is maybe a little different......lol......I'll go back in my corner now......lol............andyd.

[Plymouthy Adams]

you could prepare yourself for old age and deafness by mounting an exciter as a horn center, then you could do like Edison did and listen through your teeth as you drive about biting the steering wheel.  Nah, by that time hopefully otic implants will be dispensed from a bubble gum machine.

[Andydodge]

O/k.....so what is an audio exciter?...............lol...........andyd

[Plymouthy Adams]

come on Andy...you found this site, surely you can find an exciter with a search.   I read up on them myself to see if there may be an advantage with the Morris Minor stereo install given there is so little room to mount speakers with decent separation.  Then I said what the hang, you got hearing loss and tone deaf as it is....all you need is background noise.

[NickPickToo]

Okay doing more research based on the discussion with my neighbor and here's an idea.  balsa wood end grain sheets to conform to the shape of the roof.  They look cool too so perhaps it can be worked into the headliner instead of hid under it.   You can also fashion it to a foam kick board or to the panel below the rear window.  Even to a panel behind the rear seat to use the trunk to add resonance.  The potential uses are mind numbing.  Anyway we have a pair of exciters on the way ($19 each) and plan to play around to see what we come up with.  PA we'll even see about paying with a mouth piece for kicks.  I'll post whatever we come up with.

[Ulu]

On the youtube channel Tech Ingredients they build these to hang on a wall.

The edges are unsupported and the driver is just glued on.

In a physically dynamic environment like a car, this is probably a poor idea.

It's like a big leaf. What happens when you open the windows while going 55 MPH?

I managed to put two 4" speakers and a 10" woofer in the back shelf of my P15, and 6" in the dash, run as a ghost channel.

 

I never needed more.

 

I had to make a special cabinet to fit behind the rear seat, above the shelf. It was a bit odd, but I just built one from cardboard and tape until it fit exactly, then duplicated it in wood.

Because the bottom was screwed directly to the shelf, and the ends were small, the wood need be only 5/16. the baffle was 1/2"

I made the baffle 1/8" too large so it fit tight to the headliner and seat upholstery.

 

I had to carve a special baffle for the front as a regular 6" speaker won't fit tight to the grill without an adaptor. My car didn't have the oddball shape stock speaker when I bought it..

[Ulu]

https://youtu.be/CKIye4RZ-5k

[NickPickToo]

3 hours ago, Ulu said:

https://youtu.be/CKIye4RZ-5k

Thanks we've seen this and its serving as the inspiration.  To make the panels stationary in car we're going to have to find a way to isolate the panels while holding them firmly in place.  It will be fun to try even if we fail.  

 

[kbuhagiar]

Nicholas,

 

You are making fantastic progress! Keep up the good work!

 

I've been away from the forum for a few months; as best as I can surmise, back in November (or somewhere thereabouts) I stopped receiving update notifications from the Forum. Unbeknownst to me, it appears that my email provider blacklisted all messages from P15/D24.  Yesterday morning I realized that I hadn't gotten any updates on the build for quite some time so I checked in and found a backlog of private messages (one, actually) and about ten unread thread pages. 

 

I have since switched to a different email address (one of several I maintain for this very reason) and am now re-connected, as such, to the Forum.

 

Slightly off topic...I noted a sad reference ('RIP') to esteemed member Don Coatney a few pages back  - is this true? If so, we've lost a reliable source of sage advice - and spice.

 

Carry on Nicholas (and Ben), looking forward to more updates.

Edited February 20, 2020 by kbuhagiar

[Ulu]

A car is a strange environment for audio. There are a world of differences just from car to car.

 

I've built a number of speaker enclosures before, and essentially you are making a free-air speaker. No baffle to improve atmospheric coupling. It's so big it couples directly quite well.

 

It's difficult to get bass without a big radiator (acoustic, not heat) so in a modest room two very large panels (radiators) are required on the drivers (exciters).

They may not seem large compared to boxed speakers, but they are huge if you compare radiator sizes to radiator sizes, by db ouput at standardized situations.

 

The joy of those big panels is that you do get bass from modest input wattage, because of the big radiator. It's efficient. It's not sturdy.

 

BUT, since a 50 watt radio is no larger than a 10 watt radio, and a car has little room, it makes more sense to use a modest radiator size and more watts.

 

By shaping the radiator, you can make it stiff and still light, but it will always be delicate. You can seal it to prevent humidity damage, and harden the soft surface, but the sealer can weigh a lot.

 

It will be an interesting experiment, but I think there are lots of hurdles before you.

[NickPickToo]

8 hours ago, Ulu said:

A car is a strange environment for audio. There are a world of differences just from car to car.

 

It will be an interesting experiment, but I think there are lots of hurdles before you.

 

Thank you for the advice.  Just a few thoughts though

 

Advice from my dad.  Thomas Edison said the most valuable resource for a r&d shop is the scrap pile out back   Failure is a wonderful source for success.  Here's a link to another example of this idea he shared with me.  

 

 

 

My neighbor, who led me to this experiment is an a retired engineer / physicist / inventor with patents in imaging and automotive.  We use to not be able to even visit his workshop unless he locked up his projects but now he's retired so no limits.  He says the same thing.  failing is fun and sometime ends up being exciting.    

 

Okay so lets say it's not the perfect solution in the end, but who else will have a balsa wood flat speaker in their headliner.  Come on now how sic is that.

 

Also, welcome back Ken

10 hours ago, kbuhagiar said:

I've been away from the forum for a few months;

 

[Ulu]

Don't let me stop your experiments. Experimenting is the best part!

Just because I can't see a way to make it work doesn't mean there isn't one.

 

But grab one by the magnet while it's playing and wave it around in the air, and I think you'll hear harmonic distortion.

 

It can work, but I don't believe it will sound good unless you are parked.

 

Yet I have not tried this, and I may be completely wrong.