Generic OD discussion - is it worth it?

[Thomba48]

Hi to all of you - having a vintage car is somehow different than owning a modern car. In the latter case I would never even consider to optimise or change what I have. In the first - so vintage car case - it feels like it would be almost just tooo boring to not make changes of various kinds.

Well one change I was considering is to possible add an OD. After all especially on motorways the flathead six (with little abilities to be really tuned up a lot) comes to its limitations, also in sound terms.

So what is your verdict - does an OD really help? Are there any downsides - besides the price obviously - to install an OD? 

 

Looking forward to hearing from you.

[Andydodge]

My personal opinion regarding an overdrive on these mopar 6's is best summed up by the fact that I imported a T5 overdrive from the US for the Plymouth.......for me any overdrive is a no brainer........andyd 

[Mark D]

Best thing I added to my Sedan, and one of the most challenging rebuilds I've ever taken on. After I bought the R10, I stripped it, replaced every bearing and worn part, rebuilt it and installed it.  I'm likely to look for another for my convertible.

[DrDoctor]

   I’d say the final decision depends on: how much, how fast, how far, you plan on driving the car; and how much you’re willing to spend on this particular component.

[plyroadking]

After installing one in my '40 Plymouth I can't imagine not having overdrive. I drive that car every time I go out of town. It's annoying that my other vehicles are not as easy to swap in an od as the mopars are. 

[48ply1stcar]

Has anyone installed a automatic transmission /overdrive using a Wilcap adapter.  Does this help with increasing top-end speed. 

[wayfarer]

Adapting a some-what modern automatic trans (Mopar or gm) is NOT a simple weekend installation and will cost a fair bit to accomplish whether you do all of the fab work or send it out to the local rod-shop.

Yes, having an A-500 in the car would be nice convenience but have plenty of funds on hand before you start.

The A-500 uses a .69 reduction so higher speed/lower rpm is attainable but one must also be aware of the available torque limitations in an old L6.....

.

Edited July 3, 2017 by wayfarer

[desoto1939]

One must consider the costs, not just the OD trans but also the new drive shaft that willhave to be made to use on the longer trans unit.  Also the entire setup with acutating pull rods and the various selinoids that have to be acquired for some of the older cars.

So you have the cost of buying the OD, Overhauling the OD, New DriveShaft, Various selinoids and switches and in my case for the 39 Desoto the  pul rod to engage the OD unit and cables.  Now there is also the posibility that since you can travel on faster roads then you are going to want disk braskes on all four wheels so now you have to convert the front brakes and different rear end.  But then you might have to get another driveshaft made if you decided to do this rear end swap after you just did the OD system.

So plan out what you want to do.  Or just go slower and enjoy the time that you have with your old car. So you get to your destination 10-30 later than you would without the OD unit.

 

Just my thoughts.

rich HArtung

[48ply1stcar]

Maybe a rear end swap may would be a easier alternative.  Lower ratio differential (more top-end), newer bakes, easier access to parts.  Plenty of information here. Ford Explorer or Jeep Cherokee differentials come to mind.

Edited July 3, 2017 by 48ply1stcar

[Plymouthy Adams]

Not sure what OD the man is inquiring as it is not stated but I would suggest for some to read a bit more on the physical dimensions and retrofitting a R10 OD into these cars. 

[plyroadking]

1 hour ago, desoto1939 said:

One must consider the costs, not just the OD trans but also the new drive shaft that willhave to be made to use on the longer trans unit.  Also the entire setup with acutating pull rods and the various selinoids that have to be acquired for some of the older cars.

So you have the cost of buying the OD, Overhauling the OD, New DriveShaft, Various selinoids and switches and in my case for the 39 Desoto the  pul rod to engage the OD unit and cables.  Now there is also the posibility that since you can travel on faster roads then you are going to want disk braskes on all four wheels so now you have to convert the front brakes and different rear end.  But then you might have to get another driveshaft made if you decided to do this rear end swap after you just did the OD system.

So plan out what you want to do.  Or just go slower and enjoy the time that you have with your old car. So you get to your destination 10-30 later than you would without the OD unit.

 

Just my thoughts.

rich HArtung

It depends on what car it's going into for what all extra you'll need to do. I've never had to get a driveshaft shortened until I'm getting ready to put an od in my 1950 Dodge Wayfarer. 

When I occasionally sell them I include everything but the wire and oil, unless I also install it for the buyer too.

[Robert Horne]

I used three of my stock 3 speed transmissions before I went to the 5 speed Ranger trans.

I am very glad I did.       Now I have a lower than normal gear for first, great for coming up my steep driveway,

and I have a 5th gear that is my overdrive gear.     The 5 speed's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears are very similar to the 3 gears

in my old 3 speed transmissions.        Consider the cost,   $50, and $75 for two Ranger trans  The driveshaft (Explorer) cost about $15

at the junk yard.     The Ranger rears are very cheap to buy.    No adapters needed, only a little machine work on the trans

front cover to match the 5 inch hole it the bell housing.        My 38 is a lot easier to drive now, than when I had the stock trans.. 

[Don Coatney]

I installed a T-5 overdrive transmission. I did this before there were any "kits" available for this swap. So the challenge of doing this install was fun and I am very pleased with the end result. 

[HotRodTractor]

8 hours ago, 48ply1stcar said:

Has anyone installed a automatic transmission /overdrive using a Wilcap adapter.  Does this help with increasing top-end speed. 

I have on of the WIlcap adapters that I plan on using when I install a Chrysler 265 into my 28 Ford RPU - I'm building to to be a cross country rig so I spent the extra money so I could have an aluminum bell-housing and a T5 transmission to cut out some weight for fuel economy and a little more pep for acceleration. I'm not sure I would go this route for a car or pickup that natively had a Dodge/Chrysler flathead installed. - most of these original installations had provisions for the clutch and brake and they are pretty easy to adapt to a T5 for less money than the Wilcap setup while maintaining the factory linkage for the pedals. Just my 2 cents. Your mileage might vary.

[desoto1939]

5 hours ago, plyroadking said:

It depends on what car it's going into for what all extra you'll need to do. I've never had to get a driveshaft shortened until I'm getting ready to put an od in my 1950 Dodge Wayfarer. 

When I occasionally sell them I include everything but the wire and oil, unless I also install it for the buyer too.

Plyroadking:  If I would go with the stock 1939 Mopar OD unit this unit bolts onto the back of the original 3 speed Trans therefor my original driveshaft would have to be shortened or would have to get a slip joint driveshaft made to accomodate the shortened distance from the back of the overdrive to the rear differential.  That alone would be approx $400. I would not take my original 70+ drive shaft and cut it There is the possibiluty that if would be off balance and then you still have a 70+ old DS.  With the factory OD for the 39 Mopars there are several selinoids that have to be used and ther run approx $100 and different linkages. So to keep my 39 Desoto looking original the cost outways the OD unit for me. i am comfortable driving at 50 MPH. I do not plan on doing 70 mph with my car or going to California from PA with the car.  Just trying to let you know whats involved with a factory OD unit for my 39 Desoto. If you find an OD for $500 plus shipping plus rebuilding and the special other parts well over 1000+ dollars.

 

Rich Hartung

[DJ194950]

11 hours ago, Thomba48 said:

Well one change I was considering is to possible add an OD. After all especially on motorways the flathead six (with little abilities to be really tuned up a lot) comes to its limitations, also in sound terms.

So what is your verdict - does an OD really help? Are there any downsides - besides the price obviously - to install an OD? 

If you can locate a Borg Warner R-10-G1 in Europe or the U.S. for a reasonable price,-- forget EBAY as the US prices on the site have been  beyond belief, I guess they are hoping to find someone with No clue as to value buy it! They work great and make 70+ mph easy. Easy install. Wiring for OD the operation is not hard to add. One push/pull handle with cable required. Sure almost anything with  required action is readily available  locally to you.

They are out there! Reasonable also.

If you can find one of the R-10_G-1,s that came from a std. 3 spd. car, Plymouth, Dodge, possibly Desoto, Chrysler?? the length of the OD trans is the same as your std. 3 spd. you currently have therefore the drive shaft fits as is, No change required! Just make sure to get the shifter arms from the OD on the transmission box as may need to be used. Your column shifter shift arms will also fit as is. Maybe adjustments as required.

Easy install, locating one is the problem at times.

DJ

[JOHN EDGE]

I had planned and bought everything I needed to put t5 behind my 218 in my 52 Plymouth wagon which had the factory overdrive in it but had some operation issues.  Once I finished the engine I planned to install the t5 but I took it to a few shows and spent some time getting the overdrive to operate correctly and after a few road trip I loved the look of the column shift and how simple it is to operate

i decided to keep it and have decided to stay with the overdrive. It's great on the highway at 70/75 mph

[JOHN EDGE]

I did update to a new  driveshaft with spicer type ujoints and that improved the harmonics of the drive shaft above 55 . Nice and smooth

[JOHN EDGE]

I've done several t5 conversions behind flathead fords and early Buick and know the vast improvement over those original 3 speeds and the cost involved so either way you go will be an improvement. Maybe the best improvement you can do

[dpollo]

I have been using the R10 overdrives in my 50 and 51 Plymouths since 1965 and recently adapted one to my 52 Fargo truck, all with excellent results,  I logged over 100 000 miles in the first one and over 50 000 miles each in two others.  My cars need to be driven on highways every time out and the reduction in  engine speed makes for comfortable cruising and longer engine life. I have also installed them in 40, 42, 47, 48 and 50 Plymouths for customers who have been pleased with them despite the cost of about $1000. in today's money.   In these models, the overdrive transmission is a virtual bolt in swap.  In the truck as in the short wheelbase cars, driveshaft modifications are necessary but not expensive.

The mechanical reliability is excellent and the only real trouble I have had is with the somewhat finicky electrical controls. When these controls can be found new, reliability goes up.

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, JOHN EDGE said:

I've done several t5 conversions behind flathead fords and early Buick and know the vast improvement over those original 3 speeds and the cost involved so either way you go will be an improvement. Maybe the best improvement you can do

Anyone contemplating a T5 swap using a Chevrolet S10 NWC be aware of the gear ratios, as some suck big time.

They are not all suitable for use, the T5 from an S10 has the shifter mid range, others have them in the tail end, making it's use with a stock bench seat impossible.

So do your home work, the NWC S10 trans with a 4.03 1st gear and .86 overdrive might be fine with a Ford flathead V8 or  Chevy Stovebolt 6, but with a healthy Flathead 6 Chrysler and gearing beyond 3.55 having a 4.03 1st gear would be the $hits.

So the T5 is not anyone will do, you need to find them with a usable gear ratio and spread, as well as shifter location and mechanical speedo.

Plenty of other choices beyond a T5....

Edited July 4, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Thomba48]

Thank you all for your help and inspiration. I decided to go down that route and agreed to purchase one unit. By the way - for me it is not a matter of driving faster at all. It is more a question of when driving on the motorway in my previous Plymouth just doing 65mph (which you honestly have to in Germany in order not be thrown off almost) felt being a very noisy and almost brutal exercise for the car. We shall see and I will leave you informed.

[Thomba48]

And by the way: HAPPY 4TH JULY CELEBRATION TO ALL OR AT LEAST MOST OF YOU :-)

[1940 Dodge VC]

I put a Laycock J-type OD into the 1940 Dodge VC, and couldn't be happier. My students like to say, "It is the bomb!" I wrote about the process and included pictures, dimensions and links. Look up the Laycock overdrive thread in this forum. Those overdrives are fairly small and should fit into your car. You could mount it close to the rear end--or possibly directly to the rear end using the three tab rubber style donut mount.

[hkestes41]

The R10 OD was the best money I ever spent on my 48 Plymouth. Especially considering that I bought it from a guy along with the engine from a 53 suburban he was putting a Hemi in for $350. Both were in good working order.