Most Mechanics don't listen

[48Windsor]

I don't know if anyone else has had this problem but I've ran into it a couple times, not only with my Chrysler, but also with my 63 Cadillac. Mechanics, even ones that work on old stuff, seem to seem to ignore comments from customers.  

I have some basic mechanical skills, but I know my limitations. I do try to do a fair amount of research the problems I encounter.  On a recent trip to my, what I would call a good "old school" mechanic to have my Chrysler's brakes adjusted, I told him about what I had learned on this forum about adjusting the toe, heal, etc. After a week, out of frustration he finally read the manual and I now have a decent brake pedal. It seems they all think its just nuts and bolts, and I continue to tell them these cars are different. It seems to fall on deaf ears until they see defeat. 

Had the same problem with alignment on my Caddie. Gave the guy alignment specs for radial tires which is different than the factory specs for bias. He ignored my info, car drove like crap. Took it to one of my local guys and told him what happened so he used the specs I had. He tweaked them a little and it drives great. It took and act of God to get my money refunded from the 1st shop.

Ok, entertainment is over and I'm done with my rant! Good luck to all when taking your cars to the shop.

Tom B

[knuckleharley]

6 minutes ago, 48Windsor said:

I don't know if anyone else has had this problem but I've ran into it a couple times, not only with my Chrysler, but also with my 63 Cadillac. Mechanics, even ones that work on old stuff, seem to seem to ignore comments from customers.  

 

I would be willing to bet we all have had that trouble. I take mine to a shop when something needs to be done I don't have the tools to do,or when I am unable to do the work due to illness or injury. 9 times out of 10 it's done half-assed,and I have to end up redoing it later on.

The mechanics of today aren't used to having customers that know mechanics,and too many of them are used to doing shoddy work because they can get away with it in the short term,and a few months later it will be someone else's problem to deal with.

Nowhere is this more true than bodywork and paint.

[keithb7]

The points mentioned above are part of the reason I do almost anything I can to my car at home. I need forums like this to help guide me along. I can round up the tools, the time, shop space, and muscles. With the community technical help here, I'll try almost any repair my call will need. The same could be said about any paid help it seems. Drywall, painting, tile flooring, deck builders...There is no shortage of shoddy workmanship these days. I'm grateful today that I'm able to climb over, under and around the car to do the work. I have no idea what I am going to do when I can't someday. Hopefully my son is super interested in keeping up the old car at that time.

Edited June 25, 2017 by keithb7

[knuckleharley]

54 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

The points mentioned above are part of the reason I do almost anything I can to my car at home. I need forums like this to help guide me along. I can round up the tools, the time, shop space, and muscles. With the community technical help here, I'll try almost any repair my call will need. The same could be said about any paid help it seems. Drywall, painting, tile flooring, deck builders...There is no shortage of shoddy workmanship these days. I'm grateful today that I'm able to climb over, under and around the car to do the work. I have no idea what I am going to do when I can't someday. Hopefully my son is super interested in keeping up the old car at that time.

You are going to be screwed,like the rest of us. I just bought an "Auto-Twirler" http://autotwirler.com/ because neither my knees nor my back bend worth a damn,and I have a hard time getting down on the floor without falling down. If I am going to fix the rust out in my 51,42,and 33 cars,I am going to have to arrange to do it while sitting or standing. Tried going to a few local body shops that have good reputations,but I used to do body and fender work myself at independent body shops and at one dealership,so I know what I am seeing,and that is shoddy work. Even a couple of shops the "rod run/parking lot show" people like to go to in order to socialize. What I see is cars with full coats of body plastic because they either don't know how to remove the dents,or just don't want to spend the time to do it right. I saw one shop that actually had rolled up newspaper in the well of a trunk so the body plastic wouldn't fall through the holes in the quarter panel before it hardened.

Keep in mind that I was NOT trying to bargain anyone down on price. I may not be happy about it,but I would be willing to pay a good price for good work,but it just doesn't work that way. I actually had one shop foreman brag to me that they agreed to use lead filler in welds and small dings on a car,and then just used plastic after promising the owner they would use lead,and giving him a labor estimate based on using lead. He said "The guy will never know the difference." He was probably right about that,but that is not the point. The point is he had promised to use lead and the owner was paying for that labor and skill set.

I took my 39 Ford to two different body shops to have it painted before giving up. Both times it just sat that for months with no work being done,and it seemed like every time I went there to check on it there were people screwing with it. One time one guy even had the trunk lid opened and was looking inside it,while his idiot child was standing on the seat and twisting the steering wheel while hopping up and down and making motor noises. Neither the father nor the child was ready to hear what I had to say to them,but they heard it none the less.

I know of one man that took the 56 Buick his father bought new to the highest rated body shop in this area to have it restored,and this guy is a millionaire that has the bucks to spent. It sat outside for 2 years out back with the grass growing up around it,so he just gave up and towed it back home without it even being touched.

As for the construction trades people,it's a damn good thing for most of them that a license isn't required to buy a hammer.

Edited June 25, 2017 by knuckleharley

[MackTheFinger]

There are still honest, capable mechanics and bodymen around who won't rape you. The Studebaker in the pic just had the bodywork and paint done by a guy I know and the rest was done by a long-time friend. The car was a total rust bucket. The floors and right a-pillar were rotted away and the bottom half of the body was pretty well rusted out. To make it worse the owner had cut the rockers and floor out without reinforcing the rest of the body. You can imagine what a floppy piece of junk it was. The bodyman, who did his apprenticeship at a nationally known Mopar restoration shop; did all the repairs and paint for right around $10k including material. I know that sounds like a lot to some people, including the owner; but it was cheap in my opinion. My friend Mike rebuilt all the running gear, engine, transmission, differential, brakes, installed new wiring, and assembled the rest of the car. I think the entire build cost the guy about $20k.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Money drives the system, pride and honesty is only found in the dictionary. 

[knuckleharley]

7 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said:

The bodyman, who did his apprenticeship at a nationally known Mopar restoration shop; did all the repairs and paint for right around $10k including material. I know that sounds like a lot to some people, including the owner; but it was cheap in my opinion. My friend Mike rebuilt all the running gear, engine, transmission, differential, brakes, installed new wiring, and assembled the rest of the car. I think the entire build cost the guy about $20k.

10 K for a full body-off restoration,assembly,and paint was a freaking bargain!

[MackTheFinger]

Bud charged the guy $10k for the bodywork, paint, and body re-assembly while Mike was rebuilding the drivetrain. Bud did a great job on what started out as scrap. Replacing the entire A-pillar and floorpan alone had to be a major pain.. When Bud quoted $3k to finish it up from there, including wiring, installing the drivetrain, every piece of the brakes, glass, upholstery, fuel tank, bumpers, lights, wipers, chrome trim, etc; the guy balked and said he could get it done cheaper. That's when it ended up at Mike's. I've known Mike over 40 years and I'd bet he did most of the re-assembly gratis. I was still scratching my head over the guy thinking $35.00 per hour was extravagant and Mike said, "There are old car guys and guys with old cars. You know which one he is." 

That's why mechanics don't listen.. 

[plyroadking]

Reminds me of the time I took my 86 chevy k30 to car-x for an alignment to satisfy a tire warrantee claim. The "Technician" swore up and down numerous times that he had to adjust the camber and castor and after his "adjustments" it was now correct. The manager even backed him up! Took some arguing, they never admitted that those adjustments can't be made to a straight axle but I didn't have to pay for the toe in adjustment. 

[Mortimer452]

It is for this reason I try to do absolutely everything I can myself.  I enjoy it, so it's not a big deal.

I'll be needing new tires soon.  I'm scared to death some kid with an impact gun is going to strip out or break my lug bolts on the driver side despite my many warnings that they are left hand thread.  I will probably just pull the wheels and take them to the tire shop without the car attached.

[knuckleharley]

40 minutes ago, Mortimer452 said:

It is for this reason I try to do absolutely everything I can myself.  I enjoy it, so it's not a big deal.

I'll be needing new tires soon.  I'm scared to death some kid with an impact gun is going to strip out or break my lug bolts on the driver side despite my many warnings that they are left hand thread.  I will probably just pull the wheels and take them to the tire shop without the car attached.

That's probably the safest thing to do. Especially since most shops  won't allow customers into the shop area to make suggestions any more.

[Jerry Roberts]

I just had four new tires put on my vehicle . I left my hub caps at home because I spot glue them on . Also when I got home I checked my tire pressure and all of the lug nuts for over tightening . No problems . 

[50 coupe]

Me: ' Can you do the alignment on a 1950 Plymouth coupe'

Shop: 'I guess not, the computer doesn't recognize it'

Me: 'Never mind.....'

[Plymouthy Adams]

the computer does not have to recognize it to get the read out and allow human intervention to set the desired specs.....recognize in their terms just means they do not have the specification loaded into the machine to give them a comparable to what is now and what it should be and the difference of the two..

[Andydodge]

When I 1st got the Dodge sedan I was 17, and had started a good job, had more money than brains so had the gearbox, diff, brakes, carby, starter, generator, radiator all rebuilt by various companies that specialised in these areas and got good work done...then decided to have the stock 6 engine rebuilt by the supposedly "best" reconditioning business at the time in Sydney.......picked up a nicely repainted silver engine buttoned up top to bottom....installed it and after 1200 miles noticed a rear main seal leak...pulled the sump and discovered a nice pile of swarf sitting in the sump.........pulled the rear main to discover buggered bearings as were the other three........pulled the engine and installed a 318V8.........later had it reco'd by a different company BUT assembled by me...........and whilst I am not a mechanic nor have any formal qualifications in any field I will defer to experts when I have to but when I do this I always supply them with whatever workshop manual etc I have, "just because I have this and thought you might want to check" .........trust nobody, believe no one.................lol..........andyd 

[Ricky Luke]

The local dealers now refer to their workers as "technicians". Plug in the computer and see what it says to do. They then get who I call a "fitter" to pull out the old (maybe) thing and fit a new one. 

Decent mechanics who can carry out diagnostics without relying on a computer are unfortunately rare.

Rick

 

[TodFitch]

14 minutes ago, Ricky Luke said:

The local dealers now refer to their workers as "technicians". Plug in the computer and see what it says to do. They then get who I call a "fitter" to pull out the old (maybe) thing and fit a new one. 

Decent mechanics who can carry out diagnostics without relying on a computer are unfortunately rare.

Rick

 

This is true. But it also seems true that the only real way to fix the engine/drivetrain on a car built in the last 15 or maybe even 20 years is to check with a ODB2 tool to see what codes are being reported.

And some technicians are smart enough to dig through a whole list of codes and figure out what the real issue is. For example, a little while ago my 2004 Prius died. I checked the codes on it and top of the list was one that said MG2 (or maybe it was MG1) was bad. MG in this case is "motor-generator". There are two of them and they, along with a planetary gear set, are basically the transmission of the car. Cost of repairing/replacing a transmission is basically enough to total the 13 year old car. The technician looked past the top error code and found the crank sensor on the gasoline engine had failed. That failure meant the engine would not start, since the engine is started by the motor-generator the computer blamed the motor-generator. In the end, it was a couple dollar part along with a bill for diagnosis and labor.

[keithb7]

Lucky you @TodFitch. That's a rare story these days it seems. 

Computers are everywhere in our lives. Controlling almost everything it seems. I would not blame a modern day technician for this. Manufacturers are forced to comply with tight emissions, consumer pressure, price pressure, competition, and more. Computers help here. They are sophisticated and programmed to function by engineers a lot smarter than the average car owner. A modern day tech is a result of his surroundings. 99.9% of what a tech works on is computerized. So are many of the tools he/she uses to troubleshoot the complaint. 

We're here as a unique group of car owners hanging on to almost a century old technology. Like flat head engines. We love old cars. We love working on them. They bring us joy. It sure is nice to find a mechanic who also loves these old cars. Even better when you find said mechanic and they actually listen you what you say. As mentioned in post 1. 

Many younger technicians today don't know a world without internet and cell phones. The world has changed very quickly as more and more people become electronically connected. As we are here in this forum.  It seems that sadly, the art of face to face communication is dying. Attention spans are short. Sometimes it feels like nobody listens anymore, compared to the 80's, 70's, 60's and so on. This is progress? 

I had an interesting experience recently. I went to the local Canadian Legion on a Sat night. A 2 piece band was playing old dance standards. The audience were all seniors. They got up promptly when the music started and glided all over the dance floor. Smiling with friends. At music breaks they sat together with all their dance floor partners and laughed over drinks. Not one cell phone ever came out. No selfies. No Facebook posts. Just music, friends and a beer or two. I quickly surmised that that generation and their culture is almost lost for good. It's sad what's going on today. 

Good luck finding a good tech who will listen. It seems they are far and few between. 

[pflaming]

I'm like Mortimer, rather do it myself. For me the learning process supersedes the results, if I can fix it so it is a safe vehicle to drive, I've won. The manual, internet, and this forum have been my resources along with a lot of mistakes. Sometimes it's very artistic like today, pics of a head gasket and head. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by pflaming