Me and the Meadowbrook

[Worden18]

August 20:

Spent the evening putting on the new carburetor.  What a task.  There is about zero room for the mounting nuts.  In hindsight I should have taking the adapter to work and milled slots on both sides to make it easier to screw on the mounting nuts.  There would have been much less interference with the adapter body, and more room for my wrench.  It was just a terrible bear. There is no room because of the heater box and no room on the other side because of the engine itself, let alone the curved shape of the adapter which just makes it really difficult to get the nuts on.  It probably took me an hour and a half, but I wasn't going to let it beat me.  The kit comes with a piece of throttle linkage that you're supposed to weld to your existing linkage after you cut a piece off of your existing linkage.  I decided not to do that, so I drilled a hole in the mounting bracket of the carburetor for the throttle that was .015 bigger than threaded part of my throttle linkage.  See pic.  I ran a countersink over it to get rid of the burr.  I actually tightened (made shorter) my throttle linkage a little bit to go with the bigger hole I drilled, because unscrewing the linkage farther would have put me near the end of the threads if I wanted to use that upper middle hole.  This way I was at a nice 90 degree angle, and no chopping of original linkage, and no welding.

[Worden18]

Aug. 20:

I can see if this carburetor was mounted sideways on a Volkswagen bug engine in the rear of the vehicle how easy it would be to work on.  Different story on a 1951 Meadowbrook with a flathead.  Things are in the way. I had to use my old craftsman angled screwdriver to tighten up the screw for the choke linkage. There's just no other way to do it.  I also had to use an 8mm wrench to set the idle because you can't get a screwdriver in there.  

[Worden18]

Aug. 20:

Despite needing to be timed again and also needing to set the idle mixture screw (I hope to do both tomorrow after work), the car runs amazing!  I dumped a little bit of gas in the carburetor to prime it, and she started right up. The idle was at about 400 RPM, and stayed there without me having to feather the gas pedal after about 30 seconds; and that was without the choke on.  I took it for a quick spin around the block and I realized how my old flathead should have been running all of this time.  I'm going to put new plugs in it, and like I said, I will time it and set the idle mixture screw and we'll see where we're at.  I just want the car to be my daily driver again!  I'm close now ?

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Worden18

[Tim Larson]

On 8/20/2020 at 11:20 PM, Worden18 said:

Aug. 20:

Despite needing to be timed again and also needing to set the idle mixture screw (I hope to do both tomorrow after work), the car runs amazing!  I dumped a little bit of gas in the carburetor to prime it, and she started right up. The idle was at about 400 RPM, and stayed there without me having to feather the gas pedal after about 30 seconds; and that was without the choke on.  I took it for a quick spin around the block and I realized how my old flathead should have been running all of this time.  I'm going to put new plugs in it, and like I said, I will time it and set the idle mixture screw and we'll see where we're at.  I just want the car to be my daily driver again!  I'm close now ?

 

 

Nice to see your car out in the light again! I took m '49 to my nephew's third birthday up town today.

[tom'sB2B]

I'm curious how you are fairing with the new carburetor. I read that Langdon suggests that you have a heated manifold. Is that something you incorporated with the new carburetor?

[Worden18]

On 8/29/2020 at 7:14 PM, tom'sB2B said:

I'm curious how you are fairing with the new carburetor. I read that Langdon suggests that you have a heated manifold. Is that something you incorporated with the new carburetor?

Sorry for the long delay fellas.  The new carb is fine.  I'll have to read through Langdon's instruction sheet again to answer your question.  I have other issues that are keeping the Meadowbrook in the garage.

After taking a longer cruise with higher speeds and more acceleration, I realized I have timing/spark issues beyond a bad cap and rotor or plugs.  All of those are brand new.  It's the distributor itself.  Someone mentioned worn bushings, etc.  Not sure if that's part of the problem yet (I finally pulled the dizzy this morning... don't have it completely disassembled yet) as the shaft doesn't have any side play.  It does have end to end play.  Not sure if that is normal.  What isn't normal is the wear I found on the end of the shaft (the tang); about .015 PER SIDE....that must be enough to give me erratic timing issues that are making the car run so poorly.  lucky for me I have four extra distributors lying around that came with my truck.  One of them has very little shaft wear and seems very solid. The distributor numbers themselves are slightly different, but the shafts are exactly the same length.  I'm thinking I'm going to tear that one apart and completely clean it and put my pertronics back in it.  I hope to make good progress on this tomorrow. I've never completely disassembled a distributor before, but I have a friend that is willing to help if needed.  All I know is it makes me sick that I can't drive my car, so I need to get it fixed.  This distributor problem is hopefully the last piece of this puzzle. There's nothing left to fix!

[keithb7]

Hopefully you get it sorted out. Hopefully its not related to the Pentronics. 
 

 

 

[9 foot box]

   I put Pertronix ignition in a VW runabout that I built and run solid core plug wires. I keep waiting for it to fail. But, so far it fires right up. Have you checked your plug wires for resistance and are they carbon core or wire core? I think that early Pertronix could use solid core, but later required carbon core wires. Just a thought Worden, I’ve had carbon core fail in the past. That’s why I won’t use resistor anything in my older engines.

[Worden18]

Thanks for the concerns fellas. I don't think it's related to the pertronix as it ran good for the past four years. I believe I am running the correct spark plug wires.  A friend of mine helped me with that when we put the engine back in.  I always end up putting my foot in my mouth, but I'm certain my problems arise from my worn distributor.  I'm going to eliminate that one way or another, let's put it that way.  Right now I'm at a standstill with this other distributor that has a nicer shaft. The peened pin that goes through the shaft to hold it in place will not budge.  I'm going to have to take it to work and drill it out. I'll likely end up with a larger pin in replacement.  That's really the least of my worries.  My bigger worry is getting this whole thing put back together and still having the same problems. Only one way to find out. Stay tuned....

[51_Meadowbrook]

Vacuum leaks are a monster. They can cause erratic issues. I may be way off but I would think that if the vacuum is bouncing all over it would be pulling the distributor really strong and letting it go back to idle position and bounce back and forth between. 

[knuckleharley]

On 5/9/2020 at 11:32 PM, keithb7 said:

Cool report @Worden18 . Now I plan to try setting my timing the same way. However not until my vintage Snap-On dwell meter/tachometer arrives this coming week. I am excited to set the dwell properly! Then the idle. I have no idea what my idle speed and dwell actually are.Then I will hook up my vacuum gauge as you did and try setting the timing and idle adjustment screw. Better yet I get to do it twice. Once on each car!  Exciting stuff no doubt.

It is exciting. To people like us. If it wasn't,we would be like all the other drones and only drive modern,soulless cars.

Hell,I was excited for you from reading about it.

[knuckleharley]

On 5/21/2020 at 8:21 AM, lepic56 said:

WOW!!  Great story about the BandShell, older than your Dodge !!  lol

and  the Commercials about Winona in Winona ,, so funny and there more than one video of  Big game 2020, 

I remenber the 3 seasons on Nexflix called ,, FARGO (the series),,  set in Minnesota and North Dakota,, just can wait for the fourth seasons. The show is inspired by 1996 film..

Thank you for sharing a piece of history about area..

 

There is another season of Fargo?

 

When,and where?

 

BTW,just did a search on ROKU,and Season 3 is free on Hulu.

Edited September 8, 2020 by knuckleharley

[Frank Elder]

10 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

It is exciting. To people like us. If it wasn't,we would be like all the other drones and only drive modern,soulless cars.

Hell,I was excited for you from reading about it.

You are alive that’s awesome,I hope you are doing better.

[knuckleharley]

19 hours ago, Worden18 said:

Sorry for the long delay fellas.  The new carb is fine.  I'll have to read through Langdon's instruction sheet again to answer your question.  I have other issues that are keeping the Meadowbrook in the garage.

After taking a longer cruise with higher speeds and more acceleration, I realized I have timing/spark issues beyond a bad cap and rotor or plugs.  All of those are brand new.  It's the distributor itself.  Someone mentioned worn bushings, etc.  Not sure if that's part of the problem yet (I finally pulled the dizzy this morning... don't have it completely disassembled yet) as the shaft doesn't have any side play.  It does have end to end play.  Not sure if that is normal.  What isn't normal is the wear I found on the end of the shaft (the tang); about .015 PER SIDE....that must be enough to give me erratic timing issues that are making the car run so poorly.  lucky for me I have four extra distributors lying around that came with my truck.  One of them has very little shaft wear and seems very solid. The distributor numbers themselves are slightly different, but the shafts are exactly the same length.  I'm thinking I'm going to tear that one apart and completely clean it and put my pertronics back in it.  I hope to make good progress on this tomorrow. I've never completely disassembled a distributor before, but I have a friend that is willing to help if needed.  All I know is it makes me sick that I can't drive my car, so I need to get it fixed.  This distributor problem is hopefully the last piece of this puzzle. There's nothing left to fix!

Uhhhhhh.......

[knuckleharley]

3 minutes ago, Frank Elder said:

You are alive that’s awesome,I hope you are doing better.

Thanks! The surgeon says I probably have 2 or 3 good years left.

 

I'm pretty excited about that. I never expected to live to be 25 (was a career SF NCO),and this is the first time anyone has ever given me a warranty!

[Worden18]

7 hours ago, 51_Meadowbrook said:

Vacuum leaks are a monster. They can cause erratic issues. I may be way off but I would think that if the vacuum is bouncing all over it would be pulling the distributor really strong and letting it go back to idle position and bounce back and forth between. 

Not sure if there's a substantial leak. If there was, wouldn't I have a jumping needle on my vacuum gauge when setting the timing?  There was a slight bounce but less than one number.  Thoughts on that?  

[Worden18]

Sept. 7:

This is the Meadowbrook distributor.  I have no idea if it's the original one.  Inside you can see the springs are different. One is definitely weaker than the other.  The weights move easily.  Much easier than the other one I'm working on (that came with my truck).  Not sure if that's bad or not.  Shouldn't the springs be the same? Shouldn't there be a decent amount of tension by hand?

 

[Worden18]

Sept. 7:

This is the spare distributor.  Springs look to be the same.  #s are different from the Meadowbrook's distributor.  Not sure how big of a deal that is if I'm not using points, etc.  The shafts are the same length.  The vacuum advance pots are the same.  This one has good spring tension.  BTW, I don't believe either of my vacuum advance modules are working.  I pushed the arm in, held it there, and then put my thumb over the hole and let go.  If the diaphragm was good the arm should stay in, correct?  Neither of them do that.  I'm probably going to have a vacuum advance issue as well.  Thoughts?

 

[Merle Coggins]

Different tension springs are not unusual. They are used to change the advance curve throughout the RPM range. 

[Adam H P15 D30]

Just a thought:  There are several of us that have done the slant 6 distributor conversion for a reliable, off the shelf electronic ignition.  This is all fine and dandy unless you are staying with 6v, as I believe you are.  Why not do a slant 6 distributor conversion with a point distributor?  This will give you new parts including a new vacuum advance?  If you must have a petronix, you could buy one for a slant 6. 

[Worden18]

2 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Just a thought:  There are several of us that have done the slant 6 distributor conversion for a reliable, off the shelf electronic ignition.  This is all fine and dandy unless you are staying with 6v, as I believe you are.  Why not do a slant 6 distributor conversion with a point distributor?  This will give you new parts including a new vacuum advance?  If you must have a petronix, you could buy one for a slant 6. 

When I fail at what I'm attempting I'll probably move in that direction.  Thanks for reminding me of this option.  Yeah I'd like to stay 6V.

[Worden18]

Sept. 13:

Took the Meadowbrook distributor and my spare into my place of work to the mill.  My plan was to drill out the shaft pins (the ends were mushroomed on both dizzys) and swap the spare shaft that has a nice straight tang and identical springs on the mechanical advance...to the Meadowbrook distributor (which has a very worn tang -// if that's the correct word for the end of the shaft// and one crappy weak spring on the mechanical advance and one spring that on further inspection wasn't working at all).  I did just that.  I cleaned everything up, re-oiled the bushings and off I went to reassemble everything at home.  Although I'm sure what I accomplished IS going to help at some point, I believe I'm having grounding issues.  Man, I need some help with this.

 

I measured the resistance between the distributor plate and the positive ground on the battery and got .3 ohms, which is supposed to be okay.  I also measured across the coil, and that measured okay as well.  then I measured from the negative terminal on the coil to the center of the coil and got 8.83 ohms, which I think is okay but not entirely sure about that.  That measurement is actually 8,800 correct?  A 12-volt coil should measure 10 to 12,000 ohms correct?  I'm having a hard time with this electrical crap.  The big problem was I couldn't get my car started and the battery died.  The car just chugged like a Model T for a little bit and then would die.  I was getting gas in the carburetor.  I checked and rechecked all of my connections, which look fine.  

 

I also measured resistance from the battery to the coil ground on the fenderwell and got .3 ohms....still okay.  Then from the battery + to the firewall; there I got over 29 ohms!  As far as I know I don't have a ground strap from the engine to the frame, or from the engine to the firewall, or from the frame to the firewall.  Do I need all 3?  Could this be my biggest issue?  I'm really frustrated but trying to plug away at this.  

Edited September 14, 2020 by Worden18

[keithb7]

Hi Worden,  I reviewed your resistance numbers. If you like, for comparison I can record some of the same measurements on one of my cars. However both of mine utilize breaker points. If I recall you are using the Pentronix system. I have no idea about it other than it's solid state and I suspect uses a hall effect, or magnet of some type, to trigger the spark. I am suspicious about that Pentronix system, possibly being the source of your trouble.  My points, file, condenser, & dwell meter, have all performed rock solid so far.

 

I'd be inclined to make a new separate post, just addressing the electrical issue. Copy and paste your same post above. You may likely get a lot more views and responses. Some of these long threads, people get lost in. If they aren't following along the whole way, they may get behind and give up following. 

[Worden18]

3 hours ago, keithb7 said:

Hi Worden,  I reviewed your resistance numbers. If you like, for comparison I can record some of the same measurements on one of my cars. However both of mine utilize breaker points. If I recall you are using the Pentronix system. I have no idea about it other than it's solid state and I suspect uses a hall effect, or magnet of some type, to trigger the spark. I am suspicious about that Pentronix system, possibly being the source of your trouble.  My points, file, condenser, & dwell meter, have all performed rock solid so far.

 

I'd be inclined to make a new separate post, just addressing the electrical issue. Copy and paste your same post above. You may likely get a lot more views and responses. Some of these long threads, people get lost in. If they aren't following along the whole way, they may get behind and give up following. 

Yes, please lmk what you get for ohms on your coil from negative post to the center.  That's the one that may determine if my coil is bad.  I'm also wondering about my ignition switch.  I think I can test it if I can figure out how to get under the dash to remove it.  It's so far buried I'm not sure if I can get to it.  Worst case scenario I'll start a separate thread.

[keithb7]

I measured 9,420 ohm from either the positive or negative post to the center of my 6V coil. -`1938 Ply.