KingPin Saga DONE

[RobertKB]

2 hours ago, Don Coatney said:

I strongly suggest you take the spindal,s and pins to a machine shop and have the bushings reamed to fit the pins. This is not a good place to use a brake cylinder hone.

Absolutely agree! This what I tried to suggest previously. Go to a machine shop that knows how to do this and has the correct equipment. The only time you should have to pound on king pins is when having trouble removing old ones. 

[50 coupe]

Again, as I have stated a couple of times already in this thread, the bushings aren't the problem. It is the eye in the upright that is apparently undersize.

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by 50 coupe

[knuckleharley]

3 hours ago, 50 coupe said:

..... After removing the upright and spindle assemply I was able to get the stuck pin out. Don't ask how. Anyway, I used my cheapo digital caliper to measure the upright eye the pin goes through. It measures @ .785-.789 etc. I assume that is undersize. One of the two old pins will fit this eye, the other, as well as the new pin, seems to large. I might try to reuse the undersize pin and see how it fits with the new bushings. Otherwise I guess I would need to have new bushings, again, at least for this spindle to fit the smaller pin. Or, maybe take a brake hone to the upright eye?

Anyway, I discovered I do need new upper outer control arm pins. Probably should dissassemble the other side also, I would suspect that they are worn. So, not all is lost, got deeper into the front end than I planned but learning more as I go.

It sounds to me like one side of your front suspension  has been removed and replaced by pieces from a different year car. I can think of no other reasons for the kingpins to one two different sizes.

Look for casting numbers on the steering knuckles and control arms,and then buy parts so that both sides match. I guess you could just go ahead and use different sizes on each side,but I am too anal. I just couldn't live with that. It would bother me every day that I half-assed something that important,instead of fixing it right.

Plus,if you do it right,you don't have to worry about remembering which side is what if you ever have to buy new parts for it again. Plus you will be doing the next owner a favor so he doesn't have to go through the grief you did if he ever has to work on it.

Look at the bright side. You are doing this yourself and learning as you go along. No labor charges. Now,imagine how much this would be costing you if you had taken it to a shop and were paying someone by the hour to figure all this stuff out and fix it. When you are done you will have a good car to drive,you will have learned things,and you will have saved a ton of money on labor at the same time!

[James_Douglas]

I would take the spindle, the pin, the upright to a machine shop.  A good shop will hone, not ream, the bushings and upright in a line hone to fit the pin.  You should feel zero movement when done, but be able to spin the king pin like a top.

If properly honed to exacting tolerance the pins will go in perfect and when you put the tapered pin in the side of the upright, the king pin will rotate nice to accommodate it with hand pressure locking the tapered pin in place.

My machinist did not have the exact size hone he needed for his sonnen honing machine.  I found one off eBay with stones and he did it for free and I gave him the hone.  If ever need another, he will do it for free.

Using a good machine shop sunnen machine to hone, not ream the king pin, results in a very nice job.

 

James.

 

 

[50 coupe]

OK, here I am 3 months, 3 sets for bushing and 2 machine shops later, looks like I am on my own. Since I can't seem to get anyone to do this right I will have to do it myself. Long story short, I will need to remove the bushings and install new ones myself. I have a 12 ton shop press, should I use it or make a rig using bolts, washers and all-thread to get the old ones out/new ones in? Also, what is the best source for a proper line reamer? Thanks guys.

Edited March 4, 2017 by 50 coupe

[Dodgeb4ya]

Unbelievable!!!

[knuckleharley]

3 hours ago, 50 coupe said:

OK, here I am 3 months, 3 sets for bushing and 2 machine shops later, looks like I am on my own. Since I can't seem to get anyone to do this right I will have to do it myself. Long story short, I will need to remove the bushings and install new ones myself. I have a 12 ton shop press, should I use it or make a rig using bolts, washers and all-thread to get the old ones out/new ones in? Also, what is the best source for a proper line reamer? Thanks guys.

If you can use the shop press,use it. Why work harder than you have to?

Since I am positive you know the bushing and axle end dimensions,go to your local community college machine shop and have them make and harden a pin to use with the press to drive the old bushing out,and another pin to insert the new bushing without damaging it. For this pin I recommend you get one made with the outside diameter identical to the inside of the axle,and then have them turn a step in it the same diameter as the inside diameter of the bushing so you have a "shelf" to rest against the top of the new bushing you are pressing home that will keep it from cocking and will also keep it from mushrooming because the small diameter on the drive pin will be the same diameter as the inside diameter of the bushing.

Beyond that I would only add "lubricate thoroughly before pressing it in place.

Yeah,you could do all that with a hammer instead of the press,but that might be having too much fun at one time.

Edited March 4, 2017 by knuckleharley

[50 coupe]

OK, for posterity sake,  I was able to get the old bushings out using a length of 3/8 all-thread, a couple of bolts and hardened washers. The O.D. of the washer that fit perfectly on the bushing inside the kingpin opening in the spindle is 5/16. Held one end bolt with a box wrench and used an 'O' ratchet to turn and push out the bushing. I had 1" long spacer between the washer and the bolt. Eased them out nicely. I assume I will be able to use the same method to insert the new bushings when I get them. Wish I tried this myself a couple of months ago but live and learn. 

 

If anyone has suggestions on a source for a proper reamer, please let me know. I don't want to hassle with another machine shop.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Reamers on king pin bushings do not provide a  precise modern day pin to bushing fit like a "good" machine shop can provide by honing.

I have used a NOS factory Miller KP reamer and it worked very nice  but the fit was not as nice as a hone fitted pin.

I have never had a bad experience having pins machine fitted.

But I understand your situation.

[desoto1939]

In a prior posting someone had also suggested that the machine shop do a spiral cut into the bushings. The spiral cut or groove will then help to get the grease to the kingpin when you grease them. The original did not have the spiral cut or goove but why not make it better to keep them lubricated for life.

Just a suggestion.

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Dodgeb4ya]

The bushings should have two  grooves for the grease to spread already machined deep enough into the bushings ...plenty deep even after pin fitting too.

[DJ194950]

It has been many a year but way back when I used an adjustable reamer With a tapered pilot to keep it aligned with both bushings at the same time. I did one side then the other after slowly making it larger until one end fit fairly tightly then reversed the tool to slowly get the other bushing done to the same. Worked extremely well even on the first time I did it.

Like this one- not cheap! ( attached) Surprised a local machine shop does not have one and Someone who knows how to use it. They are available at Harbor Frieght as a set for about $70 But it does Not have the alignment tool to keep it centered, So probably not.

[austinsailor]

I'm stunned you're having this much problem. I take a set into my local machine shop, pick them up in a day and for around $25 labor they are always done and done right. Are there just no shops left that do anything?

[TodFitch]

3 hours ago, DJ194950 said:

It has been many a year but way back when I used an adjustable reamer With a tapered pilot to keep it aligned with both bushings at the same time. I did one side then the other after slowly making it larger until one end fit fairly tightly then reversed the tool to slowly get the other bushing done to the same. Worked extremely well even on the first time I did it.

Like this one- not cheap! ( attached) Surprised a local machine shop does not have one and Someone who knows how to use it. They are available at Harbor Frieght as a set for about $70 But it does Not have the alignment tool to keep it centered, So probably not.

That is exactly how I did the king pins on my '33 Plymouth. Used a micrometer and a "T" gauge to check the inside diameter of the bushing after each cut.

 

[50 coupe]

10 hours ago, austinsailor said:

I'm stunned you're having this much problem. I take a set into my local machine shop, pick them up in a day and for around $25 labor they are always done and done right. Are there just no shops left that do anything?

The first shop over honed. The second shop did them right the first time, but then I discovered that the pins I received in the new kingpin kit was just a bit over sized. Enough so that I couldn't get the driver's side through the upright. So, I got another set of bushing and had them install and hone to the old pin. However, this time they over honed. They were supposed to get new bushings and do it again but after the spindle sat there for three weeks and giving me a song and dance about 'the parts should be in tomorrow (every time I called)' I just went in and got the spindle and pin back before they lost it. Told them to call me when they get the bushings but I am doing it myself at this point. 

Going forward, I will only source NOS parts if available regardless of price, when necessary. As far as machine work, guess I am still looking for a 'competent' shop here in central Indiana. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Many of today's replacement parts supplied by the commonly known  vendors and others for our old cars are made wrong or of inferior materials. The parts don't fit right or fail prematurely.

I see it every week in my work.and It causes endless delays. We do not buy anything but NOS or NORS parts now. Another waiting game.

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, 50 coupe said:

 

Going forward, I will only source NOS parts if available regardless of price, when necessary. As far as machine work, guess I am still looking for a 'competent' shop here in central Indiana. 

Competent machine shops used to be one of the easiest things to find in Indiana. I  have no idea why,but every time I drive through Indiana,I see more nice hot rods and customs going down the road or parked in driveways than anywhere else I have ever been.

BTW,the next time any of you travel that way,you owe it to yourself to take the time to stop and visit the Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg Museum. The 3 most beautiful cars ever built anywhere in the world,and they all 3 designed in built in that one little factory. When you walk in the door,you are literally walking into a 1930's new car showroom. It is almost as interesting to hang around the showroom to see the looks on the faces of the people visiting when they walk in and spot what look like brand new Duesenbergs,Cords,and Auburns parked there on display. There was a late 30's Cord cabriolet parked there when I visited that had the deepest maroon paint job in the world on it,and if I were a wealthy man I would pay a stupid amount of money to own it,and keep it parked in my living room so I could admire it when not driving it.

[50 coupe]

On 3/4/2017 at 5:25 PM, Dodgeb4ya said:

Reamers on king pin bushings do not provide a  precise modern day pin to bushing fit like a "good" machine shop can provide by honing.

I have used a NOS factory Miller KP reamer and it worked very nice  but the fit was not as nice as a hone fitted pin.

I have never had a bad experience having pins machine fitted.

But I understand your situation.

Hey, Dodgeb4ya, where did you find the NOS Miller KP reamer? I can't find anything other than 'made in india' adjustable hand reamers!

[Dodgeb4ya]

A company I do restoration contract work for had it.

[50 coupe]

Ha! Looks like the solution to my KingPin saga is in sight....

[50 coupe]

Done! Quality reamer from Chadwick and Trefethen. Kingpin tapped in easy, fits tight and moves smoothly. Wish I would have done this myself in the first place.

[etzmolch]

Did a king pin and bushing replacement last week and had the same issues to get the king pin through the support. The pins were .03mm too big in diameter. Bought on same place. Took me two hours to grind them down to fit in the supports. Also the "pocket" for the  pin which keep the king pin in place is not equal compared to the old one. Must drive the pin deeper to get a thight king pin in the support. I can not recomend to buy the king pin set from A.Bernbaum. 

[simpleman]

hello to everyone. I'm new to this forum.I have a 41 Plymouth sedan delivery,someone before I got it collapsed the coil springs.hopeing someone can provide me with correct diameter and height of original springs. thanks for any and all help

[Jerry Roberts]

You might try to get in touch with the experts , like Eaton Springs . They should have all of the specifications . Welcome to the forum . 

[1952B3b23]

On 3/23/2017 at 1:13 PM, 50 coupe said:

Done! Quality reamer from Chadwick and Trefethen. Kingpin tapped in easy, fits tight and moves smoothly. Wish I would have done this myself in the first place.

Im glad you finally got it solved. That looks like a nice reamer. Just curious on how much it cost? I've toyed with the idea of getting one but usually i just bring them to a local machine shop and they do a great job.

-Chris

Edited April 27, 2017 by 1952B3b23