DollyDodge Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Hi all: I need some help. Dolly Dodge still isn’t charging the battery when she runs. I get a negative reading on the ammeter anythime there is an electrical use (blinker, lights, etc.), but it never goes to positive, but goes to zero when all electrical usage is stopped. As a reminder the generator has been rebuilt, starter rebuilt, new Rhode Island Wiring, new regulator. I have checked the wiring a dozen or more times and I am sure it is correct. In the manual I went through the checks in the electrical chapter, section 14. I set the voltmeters/ammeters as suggested, and got the following: Wiring and connections test positive volt lead to negative battery, and negative volt to arm terminal on gen: manuals says reading should be less than .35 volt, I got 5.43. I followed the procedures in the manual that it says to take if the reading is over .35. It says to leave the positive volt terminal to the negative battery. Test one: negative volt meter to negative batter. Manual says reading should be zero I got 0.6 Test two. Negative volt meter to starter switch terminal. Manual says reading should be zero I got 1.3. Test Three. Negative volt meter to batter lead terminal on the voltage regulator. Manual says reading should not exceed 0.15 volt, I got 0.6. It says if reading exceed 0.15 to examine the connections on the back of the ammeter. I did this even disconnected the ammeter and mat a direct connection skipping the ammeter and got the same reading. Test four. Negative volt lead to armature of the voltage regulator. Manual says reading should not exceed 0.28, I got 5.04. Test five. Negative volt meter lead to regulator B and the positive volt meter lead to regulator A terminal. Manual says reading should not exceed 0.12, I got 0.6. I did the ground check for the generator and got a zero reading, manual said it should be near zero. (Positive volt meter lead to generator frame and negative voltmeter lead to positive battery post). I did the both leads on the positive battery terminal and I got a very small reading. I forgot to write it down, but it was above zero that the manual states it should read. I also did the voltage regulator test Negative lead of volt meter to B terminal of the voltage regulator and the positive lead of the volt meter to the ground bolt for the voltage regulator. The manual says the reading should be 7.1-7.3, I was in that range. I didn’t do any of the other regulator tests, because it is obvious it isn’t working. I drove to work this morning with the lights on and by the time I got to work (12 miles) the battery was at 5 volts, still negative draw on the ammeter. Anyway, something isn’t right (obviously). I am at a loss at this point any help would be greatly appreciated. I would like to take her to a local car show in two weeks and hope to get this electrical issue fixed by then. She is so close to being back to got to go. Kind of frustrating to have this issue hanging on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1B Keven Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Have you 're-polarized' the regulator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollyDodge Posted September 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Keven, I don't know how to do that. When VPW did the generator they told me they polarized it correctly. How do I do the regulator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollyDodge Posted September 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Keven: I found an online instruction,it says to disconnect the field wire and touch it to bat terminal on the regulator when the engine isn't unning. Is that correct? Edited September 21, 2015 by DollyDodge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 I've always done it by touching briefly the "ARM" to the "BAT" terminals on the VR while the truck is running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 How well grounded is the regulator and the generator? If you have been doing some painting on the firewall or engine that could be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1B Keven Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Keven: I found an online instruction,it says to touch the field and bat terminals on the regulator when the engine isn't running. Is that correct? I've always done it by touching briefly the "ARM" to the "BAT" terminals on the VR while the truck is running. Just like Mark explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 There is nothing in the regulator to polarize. If the generator needs to be polarized it is done at the regulator. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 There is nothing in the regulator to polarize. If the generator needs to be polarized it is done at the regulator. Not entirely true. I just went through this with my local auto electric shop and my generator. We put the generator on the test bench and it tested out OK. I then brought in the regulator that had been on the truck and a new one. He hooked them up and tried it... nothing. Then polarized the Reg/Gen and it would attempt to charge. Then hooked up the new Regulator and tested it without polarizing and no charge. Polarized the new Reg and it charged good. So, if you are only polarizing the generator, and not the regulator, than why would the generator that was just polarized for the last regulator not work until the new regulator was polarized? Merle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollyDodge Posted September 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Tod, I think the Regulator is grounded well. I am not sure about the generator. I did paint everything. How do I check the ground on the regulator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Tod, I think the Regulator is grounded well. I am not sure about the generator. I did paint everything. How do I check the ground on the regulator? With the engine off, I'd measure the resistance between the mounting plate/case on the regulator and the positive (ground) terminal of the battery. If you read anything other than zero you have an issue. Same thing for the generator. Do you have a good ground strap between the body and the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollyDodge Posted September 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Well drat, I just tried the polarization Arm to bat term, no help. Drat, drat, and drat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Tod, I think the Regulator is grounded well. I am not sure about the generator. I did paint everything. How do I check the ground on the regulator? I'd check continuity with a multi meter from the casing of the geni to the ground cable on the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollyDodge Posted September 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) tod: I will try that at home tonight. I do not have a ground strap (there wasn't one when I started work on it), but I was thinking this morning that maybe I should do an engine to frame strap. I think I will put one on for good measure anyway. Edited September 21, 2015 by DollyDodge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulu Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 The engine should always be ground-strapped to the frame. Also to the cowl for good measure, since the dash gets all its grounding by being screwed to the cowl. In any event, adding extra grounds is rarely a bad idea. When checking a charging problem I will first do the voltage/ammeter check & then put a 10 ga jumper wire from the generator case right to the base of the regulator, and check voltage & ammeter again. They nearly always go up a tiny bit because in the circuit I'm replacing cast iron with more conductive copper wire, but sometimes way up, because of a poor ground condition. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollyDodge Posted September 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Ulu: I hate to sound ignorant but how do I do a voltage/ammeter check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent B3B Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 sorry, i don't have a solution..... just following along...... how old is the battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollyDodge Posted September 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Hey Brent, brand new optima 6 volt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Wish I had a good answer for you but I skipped all this and put an single wire alternator on mine. I have a feeling though that it is going to be something relatively simple. Polarization or a bad connection. Something like that. You may have to check continuity on wires from one end of a connection to the other end. When you do find it treat it as a learning experience. It is much better than beating yourself up. Jeff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulu Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Ulu: I hate to sound ignorant but how do I do a voltage/ammeter check? sorry, two checks. Check the output voltage with the engine both stopped and running. Check it at the battery terminal and also at the big wire on the generator. Check the ammeter readings both stopped and running. Basically you've done all that stuff already I believe. I had this happen once and everything looked fine, but charging voltage was a tad lower at the battery than at the generator. It turned out there was hidden corrosion on the generator wire, inside the terminal crimp, under the insulation. At idle it didn't make much difference, but at 3000 RPM you could really tell because the output was over a volt low. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollyDodge Posted September 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Great balls of fire. I am driving home tonight and I start seeing the ammeter jump to positive, then back to 0. Then it went working steady, it came on and had about 10 amps (just guessing) charge, and the voltmeter I installed in her, showed about 6.5 to 7 volts. Way cool if you ask me. At least I now know I either have a wire or ground issue. Amazing a few good bumps in the road made some kind of connection somewhere. I will go through and do the tests suggested today, and put engine grounds on for good measure. I am so happy at least now I knw it can work! Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulu Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 There might be a loose wire inside the generator. Probably rare, but it can happen. I'd still start with some jumpers to make temporary grounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DollyDodge Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 I just had the generator rebuilt. It was doing this before the generator rebuild, which was one of the reason i had the generator rebuilt....grrr, yep I'm going to work on the grounding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Roberts Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Tod, I think the Regulator is grounded well. I am not sure about the generator. I did paint everything. How do I check the ground on the regulator? To make sure that your regulator is grounded make sure that there is no paint under one of the mounting bolts heads and also no paint where the bolt touches the regulator flange . The mounting bolt itself should also be clean enough to ground itself to the firewall . The same procedure goes for your generator . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'd say you need a nice and clean unused new factory Autolite voltage regulator. Did you install a new OE Autolite regulator? Todays new replacement voltage regulators are not very reliable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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