Car is back together but still won’t start!

[Don Coatney]

This is what the distribution tubes look like.

 

 

[Reg Evans]

Those rods do not look like the top of the water dist. tube. You should probably pull yours and see what's up in there.

[Plymouthy Adams]

remnants of the casting process..

[perrymedik]

Yeah, I had just replaced my water distribution tube, and like Don's picture, that's not what those rods looked like.  As remnants of the casting process, the look good just where they are at and I don't see myself even attempting to remove them.  They haven't caused any problems for 65 years, so if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

Thanks all!

 

In the process of lapping the valves.  Loads of fun. . . . . .

[Don Coatney]

Do you have a lapping tool and compound?

 

[perrymedik]

Yes.  I hate the lapping tool!  You have to keep it super clean and even then it still wants to come off after a couple of turns.  It's aggravating.  Only 4 valves left.  Whew!

[Plymouthy Adams]

I still prefer the ole Ouija stick for hand lapping valves...swishy swishy..rotate-swishy swishy..yes the rubber cups do not last forever even with new valve surfaces..

[Merle Coggins]

I didn't see the picture when I first read your post about the foriegn objects. It didn't load on my compter due to a firewall at work. Now that I see it I agree that it's not the WDT. The WDT runs between the valve pockets and the cylinders. It must be remnents of the casting process like Tim said. I'm with you... leave it alone unless it's causing a problem.

 

Merle

[perrymedik]

Got the valves all lapped.  Fun, fun, fun.

 

Started replacing the Freeze Plugs using the Permatex as an added sealant.

 

The freeze plugs there were in there were perfectly flat.   I know to place the new ones in with the curved side facing out, but I am wondering how far to try to expand them.

Searching the forum I’ve only found warnings against over expanding them. I’m not sure if these new ones are supposed to end up flat like the original ones.  They are the 1 5/8 size from NAPA. 

 

Any guidance on how much is enough?  I assume that once they are in and if there is a leak, then a few more loving taps of a hammer are warranted. J

I’ve done two for the night and will tackle the others 3 tomorrow.

 

Thanks!

Cory

 

 

[Merle Coggins]

Looks good to me. I usually use a large diameter punch/drift and hammer to give them a good dimple in the middle.

[TodFitch]

Like Merle said, I use a large diameter drift rather than the smaller one you used.

 

Regarding not having them expanded enough: On my non-bypass style water pump there can be considerable pressure in the block at higher engine RPMs before the thermostat opens. Like when you stay in a hotel by a freeway on-ramp and then go charging on to the freeway with the engine still cold. With the pressurized block a poorly seated core/welch/casting/freeze plug can pop out. Ask me how I know.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I install the semi flat core plugs with a 1-1/2" diameter heavy weight flat driver to drive the plugs not quite flat.

Two smacks with a 2-1/2lb hammer-done.

I also clean the core plug seat recess raelly well and use a small thin bead of JB weld quick as a sealant and to prevent any possibility of leaks and pop outs especially on the later V8 engines.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Dodgeb4ya

[Don Coatney]

Another opportunity for used king pins.

 

[perrymedik]

Merle Coggins / TodFitch: I know that it looks like a small dimple, but the drift I am using is 1/2"D.  It's the biggest I have.  I guess I could take an impact socket of a larger size.  Would give me a little more swing room too.  

 

Dodgeb4ya: I like the JB Weld idea to make sure that they don't fall out.  I already have two in using Permatex as was recommended.  If for some reason they do pop out, I will definitely use that when I put them back in!

 

Don Coatley:  I am envious of your King Pin collection.  I don't have any, but man-oh-man do they look handy!!

 

I'm off to put the last 3 in.  I'm not looking forward to the upper and lower rear ones.  Especially the lower rear one.  Tight space.  And YES, I know that it would be easier if the engine weren't in the car! LOL! Moving on!!

 

Thanks for the info on how far to bang these things in!!!  I feel a bit more confident about them now! 

[Ulu]

I've always used a light sealant like Permatex, but if you use an epoxy like JB Weld, will the things ever pop out if the block freezes?

[Don Coatney]

They are called many things. Welsh plugs, expansion plugs, freeze plugs, etc. But there intended purpose is to cover the hole after sand removal from the engine block casting process. They offer little if any freeze protection. This from Wikipedia.

 

Freeze plug myth[edit]

A true freeze plug would be an expansion plug located in the side of an engine block that is supposed to protect the block against freeze damage. Water expands when it turns to ice, and if the coolant does not have enough antifreeze protection it can freeze and crack the engine block. The freeze plugs (there are usually several) will supposedly pop out under such conditions, to relieve internal pressure on the block.

As far as can be determined^{[citation needed]} this is an "urban legend". No manufacturer has come forward and stated that the holes in the side of any engine block are there for freeze protection. It is possible and even likely, that freezing water will push a core plug out. If the water doesn't freeze solid it is possible that there will be no damage to the block, but in most cases of a "hard freeze", the water jackets in the block will be cracked as well.

[_shel_ny]

Ball peen hammer works well as a substitute for a drift. Position it and strike it with another hammer just as you would a drift.

 

Now for the warnings about striking a hammer with another hammer........................................

 

.................................

 

.................................

 

.................................

 

 

Busted by myth busters. You will not be striking it that hard anyway. Chips of hammer will not fly off and strike you, but to comply with OSHA go ahead and wear some long cuff welders gloves, safety glasses and goggles, and close your eyes when you do it

[perrymedik]

Part Numbers needed:

 

I have the wrong parts manual.  I have the P-15 Parts book, but I have a P-18.  Most of the engine items have been correct when ordering, but I have received a few wrong ones too and was wanting to verify numbers before I ordered this bolt for the Cylinder Head Cover.

 

 

It sits in the second bolt hole back from the front of the drivers’ side, and the top screw serves as the connection point for the grounding cable from the battery.

 

Under Group 8 my Parts Book lists the following potential parts:

 

 SCREW, Generator Bracket and Ground Terminal (866 890)

 

And ‘Attached Standard Parts’

Bolt, hex-hd., S., cd-pltd, 7/16”-14 x 1” (122 253)

Washer, lock, med., S., cd-pltd., 7/16” (120 383)

 

However there are no associated pictures to verify this.  Plus the bolt listed is only 1” long.

 

In Group 9, under  Part Type Code it lists 3 Screws.

 

The first line item I know are the 20 regular bolts. I am wondering if the second line item might be what I am looking for, but it says it is used with an oil filter and that’s at the rear of the engine.  So that still doesn’t make sense.

 

 

I am wondering if my grounding cable is not configured correctly, because this picture makes it look like it goes down by the Generator somewhere.

 

 

Then again, this could all be because I have the wrong Parts manual.  I do have the correct one on order but it is being sent by USPS Media Mail, so who knows how long that’s going to take to get here. I’d like to get the parts on order sooner then later so that I can have everything on hand to begin re-assembly when I get back from TAD and Thanksgiving Leave in Massachusetts.

 

I have looked at the following web sites with no luck:

Andy Bernbaum

Collectors Auto Supply (a possibility, but not sure.  E-mail sent.)

Vintage Power Wagons

Egge

 

If anyone has any knowledge of what is going on here, I would appreciate the info, and applicable part numbers for both of the bolts.

 

Thanks for the help!!

Cory

 

P.S. If my posts seem long its  because I want to be thorough, and also show that I am doing my homework before I post.

[greg g]

the grounding cable went there or on some cars to the genny bracket bolt.  Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for the difference.  Typically the one going to the bolt was a braided uninsulated strap deal, while the one that went to the gen bracket was an insulated cable.  If you soak that bolt in some vinegar for a few days it will clean up from rust.  A little wire wheel treatment after the soak will make it useable again.  I have used two more to hold pivots for my home made dual carb linkage.

[Dave72dt]

If you notice, the first screw part # is the same as the last. Without a filter, as some of the se engines came, there was no need for different bolts so 21 of the same were used. Mounting a filter as they did required different version for some bolts, apparently 3 of them and 18 of the standard bolts so if your other bolts measure the same as the first listing, 7/16 C x 2 13/16, ordering one of that other # should get you one with the head tapped for use as a cable ground/

[Don Coatney]

I have re-used the head bolts on most every Mopar flathead I have worked on. Some argue that the old bolts have stretched threads and will not torque correctly. If I were working on an engine with 12/1 compression this might be an issue but with these low compression engines I have never had a failure due to using old head bolts. Suggest you save your money. However if you do elect to buy replacements make sure you get bolts with an undercut shank such as you have pictured above. If the shank is full size it will rust fast to the head and will most likely break when you try and remove it.

 

Pictured below is my battery to engine ground strap on my P-15.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

one should always check the condition of the head bolts..but given these are low torque values reuse if common practice but nothing wrong if you choose always to renew...it is not like modern head bolts used on aluminum heads where angle torque is required...the angle torque is the added extreme that stretches bolts..

[Ulu]

Headbolts usually stretch though the top couple threads (the un-engaged threads) and you can detect this if you measure the threads with a dial caliper. The thread diameter will literally shrink. The pitch will increase.

[Ulu]

Ball peen hammer works well as a substitute for a drift. Position it and strike it with another hammer just as you would a drift.

 

Now for the warnings about striking a hammer with another hammer........................................

 

 

Busted by myth busters. You will not be striking it that hard anyway. Chips of hammer will not fly off and strike you, but to comply with OSHA go ahead and wear some long cuff welders gloves, safety glasses and goggles, and close your eyes when you do it

 

I wonder how all those chips got in my old hammers? ;-)

 

Anyhow, I think a ball-pein is too round. I hit mine with a deep socket turned backwards.

 

BTW, my ground strap was attached at the same location as Don shows above.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Ulu

[perrymedik]

Just wanted to get some input on the Cylinder Head Cover Bolts.

 

I took the advice to soak the bolt overnight then wire brush it.

 

It did seem to clean up pretty well, but I did notice a lot of pitting, but not in the threads.  Just wanted to know if you think that this will withstand the 65-70 ft. lbs. of torque that the Service Manual says the need to be tightened too.

 

If so, then I’ll just re-use the bolts like Don Coatney has done and save myself some cash.

 

Thanks!

 

Cory