Dodgeb4ya Posted August 29, 2014 Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 A picture of the frame number that matches the engine number on a 1948 Chrysler NY business cpe I'm working on.. When the car was first licensed I think this was the title number in most cases. Not the # on the A pillar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49roadster Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Could have fooled me; my 47 has always been a California car, and it is registered with the body number, so I didn't have anything to worry about when I changed the engine. Marty Prior to 1955 the "pink slip" asked for engine number. Also the older cars had the engine number stamped on the frame Later they put the vin. You were required to notify DMV of a engine change within 10 or 30 days, I forget witch. Retired Calif. cop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulu Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Aw Phooie! I posted that from an account I've never used & I just need to delete it. <edit...Thanks to whomever did delete the post. > I think I actually have another very old account here (caddmannq) that I need to track down & delete as well. Here's the text: OK I gotta go look at my P-15 because it was built & titled in California by the Briggs body number I believe. That's the number on the metal tag screwed to the firewall. I don't think my car has a tag on the door post. I didn't know the frame had a number at all. I'll have to go wash mine & look. But I know for a fact that the Briggs body number on the tin tag is the correct one for my car, as the same number was found chalked on the original maroon paint, under the current green paint, on the cowl, under the left front fender. When I bought my car I didn't know that the engine had "bad" numbers. There's a cast in "knurl" pattern on the block where the numbers are stamped, and if you try to grind off the numbers and change them the knurl pattern is ruined which makes the crime obvious. Well my numbers were simply obliterated with a chisel. Clearly the engine was once "hot", so I eventually got rid of that block. But now I need to go look at my title too. With those effaced numbers on the block, there's a slim possibility that none of my current numbers match the title! I believe they do, because I believe this car was resurrected in the 70's and a new title was issued from the body number. Edited October 10, 2014 by Ulu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 When I registered my '38 5 years ago, the CA DMV "inspector"(?) checked (and used) the engine# from the PO's title (which also is the same as the # stamped on my frame). There is also a tag on my firewall with a different #....and a tag on the right front door opening (near the hinge) with the serial#. Same thing when I registered my '62 HD Panhead 20 years ago, they used the engine# on the title, which at that time, there were no other #'s on a motorcycle....as far as I know. I think HD started stamping #'s on the frame around '70 or so, which the DMV recognizes on the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SQ4MN Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Nevada and California both will issue blue tags. They rivet the new blue tag to a pillar and that becomes your new number. This happens if they know the car isn't stolen but the paperwork is somehow not to their liking. I am currently waiting for the 48 Plymouth I bought in California to arrive in Las Vegas. Hopefully the paperwork is OK but I know the engine has been changed so if its registered by an engine number I will have some problems. On the other hand if they can see the old engine number on the rear left frame rail I think I can convince them that everything is fine, Can that number be seen with the body on the car? My other choice would be to leave it registered to me in California as I have an address there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinsailor Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 It can, but they might have to strain a little. Chances are you'll have to clean it up some, maybe even sand it so it's readable. Even then, it it's rusted it may not all be legible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) Nevada and California both will issue blue tags. They rivet the new blue tag to a pillar and that becomes your new number. This happens if they know the car isn't stolen but the paperwork is somehow not to their liking. I am currently waiting for the 48 Plymouth I bought in California to arrive in Las Vegas. Hopefully the paperwork is OK but I know the engine has been changed so if its registered by an engine number I will have some problems. On the other hand if they can see the old engine number on the rear left frame rail I think I can convince them that everything is fine, Can that number be seen with the body on the car? My other choice would be to leave it registered to me in California as I have an address there too. I know they issue blue tags for motorcycles (which I personally wouldn't want)....not the same....considered "special construction". I wasn't aware they were issued for cars, probably since I haven't had to deal with it. The frame# is on the driver's side outside frame rail, just behind the rear axle kick up (on my '38, '48 may be similar)....cleaned up or lightly sanded to expose. Edited October 10, 2014 by deathbound 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbone85737 Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 I could write pages ! Hope it's easier than NC ! NOWHERE is worse than North Carolina 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SQ4MN Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 I know they issue blue tags for motorcycles (which I personally wouldn't want)....not the same....considered "special construction". I wasn't aware they were issued for cars, probably since I haven't had to deal with it. The frame# is on the driver's side outside frame rail, just behind the rear axle kick up (on my '38, '48 may be similar)....cleaned up or lightly sanded to expose. I never wanted one on my bikes as it made it worth less and was ugly. I don't want one on my Plymouth either for the same reasons. If the car is not stolen but has only had a different motor put in after more than 60 years I don't see why I need one other than government foolishness. There is always a way to get around everything so I'm not worried. In fact it may be registered by the door pillar number if I'm lucky. My car supposedly was bought new in California and there was another fellow that replied to this post that said his California 48 Plymouth was not registered by the engine number. On our old bikes we only had engine numbers, no frame numbers at all but that all changed eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SQ4MN Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) I know they issue blue tags for motorcycles (which I personally wouldn't want)....not the same....considered "special construction". I wasn't aware they were issued for cars, probably since I haven't had to deal with it. The frame# is on the driver's side outside frame rail, just behind the rear axle kick up (on my '38, '48 may be similar)....cleaned up or lightly sanded to expose. Here in the Philippines they take a regular pencil and rub it on the area where the numbers are, being careful not to get the lead coating into the numbers themselves. Then they take a piece of clear tape and put it over that area, when they peel the tape up and the lead other than in the grooves of the numbers is on the tape. Then they stick it on a piece of paper and you can see the numbers clearly, they leave the tape attached to the original title. Edited October 10, 2014 by SQ4MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulu Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 OK I had a good time sanding the frame but I did indeed find frame numbers on the frame, in the same spot as shown on the Chrysler above. The frame reads: P15 433184 and that's the only number shown on my title except the document number. The Briggs body number is 502-LA A-8621 It's embossed on a brite-dipped tin tag on the cowl, right above the steering column. & that's also the number I found chalked on the body, under the paint, on a hidden area of the cowl. But there is also a flat, un-embossed, plain galvanized tin tag on the driver's A-post, which occupies the same spot as the courtesy light switch on the passenger's side, being directly below the top hinge pocket. It was flat, unadorned, and unmarked except for the number 25023808. I assume that's the Plymouth assembly sheet number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinsailor Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 That is the serial number, which many jurisdictions would use as the VIN. If possible, I'd get it changed to that, instead of the motor number, to avoid problems down the road. Some of those problems are outlined above. In Missouri it's a simple process, and done in conjunction with registering it, it's free. Probably not so simple in some other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel_ny Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) 1947 Special Deluxe Business Coupe $1,209 2,982 Detroit: 11643104-11854385 Los Angeles: 25009753-25035585 Evansville: 20185186-20233167 Club Coupe $1,254 3,057 Detroit: 11643104-11854385 Los Angeles: 25009753-25035585 Evansville: 20185186-20233167 Edited October 10, 2014 by shel_ny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyHarold Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 I've changed the paperwork from engine number to serial number on all of my old Plymouths. It used to be fairly easy in New York; you just needed a pencil tracing of the doorpost serial number and an insurance card in your name with the serial number not the motor number. Going forward, the serial number is the better number to use, especially if you want to drop a small-block Chevy in your car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmiller Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Wow, 39 posts (now 40) and the OP never came back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulu Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Wow, 39 posts (now 40) and the OP never came back. Eh? Well we had fun anyhow. I would think about changing the title but I hate to open a can of worms. Since the number it's titled to is the frame number too, I don't see any issues myself. Edited October 11, 2014 by Ulu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40desoto Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 On 10/10/2014 at 4:54 PM, jcmiller said: Wow, 39 posts (now 40) and the OP never came back. Im back!! never did take the risk of going to the DMV to convert my title to match the number somewhere on the body/frame. Im curious again and will check the rear frame piece for a number. Here is my current status; My 1940 Desoto coupe was purchased in 2014 and transfered title in California easily. They never looked at the car. When I decided to pull the engine for swap consideration I noticed that the VIN was stamped on the engine and nowhere else on the car (havent checked frame). I still havent installed a different engine. If I find out the number is stamped on the frame, Im good to go. If its not I have some decisions to make! Thank you all for your input and sharing your experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eneto-55 Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Maybe this isn't the best thread for this question, but does anyone know whether Nebraska used the actual Serial Number, or the Engine number on vehicles back in the early 60's? (I have a 49 P-15 which I bought for a parts car back in 81 or so, and several years ago I requested lost title info, but I never thought to use the engine number. I actually don't have the engine anymore, as it was blown - hole in the block - when I bought it, and I scrapped it way back when. But I figure I could get the frame number, and try that, if that might work. But it was last tagged in 61 or so, so there are probably no records back that far anyway. I don't have the vehicle's history before that, as to whether it was originally registered there in Nebraska, or how long it was there if originally sold elsewhere.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40desoto Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 7 hours ago, 40desoto said: Im back!! never did take the risk of going to the DMV to convert my title to match the number somewhere on the body/frame. Im curious again and will check the rear frame piece for a number. Here is my current status; My 1940 Desoto coupe was purchased in 2014 and transfered title in California easily. They never looked at the car. When I decided to pull the engine for swap consideration I noticed that the VIN was stamped on the engine and nowhere else on the car (havent checked frame). I still havent installed a different engine. If I find out the number is stamped on the frame, Im good to go. If its not I have some decisions to make! Thank you all for your input and sharing your experience. I just realized that I wasn't the OP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 What happens when a full front clip is swapped in, or a V8 replaces an inline 6? Those are common swaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40desoto Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 I 12 hours ago, pflaming said: What happens when a full front clip is swapped in, or a V8 replaces an inline 6? Those are common swaps. I checked mine last night and my rear, driver side of the rear frame (right behind the wheel) and unfortunately the number there does not match the engine number (which is off the car). My title has the number on the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40desoto Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los_Control Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Excuse me for asking in this thread, there is a lot of good info here. I have a 1952 truck that want to file for a lost title, I wonder if the trucks also have a Number on the frame, in the same location? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 4 hours ago, 40desoto said: Since you are in Ca. I may have some info for you. Choices to change title # from motor # to frame #. 1. Call your local CHP office and arrange a meeting with their officer that verifies these type of issues. Most cover a whole county- therefore ask for appointment to meet with him/her at the office closest to you. Take car and block with the correct # -drive or trailer/ or take all paper work and many pics including what you have posted if not possible to take car/motor now. 2. Contact a DMV licensed verifier to come to you ( they are listed on a computer search). Several hundred costs for them to come to your location but they also collect any fees needed and handle all paper work -you just need to pay up and watch your mailbox! DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 3 hours ago, Los_Control said: Excuse me for asking in this thread, there is a lot of good info here. I have a 1952 truck that want to file for a lost title, I wonder if the trucks also have a Number on the frame, in the same location? truck should have the serial # on the frame in front of the LF spring hanger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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