Having SERIOUS Trouble getting truck to start!!!!!

[fortunateson]

 I have a '42 Fargo with an early 50's Cdn Dodge engine and I can't get the bugger to start .  It used to but not very well unless I waived the cutting torch at it!  I have a rebuilt carb, I set the distributor to TDC  (as best as I could off of cyl. #6 since the timing marks oon the crank pulley must have been abducted by aliens), new points and condensor.  I have about 1/4 inch spark when grounding the plug wire, compression when I checked years ago was about 105-115 across all cylinders without having two low clinders adjacent to each other.  Battery is well grounded.  I'm going to 8x check that the carb is squirting correctly today.  My only other thing to replce would be the coil but it is the type that is connected to the ignition switch through the firewall with on lead (-) going to the distributor along with the main coil wire.  This has been a royal pain in th ebutt for so many years to the point I give up and wait months before going back to more misery.  I need all the help I can get and so does my truck!!!  Thanks.

[fortunateson]

 I have a '42 fargo with an early 50's Cdn Dodge engine and I can't get the bugger to start .  It used to but not very well unless I waived the cutting torch at it!  I have a rebuilt carb, I set the distributor to TDC  (as best as I could off of cyl. #6 since the timing marks oon the crank pulley must have been abducted by aliens), new points and condensor.  I have about 1/4 inch spark when grounding the plug wire, compression when I checked years ago was about 105-115 across all cylinders without having two low clinders adjacent to each other.  Battery is well ground.  I'm going to 8x check that the carb is squirting correctly today.  My only other thing to replce would be the coil but it is the type that is connected to the ignition switch through the firewall with on lead (-) going to the distributor along with the main coil wire.  This has been a royal pain in th ebutt for so many years to the point I give up and wait months before going back to more misery.  I need all the help I can get and so does my truck!!!  Thanks.

[busycoupe]

The quarter inch spark would seem to indicate that your coil and points are good. You said you checked compression several years ago. Has the truck been sitting since? Perhaps several valves are stuck open. The other possibility is that the timing is way off. You said that you found TDC on cyl 6. Presumably you did this by inserting a wire into the inspection hole above the piston. Is it possible that the ignition timing is 180 degrees off? The plugs could be firing on the exhaust stroke.

[NiftyFifty]

If you have strong spark, then a coil isn't the answer, but your timing can go either way, most likely advanced, but not too far. Your best bet is check your carb to ensure its pumping a good shot in, make sure your choke works,and then once you have that, play with your plugs and wires to make sure their all sparking.

Keep us posted

[Don Coatney]

Three things are required for an engine to start and run.

 

1) compression

 

2) a source of fuel

 

3) spark delivered at the right time

 

 

What are you missing?

[pflaming]

The distributor has two adjustments on the bottom. One is to the block the other is under the distributor . For restarting an engine after working on the distributor. where would be the best locations to start. For example both in the center of the adjusting slot? If these two are far off, will that preclude the starting of the eingine?

[P15-D24]

Pull the plugs, then pull the front valve cover and verify you can identify TDC on #1. As you manually turn the engine over it will be pretty obvious when it is at TDC with both valves closed. Then static time it to TDC or a 3-5 degrees advanced. 

Did you inspect/replace rotor and cap or the plug wires? 

[NiftyFifty]

Even easier, just have someone crank the engine while you make slight timing adj, its a starting point. Listen the one holding the distb to the block but not so lose that it moves on its own without some help

[pflaming]

"Loosen the one [adjustment bolt] which holds the distributor to the block but not so loose that it moves on its own" . Interpretation: slowly rotate the distributor, when the timing is 'close' the engine will start. Is this a fair statement?

That is the adjustment for the bolt on the block, now where is the adjustment bolt set that is under the distributor? (I can't get Phoenix to start either and I''m guessing that the problem is in these two adjustments. Before the 'fire' the engine always started on the 2nd revolution, I think I could have started it with a crank.

So Fortunateson, I've very interested in this thread. I trust my 'interpretation' is correct.

[fortunateson]

Well I'm hoping to get back on this tomorrow.  This engine has always been a bugger to start.   I know the compression isn't perfect but I think it should be OK.  The plugs are new as are the points and condensor....  I'll 2x check the spark (maybe reset the point gap down to 18 as an old mechanic suggested.  The cap doesn't have any signs of carbon tracking or cracks.  I have two rotors; one short the other long which I may swap in and out to see if that changes things.  I'll also check how much gas is being pumped into the carb when pedal pumped.  Maybe plug wires?  I've been fighting this for quite some time but I'm still in there fighting.  I want to try out the 3.54 rear gears I installed in place of the original 4.1 set but first I have to get it to run.  Maybe I'll wave the cutting torch at it again!  Thanks for all the suggestions.

Edited August 17, 2014 by fortunateson

[fortunateson]

The quarter inch spark would seem to indicate that your coil and points are good. You said you checked compression several years ago. Has the truck been sitting since? Perhaps several valves are stuck open. The other possibility is that the timing is way off. You said that you found TDC on cyl 6. Presumably you did this by inserting a wire into the inspection hole above the piston. Is it possible that the ignition timing is 180 degrees off? The plugs could be firing on the exhaust stroke.

I did check it with a wire in the inspection hole.  I thought about that but the rotor is pointing at about 7:00 or 8:00 which is what the manual illustrates.  If I was off by 180 degrees would it not point around 4:00 or 5:00?  I may have exaggerated the spark distance it could be closer to 1/8".  I appreciate you feedback.  Keep them coming.  Thanks.

[Don Coatney]

Correctly static timing of the engine is a very small window. Good instructions on how to do this can be found in  the resources section of this webpage. If you take the time to insure your engine is correctly static timed and all other system problems are corrected the chance of starting is greatly improved.

[halffast52]

if the oil pump was changed and not indexed your number 1 can be anywhere besides 7 o'clock when I rebuilt my 218 I didn't index it (didn't know any better at the time) so my number 1 is at 11 o'clock .. the best way to find tdc is pull the # 1 plug put your thumb over the the hole and spin the engine over when you feel the compression push your thumb off stop and then see where your rotor is pointing if it is not at 7 o'clock simply start with the #1 wire at wherever the rotor points

[sorensen_dk]

Recently another member had huge problems getting his engine running....have a look at this thread - packed with god info:

 

http://p15-d24.com/topic/36010-new-guy-with-1950-desoto-starting-issue/

 

Apparently his timing was way off. I would suspect timing issue if engine does not fire at all.

 

Tom

[Don Coatney]

If you read this linked thread in its entirety you may get a better understanding of what is going on.

 

http://p15-d24.com/topic/36010-new-guy-with-1950-desoto-starting-issue/

[Jeff Balazs]

Well it sure sounds like a careful timing and ignition system check is in order.

 

If it has always been hard to start then I would guess that it is not safe to make too many assumptions about how well it was set up when the engine swap was done. By that I mean you may have several items contributing to this hard starting.

 

The only way you are going to get this all sorted out is by a thorough and methodical check of each system. Besides the timing..... check to see that each cylinder is getting a good spark. Make certain you are getting fuel to the carb and that the accelerator pump is working as it should. If it has been setting for a long time pull the carb and check function and cleanliness. If the gas is old it could be part of the problem. You can cobble up a temp supply and use fresh gas if necessary.

 

Once you do get it running I would suggest putting a vacuum gauge on it and study the readings you get. You may have a vacuum leak or valves that are not functioning properly. You will be able to spot this and these conditions do contribute to hard starting.

 

Hth and have lots of patience. These are simple engines but all it takes is a few settings to be off a bit and they can get fussy.

Jeff

[Niel Hoback]

Was it running when parked?  Don't move the distributor, other than slight timing adjustments,  if it was.

[pflaming]

We tend to forget that these engines, properly timed, were started with a crank, and for the younger guys, that was with ONE PULL. Mine was lke that before the fire and I will get it back there again. I want to be able when I am on the street, to trun on the key get out my crank and start it at the curb. Go to a busy curb side Starbucks, set a McDonald's coffee cup on the fender, start the engine and drive off! Now that would be a kick!!!!

[Don Coatney]

The kick would be when you spill the hot mickeyd's koffee in your crotch

[Plymouthy Adams]

the kick would be the backfire that would shatter the arm at the elbow..so yes..do this in front of a crowd so someone can call 911

[BigDaddyO]

the kick would be the backfire that would shatter the arm at the elbow..so yes..do this in front of a crowd so someone can call 911

And film it for You Tube.

[Plymouthy Adams]

15 minutes of fame....15 weeks of pain

[Young Ed]

Well I'm hoping to get back on this tomorrow.  This engine has always been a bugger to start.   I know the compression isn't perfect but I think it should be OK.  The plugs are new as are the points and condensor....  I'll 2x check the spark (maybe reset the point gap down to 18 as an old mechanic suggested.  The cap doesn't have any signs of carbon tracking or cracks.  I have two rotors; one short the other long which I may swap in and out to see if that changes things.  I'll also check how much gas is being pumped into the carb when pedal pumped.  Maybe plug wires?  I've been fighting this for quite some time but I'm still in there fighting.  I want to try out the 3.54 rear gears I installed in place of the original 4.1 set but first I have to get it to run.  Maybe I'll wave the cutting torch at it again!  Thanks for all the suggestions.

There are multiple rotors for these flathead distributors but only 1 is proper for each model. You  need to determine which one is correct and stick to it. There are no short/long ones that interchange as far as I know.

[Don Coatney]

Closest thing I could find on hand cranking an old truck. Guy must be a plumber

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSUTy2viQyo

[55 Fargo]

I did check it with a wire in the inspection hole.  I thought about that but the rotor is pointing at about 7:00 or 8:00 which is what the manual illustrates.  If I was off by 180 degrees would it not point around 4:00 or 5:00?  I may have exaggerated the spark distance it could be closer to 1/8".  I appreciate you feedback.  Keep them coming.  Thanks.

Do another compression test, if you have spark, and timing is half a$$ed close, and there is fuel, then it should fire.

If the fire is good, timing is reasonably close, no stuck valves, then drop a few ounces of gas into the carb, and fire this old girl to life.

I had a problem a few years ago, could not get spark though, it turn out to be the coil lead to dizzy was grounding out on the distributor housing, corrected that and she roared to life....Good Luck and keep us posted, but do follow a systematic process of elimination method, instead of trying this then that and ending up chasing your tail....