Front Engine mount modification to fit 23" block into 25" body

[40desoto]

Does anyone happen to have any pictures of a modified front engine mount to fit a 23in block into a body designed for a 25in block?   Ive researched and have been recommended to weld some tabs and extend the mounting holes on the frame but Im wondering if anyone has some pictures of this?  What Im questioning is the strenght and if will support the engines weight.  Currently the mount has about a 1 1/2 in tab and I think extending it another 2" will not support the weight. 

 

Also, does anyone have a good source for a spacer to move the fan two inches closer to the radiator?

 

 

[wayfarer]

I can't help with the front mount but there are plenty of fan spacers on ebay if you only ask....

[TodFitch]

Rumor has it that the cars which were sold in Canada with a 25" block and in the US with a 23" block could have the radiator position changed by the way the radiator mount was installed. You might want to check and see if that holds true for the car you are working on.

[RobertKB]

Wouldn't it be easier to look for a 25" engine?? A lot less work and more HP plus it is right for the car. If the 23" is in good condition you might be able to work a swap or sell it. Whatever you decide, good luck with your project. Just my two cents worth.

Edited December 19, 2013 by RobertKB

[RobertKB]

On ‎2013‎-‎12‎-‎19 at 3:06 PM, TodFitch said:

Rumor has it that the cars which were sold in Canada with a 25" block and in the US with a 23" block could have the radiator position changed by the way the radiator mount was installed. You might want to check and see if that holds true for the car you are working on.

 

Tod, on the Canadian cars the cut out at the front of the frame is more recessed to take the extra 2" as well as the rad support change you mentioned. That's why Don Coatney had to cut out from that area when he put the longer engine in his Plymouth. There is a bit more to it than most people realize. I posted a picture of that area of my '51 Canadian Dodge D39 business coupe and compared it to a US car and you can see the difference. Sure makes finding an engine easy up here as all Canadian cars from 1938 onward had the 25" engine. In my '38 Chrysler I have a 251 from a '55 Two Ton truck and unless I tell people the miniscule differences no one knows. I used all the '38 parts on it like the points, distributor, bell housing, etc. Everything just bolts right on.

Edited November 2, 2016 by RobertKB
spelling

[40desoto]

Wouldn't it be easier to look for a 25" engine?? A lot less work and more HP plus it is right for the car. If the 23" is in good condition you might be able to work a swap or sell it. Whatever you decide, good luck with your project. Just my two cents worth.

It was all in the cost of rebuilding my 25"  251 block or getting a great steal on a freshly rebuilt 230 with some speed goodies and some other accessories. 

 

In the future I do want to look for a 25' rebuildable block and slowly rebuild it.  For know I just really need to get the car on the road in an affordable manner and stay interested in the project.

[RobertKB]

It was all in the cost of rebuilding my 25"  251 block or getting a great steal on a freshly rebuilt 230 with some speed goodies and some other accessories. 

 

In the future I do want to look for a 25' rebuildable block and slowly rebuild it.  For know I just really need to get the car on the road in an affordable manner and stay interested in the project.

 

Gotcha. Can't answer your original question but I am sure others will be able to. As said, good luck with the project and keep your interest going. I am assuming you are working on a '40 Desoto and they are a nice looking car.

[Young Ed]

See if you can find a post by Reg Evans or PM him about his long block install. He welded 2 tabs to put a long block into his pickup. As for the radiator try and get one from a 23" equiped car or see if a radiator shop can redo the side mounts.

[greg g]

Didn't some one here cut off the "L" portion on the bottom, turn them 180 and weld them back on, then slot the hole in the frame a half inch or so?

[Don Coatney]

Didn't some one here cut off the "L" portion on the bottom, turn them 180 and weld them back on, then slot the hole in the frame a half inch or so?

I recall seeing pictures of such. Was it Reg Evans?

[desoto1939]

Question:

If you put the smaller 23 inch engine in the car and then the bell housing and then tranny I would also think that you are going to be short in the length at somepoint in the driveshaft trying to matchup. Unless if you bring the front mount back the necessay distance to hold the front of the motor.

 

I might be wrong but just thought of this possible issue.

 

If this is true and I am not a mechanic, then your additioanl cost of fabrications and other items might comeout to be equal to the cost of the 25 inch block rebuild and then if you do find a good 25 long block then you have to undo allthat you did to fit the 23 inch block. Am i correct in thinking this way.

 

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[40desoto]

Didn't some one here cut off the "L" portion on the bottom, turn them 180 and weld them back on, then slot the hole in the frame a half inch or so?

Thank you Greg!   Didnt think of that.  That does sound like a great idea because the mount has a crease on the L shaped section that Im assuming that crease is used for sturdiness and flipping this section will keep that crease.

[40desoto]

Question:

If you put the smaller 23 inch engine in the car and then the bell housing and then tranny I would also think that you are going to be short in the length at somepoint in the driveshaft trying to matchup. Unless if you bring the front mount back the necessay distance to hold the front of the motor.

 

I might be wrong but just thought of this possible issue.

 

If this is true and I am not a mechanic, then your additioanl cost of fabrications and other items might comeout to be equal to the cost of the 25 inch block rebuild and then if you do find a good 25 long block then you have to undo allthat you did to fit the 23 inch block. Am i correct in thinking this way.

 

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

 

Thank You Rich.  Im using the original Bellhousing and bolting a T5 5 speed on it.  I will have to get a modified drive shaft anyways.  Im keeping all of the old parts so when and If I do go back to the long block.

The only thing that will be 'cut' and modified will be the front engine mount (which I have 3 of) and a small portion of the rubber busing for the Bellhousing mount (rear motot mounts?)

 

 

[desoto1939]

40Desoto:

 

Ok thanks for getting back to me.  When getting a new drive shaft figure about 400 dollars. But also inquure if the same unit can be used when you go back to the 25 inch block.

The newer style will have the spicer ujoints which are the modern cross tyrpe joints that we all are used to seeing. These will be on both end of the driveshaft. The end and the trans will have a slip joint inwhich this ends slides into the the driveshaft in a keyway and then there is a rings that locks the two pieces in place. 

 

So instead of using the old style Pin and Trunion the newer style Spicer will work but why spend $00 twice maybe you can get in made so that you only have to spend for a single driveshaft.

 

Also suggest that you get an extr set of u joints with the shaft.  This way you will have them if ever needed.  I do have the original style Pin and Trunion U joints that will fit your car and this includes the housing and the internals and also the leather boots.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[40desoto]

Thank You Rich, Good info!  I will keep in mind.

By the way you send me an email regarding some catalogs back in January..  Didnt think I would need much of that... and know Im in desparate need.    LOL 

I will look through my old emails and might inquire with you about one or two..

[Don Coatney]

The rear engine mounts are on the bell housing and the bell housing will not move. If you keep the stock transmission no driveshaft modifications are required. When I did the upgrade to the T-5 I had a new driveshaft fabricated and if I recall the cost was less than two hundred dollars and this included upgraded universal joints front and rear.

 

On the front engine mounts you may be able to simply drill 4 new holes. That is what I did but my new holes were 2" towards the front as I installed the longer Desoto engine.

[Plymouthy Adams]

welding on a set of frame extenders here would not be a bit hard to do and should not be at a high cost either..I do similar in my clip jobs as I usually move the engine back another 7 to 8 inches beyond its factory set up on install to the older cars..(reverse cab forward mod)  easy to mock these in cardboard..then fabricate out of metal ...

Edited December 21, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams

[40desoto]

Thank you. Considering the weight of the engine, what guage steel would bevrecommended and is there any other support that would be recommended?

[Plymouthy Adams]

40soto...normally I have section of old frames here I use for shaping this stuff..if you need a 90 degree roll in there it is already pre-bent...I also have some approx 3/32 steel I use for engine mount fabrication.(grab at Lowes)..it is equal to all the stocks stuff of modern V-8's etc..you should be able to form this way...on the car by doing the vertical metal shaped to fit the vertical section of the cross member and weld this in place and then weld on the top hat that you can drill for the mounting U-blot when final alignment of the engine is established..you need to have the piece a bit in vertical length to give structural support as the vertical wall is going to be working as a strengthening gusset...open at the bottom for access to nut up the u-bolt...

[40desoto]

So heres how short the mounts are to the frame.  Im thinking just a 4-5inch plate in the bottom to allow to bolt to frame on one end and to mount on the other and then once aligned welding a support on the bottom from the frame to the plate.

 

[greg g]

how about a piece of flat steel with a couple of studs welded on?  Or some bolts from the under side welded on and ground down.  

[greg g]

how about a piece of flat steel with a couple of studs welded on?  Or some bolts from the under side welded on and ground down.  Click it there is a file there.

Edited December 24, 2013 by greg g

[Plymouthy Adams]

unless the plate is gusseted to the cross member it will eventually flip and flop and pull the front mounting bolts loose...if you have qualms against welding to the cross member or possibly not a welder on hand...at least do the fabrication with winged gussets so they can be mounted to the cross member with the lower section setting on the lip ..there is access from below to bolt..

[40desoto]

Almost three years later and I just purchased a 25"  Chrystler block. 

Ill be selling the 23" block. 

I got so caught up with family and making some extra $ doing other people's car that I never did install the 23" block

im looking forward to picking up a dual cab  intake and dual  exhaust manifold for the 25" soon

 

 

[desoto1939]

40Desoto:  Glad that you are putting in the 25 inchblock and not modifying the car to use the 23 inch block.  I still have the catalogs and have also gotten some more. The 2017 National Desoto Convention and car shw will be held in San Dieago in late August of 2017.  Are you a member of the NDC, if not would suggest that you join.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Edited November 2, 2016 by desoto1939