1955 Plymouth Plaza wagon project

[Dave72dt]

If you are expecting to have the car judged, get the rules as they apply to the show and your class and build accordingly.

[Young Ed]

Chris if you are thinking POC judging send me a PM-I've done it 4-5 times.

[TodFitch]

I will consider doing this as I am rebuilding the brakes. I want the car as close as original for certain shows that I have aspirations to be in, however would it count against me to make changes for safety reasons? I know that some things such as seat belts are allowed, but I'm not sure about other changes. Thank you for the advise.

Plymouth Owners Club deducts for non-original mechanicals including brakes. I believe the AACA does too.

 

Both clubs allow seat belts if installed in a manner appropriate to the era/style of car. Both require safety glass windshields. Not sure about side glass. Both require original style tire construction (no radials on pre-radial cars).

 

Plymouth Owners Club gives bonus points for period correct accessories, AACA deducts points for those same accessories unless factory.

 

I've seen beautiful cars that got AACA first place but only got third in POC because of incorrect things that the AACA did not know about (carpet in drivers area, wrong firewall color, etc.). On the other hand, there are a number of cars I've seen that got POC first place which probably would not place at all at a AACA meet. On those cars everything was correct but condition was not quite up to what I consider AACA standards.

 

Disclaimer: I've judged at POC meets. But I've only read about the AACA judging standards.

[Don Coatney]

Judging events all have guidelines but the interpertation is left up to the individual judge and is there for many times misconstrued. Enough said.

[Plymouthy Adams]

and a trailered car with no paint burnt off the manifold and probably not worthy of street operation has even higher priority above the driver car....cannot really own and drive and expect fair judgement

Edited November 23, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams

[Don Coatney]

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder

 

English dramatist John Lyly, in his Euphues and his England, wrote:

"...as neere is Fancie to Beautie, as the pricke to the Rose, as the stalke to the rynde, as the earth to the roote."

[TodFitch]

Judging events all have guidelines but the interpertation is left up to the individual judge and is there for many times misconstrued. Enough said.

You might like the judging guidelines for the Concours d'LeMons. http://www.concoursdlemons.com

 

When they started the rules specifically included and encouraged bribing the judges. They've become more successful and even have official sponsors now so maybe they've gone mainstream though.

[ChrisRice]

So I am getting the feeling that a Car built for POC or AACA judging is not worth having. I want a factory correct (as close to) orginal car as I can build. However, that being said, I bought this car to drive my family in. And they will be driven around in it, if only seldom.

What is the opinions of the people that have involved? Worth doing or not and why?

I have my work cut out for me either way.

I have been to many car shows, but only recently have I really started paying attention to the details of the cars, and how they are placed. Most car shows in my area have the same cars at most of them, and they all look good.... From a distance. They are not original, custom, etc. not that there is anything wrong with his, but I want mine as right as I can. It has all of the orginal mechanicals (which is good and bad). I have seen old coupes that have modern suspension, v-8s, etc. very nice looking, probably drive better, but not what I want for mine. I think it is up for matter or opinion, but I like how they were originaly built and I think that as car enthusiasts it is up to us to preserve them as much as we can.

[Plymouthy Adams]

no one said is not worth building only that you if you drive it around a lot...upkeep and paint freshening in many areas will be required if you should try to get it judged in a "point oriented" event...hard to beat a old man with a go-to-hell hat, baggy paints and shiny trailer and a car that is only ever seen at judging events

[TodFitch]

So I am getting the feeling that a Car built for POC or AACA judging is not worth having. I want a factory correct (as close to) orginal car as I can build. However, that being said, I bought this car to drive my family in. And they will be driven around in it, if only seldom.

What is the opinions of the people that have involved? Worth doing or not and why?

I have my work cut out for me either way.. . .

I consider my car to be a "twenty footer". Drove it to the Portland Plymouth club national meet a few years ago, about 1700 miles round trip. Got it judged there and I think the rain occluded the judges vision as they awarded me a national first prize. So somebody (or actually a group of somebodies) thought my driver was good enough for national recognition. But now that I have that I'm not going to have it judged again. On the following Plymouth club national meets I've driven to I've put "do not judge" on it.

 

You can have a show car that is driven but that is a lot of work to keep things up. A number of people I know restore their cars to show condition and show them. Once they get what ever prizes they were going for the start using it as a tour car and driver. When you think about it, that is not much different than anyone who buys a new car goes through: They take a show room perfect car and start driving it.

[RobertKB]

Chris, I really like your plans for your car. I have three old Mopars and am working on the fourth. My 1953 Plymouth is all original including paint and I intend to keep it as original as possilbe.....no chroming the bumpers, original engine stays, original interior although worn I'll keep. They are only original once. My '38 Chrysler was a tough old girl when I got it and I did everything to it as in body off the frame. The engine is a flathead but from around 1955 although if I didn't tell people hardlly anyone would know. Interior is grey and maroon which I like better with the black paint but not original. My car so my way. My 1948 Dodge also has a different flathead than it came with but the original engine was shot (as in rod out the side) so slightly newer flattie in it too. Upholstery is not original but I like it better. My '51 Dodge business coupe will be similar to the '48 when done although is does have the original engine which will get a rebuild.

 

I personally like the original power trains and have driven my cars tens of thousands of miles with virtually trouble free driving, and I had very young kids when I started. I am never in a hurry when driving and enjoy the sense of history I get when driving an old car with the original technology. I appreciate hotrods but never been a big fan and as for ratrods..................not mentionable.

 

So, to make a long story short, it is your car and you do what you want. I, for one, like your approach and wish you the best in your project!

 

I have included some pictures to give you an idea of where you are going in the future and what a finished project can look like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DutchEdwin]

Chris,

Have fun with getting your's to the road again.

It's fun to drive a 1955 Plaza. If you want to read about the car try this: http://www.allpar.com/model/belvedere.html

Our car is a late 1955 Plaza suburban, often mistaken for a Belvedere because of the sportone trim and the dual exhaust, indicating the power package on the V8.

[ChrisRice]

Chris,

Have fun with getting your's to the road again.

It's fun to drive a 1955 Plaza. If you want to read about the car try this: http://www.allpar.com/model/belvedere.html

Our car is a late 1955 Plaza suburban, often mistaken for a Belvedere because of the sportone trim and the dual exhaust, indicating the power package on the V8.

A wonderful example of what I am trying to restore mine into. How much of your car is restored and how much is orginal? Thank you for the pictures and links. Is your interior orginal, and do you have pictures of it?

Mine does not have the radio, trim, and only has the flathead 6, but it is still nice to see yours. They seem to be a rarity. Any idea how many 4 door Plaza wagons were built? I know that their were only about 10,000 total 4 door wagon Plymouths built, but I don't know how many of those were Plaza.

[DutchEdwin]

A wonderful example of what I am trying to restore mine into. How much of your car is restored and how much is orginal? Thank you for the pictures and links. Is your interior orginal, and do you have pictures of it?

Mine does not have the radio, trim, and only has the flathead 6, but it is still nice to see yours. They seem to be a rarity. Any idea how many 4 door Plaza wagons were built? I know that their were only about 10,000 total 4 door wagon Plymouths built, but I don't know how many of those were Plaza.

Hi Chris,

Mine is very original, except for the tires  . As far as I know it is an original car with original engine. The interior is still the original one but not the carpet. I plan to keep it that way as long as possible.

Engine overhauled, only original moving parts I could save is are the rockershaft and rockers. Rest was very much scrap. Had to change the radiator, but kept is to honeycomb type because of the looks and cooling capacity.

It still has the manual 3 speed gearbox but will change that to an overdrive type. I'm proud to have a very good state PVC headliner. Only missing the dome light cap.

The brakes are  4 drums, changed the wheel cylinders at the front. Could do with only rubber capt at the rear and master cylinder. The paint has been done I think 20 years ago by the previous owner, not a showroom paint job, but for now it will do. I only drive it in good weather. When it is raining, I can keep fish in the doors for the water it would collect there. Window and door rubbers all solid. The car is not perfect when you look closely, but heck, should it be for a 58 year old car?

I hope you own the 1955 1956 plymouth service manual, you need it!

Have fun with your car, it took me 12 year to get in on the road, but you have the advantage of internet that I didn't have when I started, and you live in the US.

 

How many were built? couldn't find that number. I've read somewhere that Plymouth didn't keep the numbers on what type of suburban was built, but I'm not sure about that.

 

I tried to upload some interior pictures but I couldn't find the right button. Tried my media, but it doesn't link to my computer. Sorry for that.

Edited December 11, 2013 by DutchEdwin

[bbbbbb99]

I have a service manual if you need one.

[ChrisRice]

I have a service manual if you need one.

I bought a digital copy that I have on my computer, but I could really use a hard copy.

[bbbbbb99]

PM me. I would need postage plus maybe $15. Not sure if it would fit in a flat rate box. I'll check.

[ChrisRice]

Well it's that time of year again. Birds are chirping and projects are ramping back up. I have been in and out of town for several months and looked longingly at my own project sitting in the driveway. A recent hard rain made my jack stands sink and caused the wagon to fall off of them and onto the ground. I had no problem getting it back up and reset in a better position. Now the work can begin again. I have three weeks until my wedding; I was hoping to have it on the road before then, but the time is creeping up on me too fast.

I was finally able to get two of the brake drums off today after many past failed attempts. Maybe tomorrow or this weekend I can get the other two off as well. The front wheel cylinders look 'ok', but the rear is deteriorated as are the shoes. The front looks as if it had recent work, the shoes are in decent shape, and the bearings had clean good grease. I'll be replacing anyway as well as turning the drums. I feel better after finally having some success to a something I fought and gave up on a while back.

[ChrisRice]

Another update... My wedding was Saturday. I managed to go to a car show that morning. Obsessed? Maybe.

I got the car to move under its own power today for the first time since I bought it, and the first time in 10 years. It's a small step maybe, but a big step for me. I put a temporary 6 gallon marine fuel tank on it (the plastic kind) and ran a rubber fuel hose the fuel pump. After a bit of priming, it cranked and ran long enough for me to drive it across the yard. Then it got stuck in the soft ground. Still a bit of success. I am supposed to be showing it for the first time on the 24th in a show in the 'under construction' field. A lot left to go. Hope she makes it.

I also got front brakes replaced. New rear brakes and brake lines are in hand, but haven't been installed yet. Drums were turned, shoes replaced, brake cylinders replaced. I'm going to be rebuilding the master cylinder. Also have a new generator en route. It should be in early next week.

Edited May 3, 2014 by ChrisRice

[ChrisRice]

Look what came in today!

[Young Ed]

Cool! Does your car still have the overdrive?

[greg g]

Morrisville motors is still in buslness selling dodges chryslers and jeeps. It has changed hands only once since your car was sold. Other tha some outside appearence changes and an addition to the back of the building for an allignment rack it hasnt changed since 1968 when I graduated from the state college in town.

[BigDaddyO]

Looks like a squashed bug! Does nothing for me but, hey, to each his own.

I got yer squashed bug right here;

 

Edited May 14, 2014 by BigDaddyO

[Plymouthy Adams]

each there own for sure...but I love it when the local drag strip is set aside on one weekend just for the VW crowd to host their event....them little cars will surprise you at what they can do on the strip...the swap meet is fun..lots of things of generic application that one can use...and they always have a field of display cars..better than looking at a Twang or Whoraro....the Mopar folks used to host at this track but there was a falling out with them and management that could not be rectified I guess...that also was a great event with swap meet, well worth the trip over..do miss that..

[ChrisRice]

Ed, yes it still has the overdrive. It is completely original minus the front seat, drivers door panel( missing) and most of the paint.