Welders

[pflaming]

Harbor Freight has a mig welder for $119 which includes a roll of wire, shield, etc. It's capacity 18 gaute up to 3/16". There would  not be much  thicker than 3/16" except for some serious frame work on a vehicle. I'm considering this. 

 

Responses welcomed. 

[Don Coatney]

Paul, What is a MIG welder? What is a TIG welder? What inert gas is used on each one and how do the welders differ?

[Scruffy49]

I wore out the Campbell Hausfeld version Lisa bought me in 1998. It gave up the ghost in 2011. Have a Tractor Supply Company sourced Hobart as its replacement. Both were/are good units, flux core only. They've worked perfectly for motorcycle frames, repairing cracked/rotten truck panels, fixing heavy duty farm implements, etc.

 

Just expect a lot, and I mean a LOT, of spatter and resulting clean up. 110v buzz boxes work fine, but are extremely messy.

[sig]

thats incredibly cheap!, does it use that weird wire with the inert material inside or does it need a bottle of argon /co2?. the bottles I use are expensive and you need to have a contract for them, but they give a cleaner weld.

mig is easy as squeezing silicone around the sink in your bathroom. tig is a tricky 2 handed job much cleaner but much more expert. mig is the coolest of the welding systems that I know of, which is obviously very important for thin steel sheet

one possible advantage of a small cheap mig is it could be much more useable for the small power ranges than my big stuff.

get an automatic helmet also obviously

[pflaming]

They use different gases and different wire. Mig usually for black iron and TIG for stainless and aluminum. That is my recollection on the difference. This little welder does NOT require gas and it's a 110 unit. Should be more than adequate for what  would require.

 

I stand corrected: See note below. 

Edited October 27, 2013 by pflaming

[sig]

you can ( and I do ) weld stainless and aluminium with mig also, stainless needs a different mix of gas (more argon I think) and alumnium is pretty much solid argon. welding the alu is definitely cleaner with tig though

[Plymouthy Adams]

thats incredibly cheap!, does it use that weird wire with the inert material inside or does it need a bottle of argon /co2?. the bottles I use are expensive and you need to have a contract for them, but they give a cleaner weld.

mig is easy as squeezing silicone around the sink in your bathroom. tig is a tricky 2 handed job much cleaner but much more expert. mig is the coolest of the welding systems that I know of, which is obviously very important for thin steel sheet

one possible advantage of a small cheap mig is it could be much more useable for the small power ranges than my big stuff.

get an automatic helmet also obviously

 

While MIG is a very popular media for welding..the very weld itself suffers oxygen brittle in the process making hammer dolly work of the joint later very susceptible to cracking on the thinner materials...gas is cleaner and albeit a bit more expensive as the gas is often in smaller bottles for the home unit unless you got a rental agreement..owning you own bottles are usually limited to about 80 cu ft. with no contract and exchangeable at any industrial gas supply house...running back and forth for refill adds up...

 

Tig is hard to beat hands down...

Edited October 27, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams

[pflaming]

Do you have a service manual? The king pin/steering knuckle is illustrated there.  To others, this is in response to a chat discussion early this morning. Sig I hope this helps. 

 

Edited October 27, 2013 by pflaming

[Plymouthy Adams]

This steering knuckle in the welding thread..is this somehow connected as in maybe a way to weld a straight bead....? 

 

PS the Harbor Freight is not a good investment for welders...look at the duty cycle will tell you this...the Home Depot Hobart or even Lowes may have a better welder choice of brand name unit with a longer duty cycle..I would be quite upset that after welding some 10 minutes I have to sit on my butt for 50 waiting for the transformer to cool..

Edited October 27, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams

[wayfarer]

I'll join on this one as I have several varieties of welding machines, including a little 110v wire feed. The flux core wire is indeed 'dirty' and if clean welds are needed this is not a good choice, in any voltage. Also, the 90 amp machine of mine requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit. It simply overloads a 15a breaker. You will quickly find out if your selected machine likes/dislikes 15a service.

I made some repairs to the locking system on one of my storage containers and part of the material is 3/16", maybe a little more. The little machine did 'ok', but...nothing to sing praises about.

I would never attempt to use this machine for any frame work. If I did not have my MillerMatic 250 then I would get real good (again) at running stick and practice in both AC and DC. In fact, if you have to work outside with anything resembling wind, then a stick machine (or flux core wire) is good to have around. No, stick is not generally suitable for sheet metal work; it is best suited for 0.125" and thicker even at low amp settings and small rod. And, yes, stick is about as dirty as flux core wire. Buy plenty of splatter shield.

[Don Coatney]

Paul, What does MIG stand for? What does TIG stand for? Also explain duty cycle and how and why it changes with the amp setting?

[Plymouthy Adams]

I find that only time there is splatter and such with my stick arc welder is if I use a deep penetrating rod..these are only needed if you surface is pitted and cleaning is hard to accomplish prior to welding...good clean metal and the rod will flow nicely without splatter ..my welded frame joint have so little  splatter about them anywhere..keep it clean...right rod/heat for the metal you welding.....you will have little trouble..also arc is great for stainless..310-16 rods will flow with as little as 20 amps... I have done stainless exhast systems with this rod no problem..

[Plymouthy Adams]

Paul, What does MIG stand for? What does TIG stand for?

 

 

pick me pick me...I know I know....

[Don Coatney]

pick me pick me...I know I know....

Sorry, the questions are for the student Paul.

[Plymouthy Adams]

^{sorry...thought you were looking for right answers....lol...(yeah Paul...we still picking on you..)}

[wayfarer]

I find that only time there is splatter and such with my stick arc welder is if I use a deep penetrating rod..these are only needed if you surface is pitted and cleaning is hard to accomplish prior to welding...good clean metal and the rod will flow nicely without splatter ..my welded frame joint have so little  splatter about them anywhere..keep it clean...right rod/heat for the metal you welding.....you will have little trouble..also arc is great for stainless..310-16 rods will flow with as little as 20 amps... I have done stainless exhast systems with this rod no problem..

 Very true, the various 'easy-arc' rods are reasonably clean; 7013, 7024 and such. My mind went to the more common 6011 as point of reference. My bad.

And yes, SS rod is a completely different operation and it flows very well at low amp, but these days it is bloody expensive!

For the uninitiated, the variety/selection of stick material can be overwhelming and it may be best left to the prospective (no prior training) welder to attend a Community College class to get some solid basics under his belt if pursuing a stick machine.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Yeah, I use 6011 farm rod DC straight on 22 Ga. sheet metal.

[mrwrstory]

I quickly scanned his whole thread and if there was a succinct reply to Paul's query I missed it and I apologize.

Yes, re sig, "$110.00 is incredibly cheap."  Don't think you would be happy with it within one week.  That price implies flux core wire (more expensive), a handheld "shield" (requires a "hand" to hold it instead of holding your work), and extremely light duty (think of stereo amplifiers, more amps = better range and sound).  A side note, welding 1/8 or 3/16 is much easier than welding 18-20 ga.  Per Wayfarer, if you're working outside, flux core has it's merits but is messy with splatter.

     Up grading a standard Metal Inert Gas machine costs for regulator, bottle and gas but if you do much welding the cost is amortized over many months, even years, and the wire is less expensive.  You'd want a decent helmet too and self darkening ones are a God sent.

      I'd suggest going to a real welding supply house and getting their input for what you want to do.  Often times they have good used units and are a great source for help if you get in a pickle.  A good shop should also know about the Harbor Freight stuff and speak to the idiosyncrasies of that product.  Ask/understand about "duty cycle".  I'd suggest too (as in realestate) that you spend as much as you can possibly afford.  A good tool, whether a hammer, a drill press or a welder, will last a lifetime,....and in the case of a complex tool, be repairable.

      Also, be aware that it is easy to put down a pretty bead with a MIG, that ain't worth a ****!  If you intend to do anything heavier that .060 that implies some kinda structural intent.  Get some help, maybe from that local welding supply, in understanding about penetration and its' importance.  You don't want stuff like brackets, mufflers, shocks or wheels falling off because of poor welds.

      Finally, my Miller MIG is about my most favorite tool.  I've owned it for something like 12-13 years.  I use it all the time.  It's especially handy for prototyping or visualizing an idea.  You just bend up a coupla pieces, quickly tack 'em together and hold to the application you envision.  If it needs tuning, (usually the case for me) break it apart and reassemble.  I probably do as much tacking and visualizing as I do welding.

     Good luck.  I hope this helps and I have not stepped on any toes!!!!!  

[52b3b]

Do you have a service manual? The king pin/steering knuckle is illustrated there.  To others, this is in response to a chat discussion early this morning. Sig I hope this helps. 

 

Thanks Mister pflaming. The world is a village

[52b3b]

Thanks Mister pflaming. The world is a village

Passengerside is good and driverside little play, very little.

[52b3b]

Now to the topic, i agree with nrwrstory. I have a MIG since 25 years. 160 amps/220V it works for 2 mm very well. By welding it must sound like a steak in the pan. At work we have WIG and MIG machines for  stainless and iron. The gas is the difference. My private bottle is 20 years old and i get in trouble when i need a new filling.

[martybose]

You can use a TIG welder to weld pretty much anything, not just aluminum and SS.  When the shop I hung out at was making roll cages or tubular frames we always TIG welded everything, since it generally puts less heat in the metal than MIG welding (which we would use for building engine stands and the like).

 

Marty

[Dave72dt]

I don't want to spend your money needlessly but that particular welder is a flux only and has only 2 heat settings. At the bare minimum, purchase a welder with gas capability. Flux core is best used in a continuous bead. Sheet metal welding is a series of tacks and every tack will need to be cleaned of the flux residue after each tack before the next is applied. There are 110 mig available that are gas capable, have more than 2 heat settings and would be a much better investment than the bottom end Harbor Freight unit. JMO

[greg g]

I have one of the harbor freight boxes.  I have used it for patching hole and floors in my Studebaker, doing some repairs on my garden tractor, some light fabrication, some lawn furniture repairs, and welding on tail light brackets to a couple of trailers. Used it on exhaust tubing, to patch up some small holes or ruptured seams. I have it wired into my breaker box using one leg of the 220 V circuit that goes to our clothes dryer.  I also made a 15 foot extension cord from some of the heaviest cable and heavy duty plugs you can get at the hardware store.  I do need to assure the dryer will not be in use when I am using the welder.  1st thing I did was trash the flux core wire that came with it, and replace it with good wire sourced from a local commercial welding shop.  I would not use it to weld anything my safety or life depended upon.  I have used it to fabricate some things, where I tacked pieces in place and then took them to a welding shop to finish up the real welding.  

 

It does have a short duty cycle, and it doesn't do a very good job of penetration.  But for sheet metal plug welds, light duty repair ad fabrication, they do OK for those jobs.  I would in hind sight have spent a little more, and gotten a 220 volt one.  Step up to the kind from Tractor Supply or their like.  And take a course at your local tech school or commercial welding shop.  A couple of the ones here will throw in a couple classes when you purchase a machine and accessories.  Cuz even if its a pretty weld don't not mean it is a good one.  most of mine when I started looked like random piles of bid poop.  A lot of that was down to the crap wire from HF, but a lot of it was poor technique, and poor prep.

Edited October 27, 2013 by greg g

[deathbound]

Personally, I wouldn't give a penny to Harbor Freight for anything they sell....but that's a discussion for another forum. I understand most people are on a budget, but a welder will come in handy & once you have a good one, you will use it more than you think. Check craigslist for a name brand (Lincoln, Miller, etc) welder, 220v, flux core/mig capable, a proper hood w/auto-darkening lens, (hand held shields are a joke). I don't weld much light gauge.....I'm a structural welder by trade, so I mainly use .072 flux core wire on a daily basis.

Oh yeah, when everything is dialed in, it DOES sound like bacon frying. I'm going to get something to eat.