Diagnose This

[B1B Keven]

Hank,

I have an extra DTE-2 if it will help ya.

 

http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Carter-BB-BBR1-Carburetor-Rebuild-Kit_p_56.html

[Don Coatney]

magnetic drain plugs would be easy to make, take the drain plug, bore a hole in it and epoxy in a magnet.

Why not just magnatize the plug?

 

http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/practical-physics/making-permanent-magnet

[HanksB3B]

Hank,

I have an extra DTE-2 if it will help ya.

 

http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Carter-BB-BBR1-Carburetor-Rebuild-Kit_p_56.html

 

 

Why not just magnatize the plug?

 

http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/practical-physics/making-permanent-magnet

 

^^Both good ideas^^

 

hanks 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Some carb info on two of the carbs mentioned.....

Edited October 20, 2013 by Dodgeb4ya

[HanksB3B]

Dodgeb4ya,

 

Thanks. Would like more info on these Carters (but there was no attachment or link).  Could use some numbers stamped on the three Jets.

 

 

Meanwhile....

 

 

The E7T1 (rebuilt Fri nite) with a throttle bore of 1-9/6" (thank you) will be replacing the E9G1 with a 1-11/16 throttle bore.

 

Judging by the black soot on all 6 spark plugs (#3 wet) ​Indications are that the engine was running too rich (throttle bore=too much gas ?) 

 

Building a new set of wires today

 

hank   

Edited October 22, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Jeff Balazs]

Hank;

Did your #3 sparkplug wire actually test out bad?

You know you talked me into those real copper core wires for my truck......they better last.

 

Jeff

[HanksB3B]

Jeff, (please re-read post #80 added a couple of things)

 

I should live so long and be so lucky, Yes and No.  It seemed I could wiggle the #3 wire and loose continuity.  When I spoke to Jens at VPW the other day, told him I was running "Cloth covered, Lacqured Wire", and simultaneously asked if they go bad, I think I had no sooner gotten the word "bad" out of my mouth before he answered yes. So as you can see I 'm busy building a new set of non-suppression ignition wires and placing them into a new distributor cap as I go. Very Relaxing.

 

More to follow,

 

Hank 

 

Once I check the valve tolerance cold, get my oil pan squared away, equip the truck with a new sock oil filter, fill her with oil, check the points and put a new set of plugs in (or re-condition the old ones just for the test)  

Edited October 22, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Don Coatney]

What I have learned about plug wires and spark plugs. On the recent road trip in Billy Austin's D-24 the plug wires (expensive original looking cloth jobs with expensive plastic caps) failed as the caps would not stay on the plugs and fell off. Replaced the wires with the farm store wires pictured below. After about a thousand miles I observed these wires arching to ground past the porcelain insulator on the spark plug. My initial thought was these wires were junk. Billy used pliers to re-crimp the plug boots and it seemed to help for a while. Then when climbing a 14,000ft mountail the car started to miss fire and the engine temperature was climbing. Pulled to the side of the road, popped the hood, and observed the plug wires arching again. Elected to replace the Champion spark plugs that were in the engine with NGK's. The arching quit and the car ran great the rest of the trip. Just of the story is bad plugs can and will gibe a false indication of bad plug wires. Electricity always takes the path of least resistance and the bad plugs created too much resistance.

 

[Jeff Balazs]

Don;

I have run into stuff like this for years. So many times with Champion plugs that I absolutely refuse to even consider running them.

As a sidenote I would be interested to know which NGK's you were running.

 

Another area I have found that can cause a lot of grief is gap settings.....points and plugs. Some older ignition systems can be very sensitive to the gap settings and will only work well when the gaps are set and maintained very carefully. A few thousands out and some just don't run right. I have come across more than one situation where closing the gap down a little below the recommended distance has yielded an improvement but I believe this was due to age related deterioration of one or more components.

 

Jeff

[Plymouthy Adams]

plug gap is based on available voltage from the secondary side of the coil...higher the voltage the wider the recommended gap..

Edited October 22, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams

[Don Coatney]

I should have mentioned that the Champion plugs were gapped at the recommended .025".

[greg g]

While you have the carb off, assure that the small hole in the bottom of the carb base that is the vacuum path to the step up valve is clear and open, and that it aligns with the slot in the carb to manifold gasket.  If the step up valve does not get the vacuum signal from the intake manifold, it will be open at all times.  This will cause an over rich mixture at all times when the engine is running, causing fouled plugs, gas smell from the exhaust, poor fuel milage, and other driveability problems.   As a side note I have been running the same set of tractor supply solid core plug wires and the same set of AC 45 or 46 plugs since July of 2005.  So 8 years and 25000 + miles.  

 

I have replaced distributor parts once, and checked the point gap once since the new stuff was installed.

Edited October 22, 2013 by greg g

[Jeff Balazs]

I should have mentioned that the Champion plugs were gapped at the recommended .025".

Don;

I have no doubt that they were gapped correctly. In my experience with them they just seem to have a high failure rate. I believe this can be attributed to failure of the insulator in most cases. I have always suspected that they don't do a good job when it comes to maintaining a specific heat range. It has been my observation that NGK plugs just seem to always work better than their Champion counterparts. Of course this is just my two cents worth. But I sure have had good luck correcting balky engines when using the NGK's. Especially in situations where fouling was ocurring.

 

Jeff

[Don Coatney]

I am with you on the failure rate of Champion plugs. I will not use them in my car but I have had the same Champion plug in my Briggs powered mower for over 10 years.

[greg g]

While you have the carb off assure the passage (small hole inthe carb base that faces the intake manifold) that feeds vacuum to the step up valve is clear and aligned with the slot in the carb to manifold gasket.  Without that signal the step up valve is always opened.  This will lead to an over rich mixture which will foul the plugs, cause driveability issues and kill gas mileage. 

 

I have had the TSC solid core plug wire and AC 45's in my engine for 8 years and nearly 30K miles.  I have changed the tune up parts in the dist once and checked the point gap once in those 8 years.   

[HanksB3B]

Although I run NGK plugs in my other vehicles, I've never had a problem (that I know of) with AutoLite 306 Plugs that I've always used in the truck.  The new wires are 7mm Copper Conductor 13. I use rubber boots on the distributor but do not use boots on the plugs just like  they rolled off the assembly line.

 

 

I could add boots on the plug side but have never observed any arching or grounding out.  I used to use Packard 440 wire but am told that  Packard 440 wire is now only manufactured as a suppression wire.  After I finished my truck I brought it to Dick Waggoner a shop that specializes in 50's vehicles.  Reed and his son Jeff both told me that my truck would run better with non-suppression wires. I took their advice and it did make a noticeable difference in the power curve.

 

Photo of new wires to follow:

 

Thanks for the help/advice (I appreciate it)

 

Hank  

 

P.S. Oh before I forget:  I used contact cement on the pan side only of my oil pan.  It was very tough to remove and took a razor knife, then  a coarse abrasive pad and a lot of elbow grease.  My question is I what would you use.

[Merle Coggins]

Assuming it's a cork gasket, I like Permetex  #9 Tack & Seal Gasket Sealant for that application. A thin film on the pan lip will be tacky enough to hold the gasket in place until the pan is in place. Leave the block side clean and dry. Hopefully there won't be a "next time", but if there is it won't bond the gasket to the pan and it will clean up easy as it never fully hardens.

 

Sometimes I'll even just use a thin layer of grease to help hold a cork gasket in place until it's assembled. The cork gasket shouldn't need any additional sealants. The grease will help hold it in place during assembly and will allow it to come apart easy too.

 

Please don't use RTV silicone.

 

Merle

Edited October 22, 2013 by Merle Coggins

[HanksB3B]

News Flash....Unbelievable...How did I miss THAT !

 

 

I'm in disbelief, just skip over the heart and go for the head.  Diagnostics 101 FAIL ! (hahaha) but I'm extactic it's nothing serious and Tim, (forgive me if I misquote you) you were right on two counts.  One;  "This thread is textbook" (boy is it ever) and two; "Get back to Square one" (a valuable lesson learned by me).

 

Good news:  I didn't go too far and I'm attending to things I wanted to get done.

 

Priceless: I got like 90 responses from guys just like you just trying to help a fella or "mate" out.

 

Thanks,

 

hank   (I'm feeling the wub) 

 

To be continued on a more "Textbook" manner....

Edited October 23, 2013 by HanksB3B

[Dave72dt]

Put the condenser into the holder the other way and you won't have the wire going over the moving parts of the points.

[41/53dodges]

Now that is lucky! see what ignition can do to you? So when the rotor came around did it contact the wire? That would explain it acting just like my truck! Now did this have any long-term effects on the motor or is it back to running like an old flathead again?

[rkldesign]

It always comes down to a simple, cheap solution that costs about 5 bucks to fix.  This has happened to me in the past as well and I keep reminding myself to trust my intuition from the get go.

 

Glad to hear you found the problem AND fixed your oil leak too.  

 

Richard

[Dodgeb4ya]

You should also replace that green wire. It's not flexible enough.  Try to find the original very fine strand distributor lead wire. It will withstand the constant flexing and movement of the breaker plate. JMO!

[greg g]

I doubt his breaker plate is moving much with that torsion bar of a wire in there.  That wire needs to be very flexible and just long enough to to reach between the coil terminal and the points and then allow the breaker plate to travel through its full arc.  Glad you found your problem.  Guess this will be a good reference thread as just about everything but catastrophic major parts failure was covered.

 

 And it proves conclusively that 90% of all carburetor problems are related to the ignition, and that 90% of all ignition problems are fixed at the carburetor..............

[HanksB3B]

 And it proves conclusively that 90% of all carburetor problems are related to the ignition, and that 90% of all ignition problems are fixed at the carburetor..............

 

Now that's funny.  

 

Still left do to:

 

1. Fix Distributor wires,

2. Install new Ignition Wires and cap (didn't need them but the new ones are looking nice and flexible with better boots compared to the old)

3. Fix Oil Pan (get it right this time)  

4. Check tappets cold to make sure things are within tolerance (never done this before so I'll have to read up a bit)

5. New Oil Filter and oil (Planning to use 10w 40 Kragen Orielly ($13) until I determine the engine is tight then change to Synthetic

 

I think I moved too fast and missed the very obvious.  Basically I skipped the distributor, moved to the plugs and when I saw that #3 was wet determined that it was spark (which it turned out to be) and when I went to install the new wires and cap saw the bare wire realized that is enough of a problem to make the truck run so poorly.  I won't change the carb just yet but will once things are running good.  

 

I can't you guys enough and the advice regarding the routing and guage and length of the distributor wires are a lesson.  The carb was swtched at the same time as the new points and condenser were installed.

 

Hank 

[ggdad1951]

K.I.S.S.  that is all...

 

glad you ot it fixed Hank!