1954 Plymouth Suburban Project

[Plymouthy Adams]

pin holes are very small holes the size of a pin head..what you show are pen holes..these hole are large enough for the small animals that escape their cages to run through..

[Old Ray]

What a great thread, thank you to everyone that is posting, a wealth of information and knowledge, it is greatly appreciated.

………um, just a courteous and polite suggestion for you to think about?

I have high speed net at work, but as I chose to live in the bush, only dial up at home. When relying to a post with a quote, maybe delete the images out of the quote, so that the pictures don’t post a seconded time? Kind of unnecessary, maybe?

……… or just tell me to go to hell, (again!) Thanks.

[Plymouthy Adams]

If I do a quote from a large file/thread..I try to cut what I am replying to and state IN-PART   it is a great help and also lets the raders know the exact piece of thread being addressed...

 

I chose to live in the country also..but do have DSL...while not lightening..its does well.   IF when loading a thread with lots of picutres...and it get refreshing tot he top....just hit stop..this often works to elimintate the further download of pictures..

[murfman1967]

You may be interested in these:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plymouth-Savoy-Cambridge-Door-Skin-Left-53-54-1953-1954-/290384833074?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item439c48ea32&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plymouth-Savoy-Cambridge-Door-Skin-Rt-53-54-1953-1954-/290384832322?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item439c48e742&vxp=mtr

 

They may be worth it in the long run

[pflaming]

Sometimes it's nice to see what's inside, so the first two pics below show that. The third pic is the beginning of the new floors.

 

 

 

[pflaming]

Below those cardboard patterns is this. Same on both sides. Tonight on chat, i learned how to fix this body mount area.

 

 

Just now I'm multitasking. When I get stumped I can then keep the project going on something else while I seek out the answer. To repair the cracks in a steering wheel, the filler must dry and shrink, takes several dry/shrink cycles so I got the steering wheel out today.

 

 

To eat an elephant you got to keep taking bites!

Edited September 15, 2013 by pflaming

[Desotodav]

Good job on the photos PP - should make putting it all back together easier.

Did you try pulling the wiper motor apart and cleaning out the old grease? That has worked for others here who have had seized up motors/mechanisms. It sounds like (from your comment) you had pulled it apart. There's not much to them.

[pflaming]

Dave, I did and the grease was not solid, so I need to work a bit more on the motor. 

 

Cleaning out the old rusty floor board is revealing. It appears that the body channel is formed around several internal posts so that when the body is tightened down the post provides the resistance and thus the bolt can be torqued. So the in descending order the is the (a) bolt head, ( a thick washer, © the floor pan, (d) the internal pressure post. It may also be called something like an squeeze tube/pipe etc. 

 

Wow, what have I got myself into???? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

( tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow beats on the pace of time, Shakespeare) 

[pflaming]

A part of this challenge are the rocker Channels. I think one can buy a rocker panel, cut out the old one and replace it. Any tips on where?

 

 

[knuckleharley]

" . . . those black spots on the bottom of the door are the "pinhole", you've got some serious work ahead of you. from the amount of rust I see on the inner door panel bottom lip, I'm guessing the entire bottom is soft and will need replacing"

 

Dave, I will remove all the existing bondo and find the truth. I may have to put a new piece all across the bottom of that door. I wonder how accessible that will be from the inside. I will post a picture this evening.  This forum is to be a place to learn so maybe this will contribute to that.

 

VERY easy access once you use a fine cutoff wheel  or scroll saw to cut away the inner panel. Once you remove that panel you can really get at the old rust in there to clean it and paint it before welding the inner panel back in.

 

IMHO,if the bottom panel is soft and the bottoms of the doors have rust popping through,you really need to do this so you can eliminate all the rust in there before you try to make any repairs.

[knuckleharley]

"Tonight on chat, i learned how to fix this body mount area."

 

OK,how about sharing?

 

 "To repair the cracks in a steering wheel, the filler must dry and shrink, takes several dry/shrink cycles so I got the steering wheel out today."

 

I have never done this myself,but I am thinking that putting the steering wheel into a oven set on low heat would probably be a big help in getting the filler to take a set.

[pflaming]

"Tonight on chat, i learned how to fix this body mount area."  OK,how about sharing?

 

Post 258 was/is my way of sharing. I did not understand how the two inner mounts were constructed. The pictures show that, I hope. In short, inside the rocker panels for these two mounts is a hidden ' tube '. That allows the body to rest on that 'tube' which is a 'spacer' between the  floor and the frame gusset.  

 

Additionally, mount bolts 2 & 3 of 4 are located just behind the door jams or A and B pillars. That means the structural force goes from the frame gusset up through the pillars to the roof.

 

Once I understood that, then I could figure out how to replace that area. There are several ways, after all it is STRUCTURE, so strength get priority over cosmetics. 

Edited September 16, 2013 by pflaming

[pflaming]

Pattern day today. To restore the floor I need patterns and while I was in the pattern mood, I did wall patterns for the back of the wagon. Two door patterns, two kick boards and a headliner and the patterns will be ready for whenever. The seat is temporary, I just needed to see how it is all going to fit together. 

 

I'm not certain what kind of material I will use for those side panels. Since it will be a surf wagon, it will not have the same style interior as if it would be 'restored' back to a full suburban for some soccer mom. Bucket seats will replace that bench seat. I'm thinking a tan interior thus the cardboard helps me envision that.

 

I have all the interior window frames. They will be bead blasted and painted to match. What concerns me is the exterior SS trim. This is a Belvedere wagon and it had a lot more trim than the other(s). I do not like the idea of filling some 70+ trim holes.  

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2013 by pflaming

[Plymouthy Adams]

PP..is this the back seat you thinking of installing....the back of the seat is a metal panel

 

back of the seat is the continuation of the storage floor and the bottom of the seat when hinged upward make a metal stop for cargo that also has provisions for the seat back to latch into place thus ensuring the cargo area is fixed in place...

Edited September 16, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams

[pflaming]

I have that panel that raises to hold the back of the seat. But I'm not going to put a back seat in the car. It's going to be set up as a two seater and the rear area set up for a surfer's gear and possibly a bed on the passenger side, so he can go the night before, sleep over and be ready to surf at day break.

 

JFYI, It might be a great dilla hunter's car, just open that top window and blast away. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

if you not using it as a seat at least use the metal panels to finished p out the cargo area...it provides a very finished look when folded down...

[pflaming]

Tim, I agree and it provides proof that the car has not been modified. So then the next owner has NOT be shut out of returning the car to its originality. 

 

I was going to cover the floor with a good sound deaden-er but I like what Tim has pointed out. So now to reduce the street and rear axle/tires noise, I will have to do it from  below. So now when the body is off the frame, I'll turn it upside down and find a suitable material. Suggestions are always encouraged.

Edited September 16, 2013 by pflaming

[Plymouthy Adams]

If you do not have the seat cushions..I would seriously start my look to find some...if missing any of the seat backs..it is dang near a necessity...the panels are both hinged to the body...

[pflaming]

Based upon some comments I'm not sure too many know how much trim was on the Bellvedere Suburban. Note the trim just below the window line, the across the belt line, and then on the rocker panels.  Now if I cannot find those trim pieces, then I have over 80 holes to fill. That one challenge is almost enough to crush this vehicle.  

 

It seems there are at least four choices: (1) weld them shut, which distorts the metal and . . .  (2) fill the holes with fibre bondo, (3) close them with fibre glass. or (4) close them with non-nickle machine bolts, put a good seaing washer in, and pull the nut tight with a fibre nut. Then have the lines where the trim should go pin striped in such a manner as to 'hide' the bolt heads. Then if/when all those pieces are found, remove the bolts and ergo, all is stock.

 

I have the rock guard fins so then I will just add the trailing trim and call it "good".

 

Lots of things to think about.  

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

PP....sounds like you admitting defeat already..you have not been working on this car long enough to give locating the missing pieces a fair shake.   You can weld them up and or cover the holes in any manner you wish...after all, you just fixing this up to sell as a surf wagon, a plain jane wrapper Plaza instead of a high line 'dere.  It is one thing to put a car together, it is quite the task to locate and put it together with all the right stuff..I admit I did not have lots of missing trim on my car but I did have some damaged trim.  It took a bit of time to find these and I found them local and at swap meets, not online.  If you think this wagon is a challenge..wait till you start on the vert..what corners will be cut there?  I guess it is often too easy just to call it a rat rod or leave find a instant love for patina..

 

snap out of it man...give yourself and the car a fair shake...!

 

 

And the rose colored wagon you picture...have ridden in that car to a cruise in before...

Edited September 17, 2013 by Plymouthy Adams

[Young Ed]

Paul you need to get ahold of either someone with a parts book or get a copy for yourself. Lock down specifically what is unique to your wagon and what isn't. Also you've got quite a bit of stuff to conquer before you need that trim. So keep working and keep looking.

[pflaming]

Response to Tim and Ed's comments to close this. I bought this suburban including the engine and tranny for the bumpers. I paid $350. The bumpers are worth more than that. To date the only additional expenses on this build  are for sanding discs.

 

When I built my truck it was missing the elusive and expensive 52 grille, I kept my eyes open and found a truck that was going to be scrapped. I paid him $200 to pick the body and I got my grille and other parts. I will do the same here, I'll look as I work. I decided to built this as a learning experience for building the convertible, especially body work and painting. 

 

Donald Trump says to always have a plan B. So seeking plan B's on the trim while I look for it, is what I was doing regarding the holes and I have four options, yet the trim pieces remain the goal.

 

I like this model, my wife calls it a contraption, well what ever. Back to the shop, will finish the patterns first, then make a pattern of the door window. I picked a windshield glass from that truck and the local glass shop will trim it to fit the missing door glass, cost $15. 

 

No my friend Tim, I'm not throwing in the towel and I'm not looking for short cuts. Required parts to fix the engine will cost me around $1,000 according to Bierman parts. A rustoleum paint job around $250, according to Grey Beard. Electrical from EZ $180.  Discs from Rusty Hope $300. Lower rear axle ration, $150.  Tires, $400..  I'll clean all chrome parts using Plymouthy's chloric acid methiod cost of the acid. I've got a modern radio and six speakers, so $0 money there. Those items and the $350 purchase price total $2, 430.  I may not get my time out of it but I will get my money and more back.

 

Golfing, fishing, hunting, skiing combined, will not do the same. 

 

So follow along or not, I will rebuild this suburban and most will then say, "Well done".  I look forward to each new day in my shop, not too bad for someone who turned 75 on  9/15. 

Edited September 17, 2013 by pflaming

[falconvan]

Paul, I've had a lot of luck filling small holes by setting my MIG on its lowest setting, start at one edge of the hole and work my way across until the hole is filled, and immediately cooling it with an air hose. Then I'll grind it flat, cool again, clean it up with a 50 grit 2" disc, and then a skim coat of filler to smooth it over. Once you get the technique down you can knock them out pretty quick. Drill some 1/4" holes in a piece of 18ga sheetmetal scrap and try it.

[TodFitch]

Way back when I took some auto body classes in the 1970s one of the cars in the classroom shop had about a dozen extra holes where different rear view mirrors had been added and removed over the years. Instructor showed an easy way to fix it.

1. Make sure the holes are level or below the surface (put punch on hole and tap with hammer to depress area if needed).

2. Low temperature torch and solder to fill. He used the same lead material that was used prior to Bondo being introduced but I bet solder from your local plumbing supply with appropriate flux would work just fine.

 

Done. Low temperatures so warpage was not as much an issue. I think it took only a few seconds per hole for the soldering. A bit longer to make sure all the holes were flush or low and to clean up the metal so the flux and solder could do their magic.

[Plymouthy Adams]

PP, this is not the first time you have quoted me out of context. Your comment to the use of the phosphoric acid is not what I actually talked with you about on your many calls here or the PM's sent back and forth in my trying to help you with your project....use of the phosphoric requires some common sense and knowledge of the chemical involved or at least take note when explained to you...and for those who read his word please note......the use of phosphoric on non ferrous metal is strictly at your own risk..zinc and aluminum, pot metal etc...is a no-no.   Please read all instructions associated with a product that may or may not be recommend by to be used on the car/parts by yourself.  This goes right to the very end products like final coating/paints etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do not mind helping where I can but I must insist that if you quote me on this forum please do it correctly...we have folks that follow a thread and will assume incorrectly that they can do X things without consequences.