1953 Plymouth Convertible Rebuild Part 2

[pflaming]

Part 2, Chassis: Part 1, Electrical / Harness; Part 3, Body; Part 4: Interior and top.

(To be continued)

 

A very soon 'next step' is to find a rear axle for my 53 Cranbrook Convertible. I am going to use the hy-drive three speed transmission and replace the converter with an over-drive. The hy-drive 3sp has better gear ratios than the std three speed so that with an overdrive should give me a very nice road car.

 

Question: What rear axle have you used in similar cars? I will replace the axle and the springs. 

 

Most have seen my project car, for those new; my car and my goal. Step 1 build a new harness is completed. 

 

Thank you. 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2013 by pflaming

[Young Ed]

Paul why did you divert this from your build thread? Anyway with an OD why do you want a modern rear end? You really shouldnt need it unless you want modern brakes.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Ed..the car did not come with a rear gear in it but with a rear gear of his choice from the yard I think is how the deal went..

[pflaming]

I diverted so that the thread would be in "chapters" rather then XXXX posts. This way the reader can look at the section on the harness, then the _______, etc. I can change back tonight if that route is better.

 

Tim is correct, the vert has no rear axle so I have choices. May as well see what they are.

 

edit: I'm thinking part one electrical; part two drive train; part three body; part four brakes, etc.

Edited May 29, 2013 by pflaming

[Dave72dt]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the converter in front of the transmision and the OD behind it?

 

I'd think something in the 3.70's would work well with the heavy car.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Dave72dt

[Don Coatney]

You could have a moderator move this thread to the one already started.

[pflaming]

Dave, yes; the converter is between the clutch and the engine. The issue, without research, would be if the clutch would mate up with the engine housing?

[JerseyHarold]

The Hy-drive cars got a different transmission support crossmember than the manual transmission cars.  You would need to add that to your shopping list if you make changes.

[pflaming]

The sequence of parts is: Engine - converter-clutch-tranny-over drive. I have since learned that I should ADD the over drive to the existing setup so that I have a Hy-drive with Overdrive. That is what I am going to do. Thanks to Plymouthy.  JH: and that means no cross member changes but probably will have to cut my drive shaft with my Max-saw, take out a section, and weld it back together. 

[CaptainGTX]

My 53 Coronet convertible still has its stock 3.54 rear end with the Gyro-Torque 4 speed (comparable to Hy-Drive but with one extra gear) and, of course, Red Ram engine.  Most starts are done in third gear, unless uphill, as the factory suggested.  Same 3.54 gearing as on my 69 GTX, but the results seem to be a little different.  Still, I think that ratio works well with both cars.

[Plymouthy Adams]

you do not have an extra gear actually...what you have is high range low range two speed...

 

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/m6.html

[DJ194950]

Paul,

Are you thinking on the OD trans to be a original 3sp. OD R-10??

Leave the fluid drive and clutch, bellhousing?

My limited experiece with the R-10 OD was two of them both with the tailshaft that made the overall lenght of the trans. the overall same lenght as the std. 3 sp. No change to the driveshaft required.

I believe that they made an OD trans with a short tailshaft to fit stock dimension of the fluid drive trarsmission which has a shorter tailshaft because of the longer bellhousing because of the fluid converter.

Sure someone on this forum has the fluid drive and an OD trans, and could confirm this or not.

If your in the market for a Mopar r-10 I MAY have a source for you in No. cal.

Best to ya,

Doug

[CaptainGTX]

Plymouthy,

 

Caught on a techicality.  Still a 4 speed, 2 x 2 = 4.  What I should have said was one extra gear "ratio" compared to the Hy-Drive, which was a 3 speed.  (I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong.)  But the point of my post was that a 3.54 rear end seems to be about right for this car, which is similar to the OP's Plymouth.

[Dodgeb4ya]

There was only one over all length R10 overdrive. To use the R10 OD with HyDrive you would need to swap the HyDrive 3 speed input shaft and internal gears to make the R10 OD swap to the converter work. The driveshaft would need to be shortened to as the HyDrive trans is shorter than a OD trans.

The HyDrive transmission gear ratios are different because of more torque input to the trans because of the new HyDrive "Torque Converter".

I don't think the 3.54 would be a good ratio with OD in hilly area's with the 230.

Bob

[martybose]

I haven't seen anyone point out that you can't just bolt an R10 to a standard 3 speed, you need the special 3 speed tranny that goes with the R10.  The tranny case and reverse shifter rail are different so that putting the 3 speed into reverse automatically disengages the R10, otherwise you'd just be turning the overrunning clutch and nothing would happen.

 

Marty

[pflaming]

My car does not have an axle! If you have a 1953 Cranbrook, would you: measure the perch width and the rear tread width? 

Some dimensions for axle considerations: 

 

1953 Convertible Chassis Dimensions

Rear tread: 58.5 inches, Front tread 55.875 inches  Wheelbase: 114 inches ,

 Length: 189.125 inches. Width: 73.375 inches. Height: 60.125 inches.

 

Ford explorer

Perch width: 38.5 inches

8.8" -  Dimension between wheel mounting surface: 59.5"

 

The Ford Explorer 8.8-Inch rear axle has found homes in numerous vehicles besides the Explorer. It has been swapped in to Ford Rangers, Bronco II's, Jeeps, Chevy S-10's and even some cars.

The 8.8-Inch axle used in the Explorer is highly desirable because it came with 31-spline axles over the typical 28-spline found in the Ranger version. There’s a 20-25 percent difference in strength between this Explorer 8.8 and the Ranger 8.8. The bigger 31-spline axle accounts for most of that, but the 3.25-inch tubes also help. The 1991-1994 versions had 10-Inch drum brakes and the 1995 and newer models come with disc brakes.

[Plymouthy Adams]

stock tube of 3.00 on that year of Plymouth..while that is not a big deal when swapping the later gear, the tube diameter of 3.25 may make a bit of a difference when retrofitting the larger tube as you would need to arc the opening and well..this centering must be correct......also I do not think you can buy the 1.750 perches in 3.250 diameter but I have only sourced Summit for the perch and have not looked into possible larger tube replacements that may or may not be offered by a trailer supply house. 

[pflaming]

Picked up some replacement rims/tires so I can move this week. So activity will increase again. 

 

 

Honda's gonna lose her garage mate

 

 

Shop, 'cleaned' and ready.

 

Edited June 16, 2013 by pflaming

[DJ194950]

Picked up some replacement rims/tires so I can move this week. So activity will increase again. 

 

 

Honda's gonna lose her garage mate

 

 

Shop, 'cleaned' and ready.

 

Looks like my garage, AFTER cleaning during both my 50 Ply. projects! Should have have seen?? it before I Occasionally cleaned so I could quit tripping over all the parts/tools on the floor/inside of car. Waited until I could not tell were the car started and the garage met!

 

Man, you have some energy for an older person!!

 

If I could do what you do at almost 10 yrs. younger, I'd feel like a kid again!

 

Best,

 

Doug

[pflaming]

Doug: some of us have more years, some more mileage, some lived in rust attracting environs, some had accidents. I'm fortunate, but for distracting arthritis and poor hearing, I am in fairly good shape. My mind is still flexible enough and my ability to listen to the Plymouthy and Coatneys of this world so that I am still learning and happily so. Older bodies are like older cars; use them or they deteriorate rather quickly, even in a good garage. 

 

Researching for the build: So looking at pictures and reading posts so I have some idea of what is under the 'skirt'. 

 

This is what I've got.

 

 

Something like this is my goal

 

 

QUESTION: Does anyone have a front chassis picture of a 53/54 Plymouth similar to the one shown above?

 

EDIT: Still researching. The '53/54 frames are not the same as the previous years. The difference is little but important. The picture above shows a "platform" cross member at the front of the frame.

 

This replaces the axle so that the front suspension bolts to this platform. I scanned / cut and pasted the 51/52 frame and the 53/54 frame so I had a quick comparison. This schematic will also show me where the body mounts are.  

 

Edited June 16, 2013 by pflaming

[pflaming]

Couldn't wait to move the car, and since our trip to Maine got pushed up two weeks, I just had to start. It's not the pictures so much as the good news that I could turn the engine with a 15" crescent wrench. I put ATF in the cylinders several times over the past months which may have helped. The engine turned w/o much effort. I turned it two complete revolutions so encouraging.

 

(to be continued)

 

 

 

[Don Coatney]

If you have been dumping ATF into the spark plug holes make sure you spin the engine several times with the starter motor BEFORE you re-install the spark plugs. By doing so will clear the cylinders of most liquid and prevent hydraulic lockup.

[pflaming]

Removed the doghouse. There are five bolts behind the kick panel, two on the bottom edge of the fender, and two under the radiator support. Disconnect the heater hoses, the heater paper duct, the heater cable, electrical harness.

 

I could have lifted it off myself but should I slip, then . . . so got help. I thought I had steam cleaned that car before I brought it home, WRONG. Will now give that front suspension and engine one more THROUGH steam, then try and start the engine where it sits.  No real structural surprises here and that's encouraging. 

 

For many, these are just memory recall pics, for others, just a simple progressive pictorial of the car.  

 

No action now for four weeks. We're headed to MAINE tomorrow for a month. I trust these are not too boring. 

 

 

 

Doghouse on the B3B

 

 

Engine manifold side

 

Engine front view

 

 

Engine driver side

 

 

Antenna tube. Interesting mount, will have to study this a bit. I do not think it has a auto up/down but it may have been an option.

 

[pflaming]

Side views of the convertible scissor top frame. I will be working concurrently on freeing up the hinges of this frame and cleaning and then starting the engine. There are 14 hinges on each side and some adjustment screws plus the screw lifting 'jacks'. I will not disassemble this frame. It's just too complicated for me. I will gently work it til I can fold and unfold it manually, then fold it and leave it in its 'bed' while I address mechanical areas. Don't need a top in this valley to drive the car.

 

I'm using a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF for my penetrating oil. The acetone is a penetrating solvent which draws the ATF into the joint. It's totted as being very effective. We will see.

 

 

 

Same view with some angle.

 

[52b3b Joe]

Looks like a lot of fun! Its a lot of fun ripping into a new project like that. The car looks like it will be a nice project. Keep the pictures coming!