some progress...

[52b3b Joe]

Yeah it has fresh 90 weight in it up to the plug. I also pulled the plug to double check today. The outer bearings are greased also. The one part of the truck I banked on being done turns out bad....time to tear into it I suppose.

[ggdad1951]

FEF howls as well, the ring gear tips are a little worn and as the gear slips off it howls.

Edited March 16, 2013 by ggdad1951

[52b3b Joe]

Well, I got a far amount done this weekend. I basically have the front clip on and done, BUT after a few measurements and bad a bad gap on the driver side fender to door area, it appears the cab is sitting sideways on the frame. I'll have to look into that sometime this week. 

 

After battling water pump leaks, I decided to just buy a new one. Long story short...its still leaking! LOL I'll have to pull it off and try again the gasket that came with it looked questionable but I used it anyway. Looks like I should have just made one. I did get the thermostat housing sealed finally. I brazed over the weld on it to fix the pin holes in it. 

 

As far as the rear end goes, here is a video so you can hear it for yourself. I am going to hold off on anything until I find a 3.73 to put in. 

 

 

And for your viewing pleasures, some pictures of this weekends work. 

 

[JBNeal]

hmmmm...what kind of shape are the wheel bearings?  on them axles, they had a plug that had to be removed, replaced with a temporary grease fitting, lubricated 1/2 ounce, then the plug replaced.  Maybe they need to be lubricated if they aren't too far gone...whenever I grease up some wheel bearings like this, I try to have them rotating slowy as grease is applied.  That way grease will contact more surfaces than if the bearing was stationary.

[52b3b Joe]

hmmmm...what kind of shape are the wheel bearings?  on them axles, they had a plug that had to be removed, replaced with a temporary grease fitting, lubricated 1/2 ounce, then the plug replaced.  Maybe they need to be lubricated if they aren't too far gone...whenever I grease up some wheel bearings like this, I try to have them rotating slowy as grease is applied.  That way grease will contact more surfaces than if the bearing was stationary.

 

New outer bearings, races, and seals...I greased the bearing before I put the seals in and so I know they are good to go. So sound comes right from the ring and pinion. Sounds like the gears are not meshing right to me. 

[JBNeal]

if the pinion and/or differential bearings are too worn, that'll mess up the pre-load and backlash adjustments...they can be set as required, but if the bearings have too much endplay, then the effective pre-load & backlash will vary in & out of specifications.  The bearings in my '48 & '49 were tight enough, but since both trucks sat for decades, several bearing rollers and partial race surfaces showed galling, so I replaced them all.

 

FYI water pump leaks:  didja put pipe dope/thread sealant on the mounting bolts?  cuz they are screwed into the water jacket...same for the manifold bolts.

Edited March 18, 2013 by JBNeal

[Dodgeb4ya]

That rear end most likely is done. A 3.73 is needed- and real soon.

You will get through it all and be the happiest man in town when done! You are doing a great job on the truck!

[Jeff Balazs]

Hi Joe;

I don't know whether you have considered a Cherokee rear axle swap? It might be cheaper and easier than trying to find what you need to repair the stock axle.

Lots of different ratios available too. Probably not what you want to hear.......but it is an option. Hope things work out.

Jeff

[52b3b Joe]

I have concidered the jeep axle swap, but I like the challenge of finding the original parts. I want to keep the factory housing under the truck for looks and originality, but if all fails I will probably do the swap. I do have a couple leads for a couple possible 3.73s and one for a factory 3.54. I need to make sure the bolt count/pattern and spline count on the 3.54 is right. 

[52b3b Joe]

I know I said I wouldn't dig into soon, but I don't think I could have been able to sleep for a long time without knowing whats wrong. So today my dad had a "snow day" (he is the bus/school vehicle mechanic for our local schools) and I convinced him to get the axles out while I was at work. He agreed, and when I got home I went out there and took the pumpkin out. Just pulling it out I could see large metal shavings. It wasn't looking good. I cleaned it off a bit and put it on the bench. I put some old never seize on 8 or so of the ring gear teeth, kept lash on the gears and rotated through that spot to see the contact. The contact looked good. All of the bearings looked to be new as the PO told me, and they felt great. THEN I took my light and peaked at the pinion....there was the answer. To get a better look I took the bearing caps off and pulled the ring gear/spider gear assembly. The pinion teeth were razor sharp on the tops and had a nasty ridge on the bottom. There were all kind of longitudinal chips peeling off it. I took the pinion out and there it sits. 

 

The only good news is that I found the problem, and I have already located a factory 3.54 rear end for a swap. Based on pictures, the 3.54 is either really dirty or has some surface rust on the gears. I think it is still worth putting in if I can clean up the teeth enough. The gears are case hardened so I would think that I would be good. I'll put the new bearings in it from my rear end now, and should be cruising down the road at a nice RPM. Lets hope the 3.54 works out and I end up with it. 

 

Here are pictures of my rear and some of the one I want to buy

[Merle Coggins]

That would do it. I can't believe someone would have rebuilt that diff because of a noise and then reused that gear set.

 

Merle

[52b3b Joe]

That would do it. I can't believe someone would have rebuilt that diff because of a noise and then reused that gear set.

 

Merle

 

I think that the gear set was still good when he rebuilt it, I just think he set up the gears wrong. The pinion was way too far into the ring gear. I don't think the teeth were even making contact just riding at the base of the gears. Luckily the bearings are good and I just got off the phone to go look at that 3.54 replacement  I hope the 3.54 will swap in. Both are 16 spline axles and have 11 mounting holes. 

[1952B3b23]

Cool Joe hopefully it works out for you, i'll keep my fingers crossed

[48Dodger]

When you say "located"...ebay? Craigslist? someone here? Just curious.

 

48D

[52b3b Joe]

When you say "located"...ebay? Craigslist? someone here? Just curious.

 

48D

 

Ebay Classifieds. I kept googling different key words such as "1951 plymouth 3.73" and so using the seach and images until I searched "1950 plymouth 3.54". I found an image, clicked it and it was on ebay classifieds 2 hrs away. I got lucky. 

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=1950+plymouth+3.54&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44011176,d.aWM&biw=1680&bih=949&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=DbVJUYqDDsLbyQHwxYHoBQ

[48Dodger]

How much is he charging for the drop out? And is he selling it as rebuildable, or ready run.

 

3.54 sounds like a perfect gear for a daily usage, thou I've never run with the original tranny.

 

48D      

[52b3b Joe]

He is selling it as rebuild able but he said it rolls over easy and the gears look great so maybe I could get away with cleaning it up and running it if the bearings are good. Otherwise I will put the new bearings from the one I have in it. He has two ads for it I found one at $100 and one at $75, I'm thinking I'll get it for $75 or less. He pulled it out of a 55-56 plymouth savory. He said unknown mileage. He also said there was oil in the case when he pulled it which is a good sign. I think 3.54 will be very nice in the truck. I still think I will get away with pull a ~3000# trailer on flat ground over short distances too. My 230 is healthy, bored over and higher compression.  

[52b3b Joe]

Between last night and tonight, the front clip is shimmed and adjusted as best my dad and I could get. Looks like a truck again! I finally have all the little annoying coolant and oil leaks sealed for now too. Now I just need to get the rear end figured out and start finishing the bed. I am still waiting for a phone call from the body guy with my bed sides should be any day now I hope. I made plans with my dad for Saturday to go to the junk yard a few hours away to pick up some odds and ends I need to finish the truck. The junk yard is 30 minutes from where the rear end is, so it works out well. The only gamble I am taking is looking at the 3.54 after visiting the junk yard, so I will pick out a back up rear while I'm there in case we need to go back. The junk yard has 1959 and older only. Hopefully all works out and I come home with a truck bed of parts! 

[John-T-53]

With that 3:54, your truck will lug a little more, but you will definitely be able to cruise at higher speeds. I believe the stock three speed has a first gear of 3.1:1, so that's a difference of 1.74:1 overall drive ratio in first, considering:

12.71:1 with the 4:10 rears, versus

10.97:1 with the 3:54.

 

Good luck!

[52b3b Joe]

I picked up the 3.54 rear end yesterday. All looks good, especially after cleaning it up good in the parts cleaner. It has 4 spider gears like the truck 4.11, same axle spline count, and same mounting bolt pattern. The bearings look and feel good. It took me a while to get it cleaned up last night, and some friends came over putting a damper on things in the garage. Last night I was only able to clean it and make a new gasket. I woke up today and went out in the garage. I swapped over the pinion seal from the old one to the new one because it was brand new seal. I did have to swap my drive shaft yolk to the new pinion which was just a matter of pulling the old one off and pushing mine on. I put the pumpkin in, and all went smooth until it was time to put the axles in. I got the axles and bolted the backing plates in and I had too much end play. I spent most of the day fooling with shims getting that right. It's still not perfect, they are a little on the loose side but I'd rather that than too tight. While messing with all that I managed to rip one of the new outer axle seals I just put in a few months ago so I'll have to wait to finish it once I get the new seals. I filled it up with oil and greased the outer bearings. It rolls over nice and smooth. Looks like I'm in business! 

Edited March 24, 2013 by 52b3b Joe

[Don Coatney]

Does that diff have the infamous crush sleeve?

[52b3b Joe]

Does that diff have the infamous crush sleeve?

 

Nope, they are shimmed. Makes it much easier for me! 

[48Dodger]

"Crush Sleeve" is a bad word in my dictionary.

 

Nice work Joe...can't wait to hear how it works out for you.

 

48D

[Don Coatney]

"Crush Sleeve" is a bad word in my dictionary.

 

Nice work Joe...can't wait to hear how it works out for you.

 

48D

I agree. My diff has the crush sleeve. Problem is you must have the correct shims in place before crushing the sleeve. If you do not then you must start over but the kit only comes with one sleeve. Once crushed it stays crushed and it is not re-useable.

[52b3b Joe]

Well guys, all the work was well worth it! I finally finished the rear end swap after all my road blocks in the process. I started it up and threw it in 3rd while still on the jack stands, and it was a thing of beauty! All you could hear was the exhaust and the noisy fan turning some Rs. The rear end is the quietest part in the drive-line now! I can also notice the added speed the wheels are turning. I installed the bell-housing dust cover that I was missing. I found one on a truck at that junk yard. The original felt seals were perfect after spending some time in the parts cleaner. I also managed to FINALLY bolt down the seat frame which has been one of those simple tasks that I keep saying I'll get to the next time I'm working on the truck. With the front of the truck all on and with it sitting on its wheels again, it was nice to step back and see the reward. Its by NO means perfect, but it will be a decent driver. The front fenders a little wavy, and there are a few flaws in the doors, hood and cab, but I'm ok with it. I'm sure the bed won't be the best either, but I'm doing all this to drive it, so it will probably get some road scars in no time. I ordered all the door hardware today, so that's my next project along with painting the bed strips and getting the front panel of the bed painted with the cross members so I can start assembling the bed. At this point, my only major obstacles are saving up for the rest of the paint and to send out the grill to get restored. I think the grill will get shipped this week or next. 

Edited March 27, 2013 by 52b3b Joe