what kind of fuel

[tenn.jerry]

what kind of gas do you run in your flathead? i have heard of additives such as lead that one can add to the fuel. i was wondering if anybody does put anything in their fuel?

[Frank Elder]

You don't need lead, your exhaust valve seats were already hardened when your engine came from the factory....octane boost, lucas, mystery oil, stp, etc, put in whatever makes you feel good.

Gas, oil and water seems to work for me:)But not in the same tank!

[Merle Coggins]

I've burned several tanks of regular 87 Octane pump gas with no problems what-so-ever.

[41/53dodges]

my favorite analogy on this:

additives are like buying a diamond-studded collar for your dog, if it makes you feel good, go for it.

[Don Coatney]

my favorite analogy on this:

additives are like buying a diamond-studded collar for your dog, if it makes you feel good, go for it.

You are welcome.

[HanksB3B]

I really do like to pull up to the pump with my truck and fill-er-up with Chevron (my gas of choice) Regular. All my other vehicles use high test.

The item of concern is not the gas at all but that our flatheads really need either a high zinc content oil, or a zinc additive like ZDD Plus.

http://www.zddplus.com/

Or what I run:

AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motor Oil is specially formulated to provide superior protection and performance in a wide variety of demanding applications. By incorporating high-quality synthetic base stocks and a superior high-zinc additive package, AMSOIL Premium Protection Oil exceeds the needs of large and small gasoline or diesel engines in cars, motorcycles, trucks, motor homes, maintenance equipment, heavy equipment, street rods and marine applications. It is ideal for high-mileage vehicles, vehicles with flat-tappet cams and high-stress vehicles subject to hot temperatures, heavy hauling, trailer pulling or off-road use. AMSOIL Premium Protection Oil resists oxidation, neutralizes acids, inhibits corrosion, reduces wear and protects against deposits. It provides the extra anti-wear protection required by engines with flat-tappet cams and high-tension valve springs. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Premium Protection Motor Oil offers flexibility and performance beyond conventional oil for convenience and trouble-free operation.

http://www.vtwin-hd.com/1863033/

This is really important stuff. You don't want to be replacing your camshaft.

If anyone is interested in becoming a preferred customer ($20) or if you qualify to become a Retail Customer ($6), (you need a storefront or repair shop) you can purchase Amsoil at wholesale. The best way to do a group buy is for a group (like a car club) getting together and one person becoming a preferred customer.

Since these oils are good for 5,000 miles (so for us Pilothouse crew, this is a once a year deal) it does not make sense to just buy a product like Mobil 1 at Walmart and be done with it thinking that because modern lubricants are so far superior to what they used to be back-in-the day that you don't have to worry...Wrong. One way or another, our flat-tappet flat head engines need Zinc.

Hank

If you are interested, P.M. me if you need further help or want more information. Your friendly Amsoil Dealer, my wife...

P.S. This is not a diamond-studded dog collar.

Edited November 21, 2010 by HanksB3B

[TodFitch]

my favorite analogy on this:

additives are like buying a diamond-studded collar for your dog, if it makes you feel good, go for it.

You are welcome.

I suppose the unwritten final part of that is: Your dog doesn't care.

I've run the cheapest gas I can find with no additives in my old Plymouth since 1973. At present that would be 87 octane unleaded. But if they had lower octane available for cheaper I'd buy that instead.

Leave all the high octane, needs lead, stuff to the 1960s V8 crowd. They actually might find a need for it. But a stock Chrysler corp L-6 engine is plenty happy on standard fare.

[TodFitch]

I really do like to pull up to the pump with my truck and fill-er-up with Chevron (my gas of choice) Regular. All my other vehicles use high test.

The item of concern is not the gas at all but that our flatheads really need either a high zinc content oil, or a zinc additive like ZDD Plus.

http://www.zddplus.com/

...snip...

You might want to read the PDF file that is on the first post of this thread:

http://forums.aaca.org/f115/motor-oil-zinc-other-myths-272260.html

I strongly suspect that if you have an engine designed in the 1930s (like the Chrysler L-6 engines) then ZDP content is not an issue.

On the PDF, note following:

The new “Starburst”/API SM oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. They do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that is because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants that were not commercially available in the 1960s.

Edited November 21, 2010 by TodFitch

[Don Coatney]

A few thoughts on the oil issue. There are many flat tappet cams running in vehicles today. How could the ILSAC (INTERNATIONAL LUBRICANT STANDARDIZATION AND APPROVAL COMMITTEE) approve a product that would be potentially harmful to all these flat tappet engines that are on the road today? The same holds true for API (American Petroleum Institute) approval. I dont think either of these governing bodies would want to suffer the lawsuites that would happen should products that they approve cause engines to fail. So who are you going to trust? The governing body or the additive salesman?

If the Mopar flathead flat tappet engines were spinning 8-10 thousand RPM's and if they had very heavy valve springs then extra cam lubrication might be an issue. But for an engine that rarely (if ever) sees 4,000 RPM's I dont believe zinc or other additives are necessary. Now if someone can show me a bucket full (or even one) melted Mopar flathead camshaft that melted because a zinc addative was not used (and prove it failed because of a lack of zinc) I might change my mind.

Current API service categories include SN,SM, SL and SJ for gasoline engines. All previous service designations are obsolete.

[austinsailor]

Don, two thoughts.

First is, the low zinc is done because of EPA, which is more feared than much of anything else today.

Second, I just buy a drum of old style Rotella at about $7 a gallon, save money and not worry whether it's a problem in ours or not. I'm ahead money wise and don't have to worry about who's right or wrong.

[greg g]

Can any one find a date for which zinc phosphate was originally added to oil??

When our engines were built you could buy oil that was basically composed of oil.

Some of the cheap stuff was parafin based, and some even may have had whale oil or some stinky stuff made of castor beans.

I posted this question on another board and the only answer was that Torco brand, used basically at the time for racing, had some zinc in it in 1949. But no evidence of it in major retail brands till the late 50's.

So this brings us to the definative question in the arguement. If it didn't need it when it was built, why does it need it now?????

I remember the first big argument about upgraded lubricants was will this new fangled detergent multi viscosity stuff hurt my engine.

For those who think its necessary diesel oils still have a significat zinc element, as do high performance racing oils. But if you do research on most racing oils you will see in the fine print that it is not recommended for street driven vehicles.

As far as fuel I use whatever is in the pump on the regular selection. We have a native American nation that has a string of gas stations and they have an 86 octain economy selection, I have run that without any noticable difference in drivability.

and personally, I am more disturbed by the TSA than the EPA......

Edited November 21, 2010 by greg g

[Frank Ollian]

We are from the gov't and we are here to help you.

[Don Coatney]

We are from the gov't and we are here to help you.

What arm?

[Dodgeb4ya]

We are from the gov't and we are here to help you.

Yes, We all need the government to watch over us little helpless people. We need to put "Clean" electric motors in all of our old MoPar cars as they will then be up to the modern government standards for emissions. I need to get rid of all my old polluting cars and upgrade to a little "Cutsie" hybrid type car.

Then I will be a green and proper and up to date modern society person.

By the way Brad Penn racing oil has plenty of cam lube in it, just don't run it in a car with a cat! As for the fuels today- not a lot of choices any more, fuels change by the season-summer and winter bends. I'm more worried about what the fuels are doing to the carbs/fuel tanks and lines.

Cars today use plastic tanks/fuel lines and injectors for a reason-todays fuels require plastic fuel systems.!

Bob

[MBF]

The machinist that did my slant 6 told me to make sure that I used the Lucas additive with Zinc on that engine, and the flattys. The zinc was removed because the EPA wanted to reduce emissions or some other bs, and unless specifically listed as an ingredient is not in today's oils. Some racing oils have it, but Rotella does not. Thanks Uncle Sam for helping me out!

[JBNeal]

Fuel: running 87 octane for 10 years has not been a problem; in the spring, I've put a can of injector cleaner in an empty tank & then fill'r up to clean out any gum in the lines/carb. The '48 has practically been in storage since '08, but occasionally I'll need to move it outside to get something out of that garage. With 2+ yr old gas, full choke & part throttle, it fires up within 10 seconds of cranking every time, and within seconds it idles smoothly with no choke or throttle.

Oil: running store brand 10W30 is adequate for a stock engine. These are slow turning motors that have peak torque just off of idle. Keeping the sludge out of the crankcase by installing a PCV system & 180 thermostat will do a world of good for the internals. I dunno if any high performance additives can come close to lenghtening the service life of these flatheads compared to these performance modifications.

[Dave72dt]

I have one gas station I prefer to use that my daily, designed for 87 octane seems to get me the best mileage it also has 89 for the same price as 87 so I use the 89. It does seem to run better and for more MPG than the 87. If you haven't worn out the engine with the old oils, sucking all that all that crud that seems to accumulate and with the likely fewer miles it will likely get as a hobby truck, any good oil used in today's vehicles should work fine.

The 'OIL" topic always gets hotly debated and raises the hackles on every expert with no clear winners. We all will have our preferences and will use those regardless of the outcome of this debate!