starting and battery issues

[p24-1953]

okay i have 2 issues.... sorta

1.) i have went through 4 batteries in 2 years. Each time the car will start good and then all of a sudden one time it wont even turn over. Every time the auto parts place says that it is a bad battery and they give me a new one under warantee. I have rewired the car and there is not a draw on the battery when the car is turned off. what can kill a battery like that? i have noticed that the voltage guage is showing a slight positive charge while moving but shows a draw when ideling. is it possible to adjust the voltage regulator to put out a little more juice to the battery. Could this be killing the battery by not charging it enough ?

2.) slow start..... when the car has sat a 3 or 4 days it is very hard to start. there is gas in the carb, the accelrator pump is working, the choke is full closed, and it has to turn over 15 or 20 times while i pump the gas to get it to start. but, once it is running, you can turn it off and it will fire up on the first crank... it can be left over night and it will start up on the first time but leave it untouced for a few days and it becomes harder. What could cause this?

are the two related? low battery = slow crank = poor vacumme= slow start?

[greg g]

You mentioned rewiring and include voltage gauge readings. Are you still running 6 V?

Do you still have the amp gauge working?

When you rewired did you use proper gauge wiring for 6V?? Are you primary cables sized correctly for 6V operation?

Have you tried the factory recommended cold start procedure?

Pull the choke, and set the high idle by pushig the gas pedal to the floor once, then holding the gas pedal down about 1/3 while cranking the starter.

[Plymouthy Adams]

IF your starter turning slow is due to a dragging armature..just a few back to back starts will kill a battery dead...without any data supplied as to what your output voltage and current is from the generator..nor specific gravity of the battery..it is basically a guessing game..it is time to analyze this with some test and report some data..

[Rodney Bullock]

I had this problem where my starter was grounding out(slow motor turn over then battery had to be recharged) Try loosing your starter from the motor a little bit where you can move the starter (like breaking the ground from the block) if the starter motor turns faster hen the starter needs attention. I had to have mine rebuilt. Work great now.

Also make sure you have heavy gauge wire on the starter, battery connections and ground strap.

[Merle Coggins]

One more opinion...

1.) I wonder if you possibly have an intermittent key off draw. I"ve heard of cases where a voltage regulator sticks and causes a current drain even after the key is off. This could cause an internittent problem like you describe. Or, maybe a sticking dome light switch that keeps the light on, but you just don't notice it?

2.) I am reading this question as long to start, not slow cranking, yes? I experience this same thing because the gas evaporates out of the carburator when parked for extended periods of time. It will take a bit of cranking to get gas back up into the carb before it'll start up. The only way I know of to get around this problem would be to install an electric fuel pump to "prime" the system before starting.

Merle

[claybill]

i go with the 'prime' idea. 'cause it happens with my 41 too. i have a spray can of carb cleaner (better than starting fluid) and after sitting a few days i open the hood and spray a good shot of carb cleaner thru the air filter..bang! starts right up and the rpm's get the new fuel up in a hurry.

at least you can try it...(take stock air cleaner off to try)..if it works THEN YOU KNOW! a free and easy test.

bill

[James_Douglas]

What battery are you using ? If it is a sealed gel battery like an Optima there are problems with them and some stock voltage regulators.

James

[p24-1953]

okay, i took some measurements. the charge at the generator and the voltage regulator were fine, but the battery tested w/ a hydrometer said it was marginal. I took it to the store and they said it was a bad battery. It was manafactured in 2000 so they think is was old and wouldnt hold a charge. now the car turns over like it should but it still has a hard start after sitting. today i got the smart idea to examin the carb before starting.

the accelerator pump works good and sprays properly. i tried to start it and no luck. pulled the top off the carb and it was bone dry. i turned over the car and the carb did not fill up. there is no gas in the "in line" fuel filter.

So if the fuel pump fails will the gas drain back to the tank? what is the sign of the fuel pump failing?

[Reg Evans]

i go with the 'prime' idea. 'cause it happens with my 41 too. i have a spray can of carb cleaner (better than starting fluid) and after sitting a few days i open the hood and spray a good shot of carb cleaner thru the air filter..bang! starts right up and the rpm's get the new fuel up in a hurry.

at least you can try it...(take stock air cleaner off to try)..if it works THEN YOU KNOW! a free and easy test.

bill

I had been dealing with the hard to start flatties for many many years. Up until a few months ago I always had a couple of mustard squirt bottles around the garage filled with gas to prime my carbs with. What a pain in the butt. If I didn't prime the carb I would drain the battery before enough gas was pumped back into the carb to start the engine. Then one day Don Coatney described how he started his car after it sat for a while. He never has to prime the carb. All he does is give it a few cranks....then waits for maybe 5 seconds and gives it another couple of turns with the starter....then waits again for a few seconds and hits the starter again for a few revs. After a few of these cycles the car miraculously fires up.

I have to admit I though....Yeah...right, but I went out in the garage and tried this method on my 35 Dodge that had been sitting idle for a couple of weeks. BY GOD !!!! it started right up. Then I went over and tried this method on my 52 Dodge and it started right up too !!!! Then I tried it on my 38 and 42 coupes and they started up too.

Try it...... and report back.

My mustard gas containers have been retired now for months. THANKS again Don ! I'm not sure why it works but it sure does.

[woodie49]

I followed a number of posts a few months back about slow starting and having to prime the carb. Different gas than in 1940's etc. I missed Don's post about the miraculous starting system. I can't wait to get home to try it on both my Packard and my Woodie!

I am not surprised by your slow start problem, as I said there have been a few threads on the forum about this. Try priming the carb before the next time you start 'er up and it will probably fire right up.

In the Packard, the radio is not wired to the ignition, so, if I turn the volume down and forget, it will be deader than a door nail the next time I try to start. The Plymouth is not wired that way, but if you did some re-wiring, you might want to make sure all your accesories go off with your ignition. It sounds like you have something that intermittantly draws when your car is off.

[p24-1953]

okay here's a update. it has now been 4 months, i found out i had a leak in the carb, got a new one and fixed the long start after sitting, car had been running good, but it looks like i killed another battery. went out yesterday and it barely had the jucie to start up. once it ran and it charged for a while i had no problem stoping and restarting it. even if it sat for a few hours i had no problems. after it sat overnight. no luck it was slooooowww turning over. it seems like it is having a hard time holding a charge over time. i am planning to change to a alternator and omit the generator (soon but not in the next month), but what could be causing this? i have rewired the entire car with the proper size wire and i do not have a draw when the car is off. could i be overcharging, or doing something to kill the batteries?

[JIPJOBXX]

I have a cutout switch mounted right down by where the steering column goes through to the engine compartment and when I'm not driving the car I just switch that oft and it kills everything in the engine compartment plus all the misc. electrical stuff. Works for me as I have some type of slow leak on my battery also and played with it for the longest time but never did get it figure out. Also I leave a trickle charger plugged into my battery when the car is just sitting.

[Don Coatney]

I had been dealing with the hard to start flatties for many many years. Up until a few months ago I always had a couple of mustard squirt bottles around the garage filled with gas to prime my carbs with. What a pain in the butt. If I didn't prime the carb I would drain the battery before enough gas was pumped back into the carb to start the engine. Then one day Don Coatney described how he started his car after it sat for a while. He never has to prime the carb. All he does is give it a few cranks....then waits for maybe 5 seconds and gives it another couple of turns with the starter....then waits again for a few seconds and hits the starter again for a few revs. After a few of these cycles the car miraculously fires up.

I have to admit I though....Yeah...right, but I went out in the garage and tried this method on my 35 Dodge that had been sitting idle for a couple of weeks. BY GOD !!!! it started right up. Then I went over and tried this method on my 52 Dodge and it started right up too !!!! Then I tried it on my 38 and 42 coupes and they started up too.

Try it...... and report back.

My mustard gas containers have been retired now for months. THANKS again Don ! I'm not sure why it works but it sure does.

You are welcome Reg. Now I dont have to re-type this procedure.

[mikehalek]

Don's miracle starting system does not mention the use of a choke. I have a hand choke, under this system what do you do with the hand choke? Thanks, Mike

[Don Coatney]

Don's miracle starting system does not mention the use of a choke. I have a hand choke, under this system what do you do with the hand choke? Thanks, Mike

I have the hand choke connected on both of my carburetors but I never use them.

[greg g]

Pump the gas pedal to the flor onceor twice to get a squirt from the acc pump. then hold the pedal to the floor and pull the choke out all the way. This will set the highidle cam on the carb. Now withthe pedal held about 1/3 open crank the starter. When the engine catches, adjust the choke to get s smooth high idle. When the engine warms up enough to not need the choke, close it. Another stab of the accelerator might be needed to retrun to kick off the high idle circuit and return to normal idle.

When starting withthe engine hot, press the acc pedal about 1/2 open and old till the engine starts.

We have gotten so used to crank and go fuel injection, that a review of the owners manual is necessary once in a while.

Remember too, that todays fuel is formulated for a closed circuit and a virtualy sealed system. As such the blend tends to evaporate more quiclky than gas did even 10 years ago.

That said the squeeze bottle of priming fuel or the can of quick start is still a good thing to keep handy. Sometimes its not your car or fuel systems problem as it is the mix of gas in the tank.

[BobT-47P15]

Wellll, I tried something about like the above mentioned routine for starting the

convert today, and it seemed to work pretty much as described. Usually have pumped

it umpteen times before starting. I have to open the choke back up pretty quickly

to keep it from flooding. Thanx for the info.

[Reg Evans]

Don's miracle starting system does not mention the use of a choke. I have a hand choke, under this system what do you do with the hand choke? Thanks, Mike

All of my cars except the 35 Dodge have a manual choke. In my case no matter what season of the year using the choke never aided in starting the engines. I would always run the battery down with my old method of constant cranking unless I primed the carb.

[Norm's Coupe]

I normally don't have any trouble starting my coupe. Ever since I put on the last Carter manual fuel pump, I don't even need the choke anymore.

That said, I've had a lot of trouble starting my lawnmower a lot of times. After giving it a tune up, checking and cleaning everything it still gave me lots of trouble. When I did get it started it would be OK for about one pass or so across the yard, then die. Then not start again. Always acted like it was running out of gas. Finally, I paid closer attention to fuel in the tank. Looked really thin, like water. Added a small amount of HEET to the tank and it started right up, and, kept running fine after that.

About a week ago went out to start up the coupe to move it. Started right up just like it always does. But.........all of a sudden it coughed a few times, then the engine died. Then would not keep running when I tried to restart it. Just like the lawnmower does from time to time. Have about half a tank of gas in the coupe, so.......got out the HEET I keep around for the lawnmower, dumped a bottle in the tank. Car started right up and kept running as it always did.

This all started when they made the last reformulated gas changes about a year or two ago with the lawnmower. However, was the first time in the coupe. But........I haven't been driving it as much this year, so the gas is older. This stuff looks like water when it gets old, and probably is. It doesn't even have the strong odor of gas when it gets like that. Has hardly any smell at all.

So........maybe this is the same problem some of you are having. Try a little HEET in the tank when you have trouble starting. I keep the stuff around all the time, ever since I started having the problems with my lawnmower.

[Frank Elder]

Rubbing alcohol will collect the water out of your gas and allow it to burn also.

[normf@centurytel.net]

Rubbing alcohol is already mixed with water and is not anywhere near pure alky. For best results...use the product designed for de-icing .... such as HEET....I believe that is pure or near pure alcohol and combines with any water in your tank and than that combination combines with gasoline.

[pflaming]

Was visiting with my son in Maine who had lawn mower problems such as hasa been discussed. His mechanic said the new formulated fuels are tough on lawn mower engines and old fuel pumps, which has been stated above. He said the new gas loose their formutions, what ever that means, and recommended a Heet product that keeps the gas 'formulations' in suspension. Just a thought, not an expert.