Another 6 volt charging circuit question(s)

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Been awhile since I was on here. But anyway, I have some questions about the 6 volt system on my 49 Deluxe. The battery doesn't seem to be charging. Anyway... so far I have taken all of the cables and connections apart, cleaned them all up, re-installed. The generator is fine. I took the regulator off, cleaned the contacts, re-installed. Well, here is what I get now. At idle, both of the leads from the generator puts out around 6 volts. I didn't try increasing engine speed but will later. When I measure from the Bat connection of the regulator to chassis ( positive ) I get no voltage. 

 Seems like there's a lot floating around out there about these things. Just seeing if ya'll have some advice.

[soth122003]

Couple of things.

1. Your generator doesn't generate very much at idle. Has to be about 800-1000 rpms before it works right. Hence the fast idle cable for night drives at stop lights/signs.

2. What is your battery voltage? If it is 6.4 or better it's charged. The VR will not charge the battery unless it has a load applied.

3. The battery's main job is to start the car after that the generator supplies the electricity for everything else, unless the car is at idle, then it sucks from the battery.

4. Bump the idle up and turn on the parking lights then take a reading. Your battery should be charging at that point.

 

Joe Lee

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

When I measure from the Bat connection of the regulator to chassis ( positive ) I get no voltage. 

 

Hmmmm......shouldn't the BAT terminal on the regulator show battery voltage regardless of whether or not the regulator or generator is working? That terminal is connected via the ammeter to the battery.

Edited August 30 by Sam Buchanan

[Ivan_B]

I am not an electronics wizard, but I usually check the batty voltage with the ignition off, and then do the same with the engine running, bumping the idle up, if necessary. Do you see the positive difference? That usually indicates that everything is good

[keithb7]

I agree with what others are saying. Put a DC volt meter on the battery at idle. Turn on radio. High beams and heater fan. Voltage should be dropping steady. Rev up engine. Watch battery voltage. Hold engine RPMs up a bit. Battery voltage should be climbing again.  
 

I do want to add my typical plug for clamp style digital ammeters. Excellent tool to own for testing and troubleshooting these 6V cars. Highly recommend. 

Edited September 1 by keithb7

[Roofus]

On 30/08/2024 at 19:53, Sam Buchanan said:

 

Hmmmm... la borne BAT du régulateur ne devrait-elle pas afficher la tension de la batterie, que le régulateur ou le générateur fonctionne ou non ? Cette borne est connectée à la batterie via l'ampèremètre.

+1

[greg g]

The Voltage regulator will idle the generator if /when the battery is fully charged. So if your car starts right up, the VR will run the generator to replace the energy used by the starter, then idle the generator  till there is another draw (like headlights) is added to the system.  My car will typically take about 2 to 4 miles charging at 15 amps to replace starting load. Then it drops to zero or just a hair more on the ammeter. I believe this is done by energizing the gen's field coil if / when needed.

[joecoozie]

2

Edited September 1 by joecoozie

[Sam Buchanan]

19 minutes ago, greg g said:

The Voltage regulator will idle the generator if /when the battery is fully charged. So if your car starts right up, the VR will run the generator to replace the energy used by the starter, then idle the generator  till there is another draw (like headlights) is added to the system.  My car will typically take about 2 to 4 miles charging at 15 amps to replace starting load. Then it drops to zero or just a hair more on the ammeter. I believe this is done by energizing the gen's field coil if / when needed.

But the BAT terminal on the regulator should show battery voltage regardless of whether or not the generator is idling or running at full output. If battery voltage isn't present there must be a wiring fault.

[greg g]

VR not properly grounded?

[Sam Buchanan]

42 minutes ago, greg g said:

VR not properly grounded?

Wouldn’t be a factor if voltage is measured via the BAT terminal and opposite post on the battery or other good ground.

[greg g]

Time to do the field test.  

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

So here is an update. Sorry it took so long to respond. Been busy around here. The generator isn't putting out any voltage. Me and a friend ran through everything. All wiring has continuity. Check. There is voltage on the Bat connection of the VR. So I am going to take the generator off. I've had it off already and it looks to me that it was rebuilt. New brushes, clean stator, even has new epoxy paint inside the case. The fields are magnetized and will actually attract a screwdriver. There's hardly anything to go wrong here so not sure whats what. But I need to get it off there and see what could possibly be happening. Seems like a fool-proof design: Even the holders for the brush ensure a good solid connection to the stator. 

[Roofus]

there is a very simple way, to check the generator

Release it from the belt, open the regulator and press the palette of the relay the most on the left, if your generator turns slowly into an engine, it is good for the service and in addition it will be polarized correctly, If he does not turn he has a problem

 

Edited September 6 by Roofus

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Thanks Roofus. Yes. See if it will turn into a motor. Also, how did a 1949 Chrysler make it to France? 

[Roofus]

Because I imported it from South Dakota

Edited September 6 by Roofus

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Nice. There are a lot of old French cars I'd love to have here but getting them here isn't easy. 

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

After a LOT of trials and tribulations and after repeatedly taking the generator apart, cleaning, new brushes, re-magnetizing and  re-flashing the generator its simply not putting out enough voltage. At 3000 RPM its barely putting out 1 volt. So.... I am going to try to find a remanufactured generator. Not anywhere obvious that I can find one. Where do you guys get yours?

[Sam Buchanan]

This is where I got mine.  😁

 

https://www.ebay.com/str/HowardEnt?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

[1949plymouthdeluxe]

Those are all alternators. I've seen a few people do this where they take out the generator and install an alternator. I assume you bypass the regulator since these have them built-in?

[Sam Buchanan]

14 minutes ago, 1949plymouthdeluxe said:

Those are all alternators. I've seen a few people do this where they take out the generator and install an alternator. I assume you bypass the regulator since these have them built-in?

 

Yes, those are indeed alternators, I was just trying to make a light-hearted prod toward what will be your ultimate solution. 

 

You can either bypass the regulator or throw it toward the nearest trash can, the alternator is internally regulated and only requires one wire to connect it to the car. I have an alternator from the vendor I linked and it has been flawless for five years.

 

I don't have a resource for rebuilding your generator, maybe someone can offer one if you decide to take that path.

 

Edited September 16 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

optical confusion maybe.....that belt displaying massive issues with alignment.  

[DonaldSmith]

Maybe a local automotive electric shop (if there is one) can fix your generator/regulator. 

A local auto shop assembled my 6 v alternator, lo these many years ago.  He mentioned that to adjust a regulator, he had the car running in the shop for an hour, just to get everything settled down.  Sounds elaborate.

 

My 47 DeSoto had the grounding wire for the starter solenoid connected to the "A" terminal of the generator.  With the engine running, the back current kept it from grounding the solenoid, thus no grinding the starter teeth.  After installing the alternator, I just grounded this wire to the nearest convenient grounded surface. 

 

I could install an oil pressure switch, contact off when pressured (engine running), to keep from grinding the starter, but I don't do that often.

 

Grounding, grinding, my head hurts.     

[Sam Buchanan]

21 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

optical confusion maybe.....that belt displaying massive issues with alignment.  

 

Definitely optical convulsion, the belt tracks perfectly.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I figured it did but man is that picture confusing if you look close....