39 dodge d10 clutch issues

[kouseneric39]

need help

I bought a 39 dodge d10 with a rumble from the clutch but runs perfect it has a 53dodge engine tranny I was told 

I took the transmission off because it was pouring fluid into the clutch assembly witch i believed caused chatter issuesand found the car was missing the pilot bushing also the clutch spring housing was broken the throughout bearing sounded like it was dipped in sand 

I already had a spare tranny so From there I ordered a gasket kit new clutch pressure plate had the flywheel machined pilot bushing and throughout bearing 

So I tapped the pilot bushing flush with the crank couldn't find a definitive answer if the bushing is flush or not due to there being no bushing in there I had nothing to go by

I installed the bell housing to torque I then installed the flywheel that only lines up one way to torque

I then installed clutch and pressure plate also torqued

Put new throughout bearing 

The transmission then went on I got longer bolts to thread into the housing to slowy walk the transmission into the bell housing 

Going on i could push the Trans in by hand had to walk it in with bolts 

Once it was all back together I started the car still no floor so it was at idle with the clutch pressed in and the emergency brake applied the output shift of the Trans was stopped and the engines rpms didn't fluctuate so trying to **** I to any gear there's a grind 

Open father inspection I adjust the clutch forks clutch pedal linkage realize that both holes are egged from 85 years of use I put temporary spacers into the rods to take the play out of the linkage however in gear running with transmission shafts spinning this car is quieter than I thought possible the emergency brake pad makes more noise than anything lol 

So here is where I'm at I'm going to take this all back apart today to inspect for anything unusual I will check the spline on the input shaft however does anyone have a checklist of things to check also I need help with the clearance of my pilot bushing 

I want to know more about what a pilot bushing either clearance is to tight or miss installed what issues could that possibly cause 

I also would like contact info for someone who can rebuild my original Trans because even with it low on fluid and missing a pilot bushing still drove great

I'm 34 this is my only car I'm going to daily drive it so time is a factor please reach out with help I want to keep this old beauty crankin 

Thank you sincerely Eric 

Kouseneric@gmail.com 

475 224 6226

[Sniper]

The pilot bushing typically installs flush to the end of the crank. As for the rest I'm not exactly sure what you're asking for.

[Dave72dt]

It sounds like you're having difficulty getting the trans into gear because the clutch isn't releasing.  If you had to pull the trans in with bolts, the clutch disc may be binding on the trans input shaft or the pilot brg is binding on it.  The trans needs the correct oil and amount in it to provide some resistance to help slow the gears and the clutch itself must be properly adjusted for free play.

 

Using a disc that was saturated with oil is going to be a problem and may be the problem you're having.  The most likely is the disc binding on the shaft, One other possible I have seen is the disc installed backward.

[kouseneric39]

Got the trans out found a small brass line on the input shaft indicating to me that the pilot bushing may be have a burn and tighter clearance than allowed

Looking further into my clutch pedal assembly after years of wear there rods have egged out the holes they go into witch also may not be fully engaging the clutch 

I inspected the input shaft spline and the clutch slides nicely cleaned all spline with emery paper 

Also found a broken clutch return spring for the pedal so I'll order a new pilot bushing new return spring and see what happens from there

[soth122003]

Is the pilot bushing still installed and if so what is it's condition? Is it scored, mangled, pushed in further than you installed it? Is it stuck to the tranny input shaft? If you're ordering a new bushing, try a slip fit on the shaft before you install it.

 

Just checked my manual and when you install the bushing, the tool you're supposed to install it with drives the bushing in and makes it a wedge fit. When the tool is removed it burnishes the bushing making it a correct fit for the tranny shaft. After install, lube the bushing with a bit of grease.

The manual does not give specs on the bushing fit, but I'd imagine it will not be more than .001-002" of an inch when new. You just might need to burnish the current bushing to assure a good mating fit for the shaft instead of ordering a new bushing.

 

Joe Lee

[BobK]

The tranny should go in by hand...... you might have to wiggle it a little to get it flush to the bell housing..... and then you install the mounting bolts.  Bad things can happen if you use the bolts to draw the tranny to the bell.  I learned that lesson the hard way doing my first clutch job.

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, soth122003 said:

lube the bushing with a bit of grease.

Do not lube an oilite bushing

[kouseneric39]

OK so the bushing is still installed and looks to be in good shape I'm going to get a gauge measure it I did test fit the bushing  before I installed one 

Thank so much for everyone's help 

So I'm curious Joe if you have an idea of where I can purchase a burnishing pilot bearing instalation tool?

Further into the clutch pedal assembly I found both bushings for each ball and socket where shot also one of the two clutch pedal rods has an elongated hole 

Also the adjustment rod is fully adjusted but still could use another 3/8 to fully take play out of the pedal the rod has a bend to it not factory 

I'm deff going to fill and Redrill the egged hole and I'll make a new rod for the clutch fork adjustment 

So many pictures but I can't post them files are to big

[kouseneric39]

20 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

It sounds like you're having difficulty getting the trans into gear because the clutch isn't releasing.  If you had to pull the trans in with bolts, the clutch disc may be binding on the trans input shaft or the pilot brg is binding on it.  The trans needs the correct oil and amount in it to provide some resistance to help slow the gears and the clutch itself must be properly adjusted for free play.

 

Using a disc that was saturated with oil is going to be a problem and may be the problem you're having.  The most likely is the disc binding on the shaft, One other possible I have seen is the disc installed backward.

What is the best gear oil for my transmission I put in napa spl 90w non synthetic gear oil ?is this OK I'm sure there's something better 

Also on my car the clutch disc only can go on one direction due to clearance issues on the flywheel studs 

I also checked the input shaft and disc for any obvious marks there are none so I took time to use emery paper to thoroughly clear the spline I think I'll try to clean the splines on the new clutch 

However the clutch moves free on the shaft while on the bench

[kouseneric39]

Another key part I forgot to explain is if I start the car in gear the trans is spinning free and quieter than I've ever heard this car when I press the clutch pedal goes all the way to the floor however if I apply the e brake the trans shaft stops completely without affecting idle or stalling so this is the reasoning behind me looking into the pedal assembly itself because it seems the clutch must be partially engaged or the car would immediately stall 

 

[Kilgore47]

The pins in the clutch linkage will be worn also.  Check all the linkage - there will be more than one spot that is worn.  The first picture shows that it was close to failing.  The peddle had stopped returning to the top and this is what I found.  After repairing the worn spots everything works as it should.  

[soth122003]

5 hours ago, kouseneric39 said:

So I'm curious Joe if you have an idea of where I can purchase a burnishing pilot bearing instalation tool?

Just google pilot bushing tool. The tools don't so much burnish as they keep the ID from collapsing in when installing. Amazon has them or you can loan a tool from an auto parts store. Since your bushing is still in, I would measure the ID and check it against tranny shaft. It should be close and then use a light emery cloth on the bushing to clean it up. If it is an oillite bearing no lube, if not just a dab of grease in the bushing and install the tranny. Your bigger concern will be the linkage and such. Kilgore47's post was how mine was. Also look at your clutch fork. Make sure it is not bent and where the adjustment rod seats into is not worn out to much.

 

Joe Lee

[Dave72dt]

5 hours ago, kouseneric39 said:

Another key part I forgot to explain is if I start the car in gear the trans is spinning free and quieter than I've ever heard this car when I press the clutch pedal goes all the way to the floor however if I apply the e brake the trans shaft stops completely without affecting idle or stalling so this is the reasoning behind me looking into the pedal assembly itself because it seems the clutch must be partially engaged or the car would immediately stall 

 

If you could put some periods in your post it would help separate the one thought from another.  Are you saying the trans runs quieter when starting it in gear with the clutch pedal up than it does when starting in neutral with the pedal up?  Does the pedal come all the way up?  Is the free play correct?  If you found of ring of brass on the input shaft, it's probably too tight and likely slightly deformed from the install.

 

 

 

[kouseneric39]

 today after inspecting all of the clutch pedal linkage to fork I found the just rod going to the fork has a slight bend to it I run out of adjustment before it's adjusted enough.  so that's gonna have to be addressed also both sides of that those rods go into are elongated so fill and Redrill those tommarow.

Second I took the input shaft on the old tranny and tried putting it into the bearing definitely too tight for sure. so question is can I get something like a 3/4 hand flute and just ream the brass bushing?

How to I know if it's olite also?

Lastly I used 

Sae 90w

Mineral gear oil

Api gl-1 is that going to be OK for this application thank you

[FarmerJon]

https://p15-d24.com/topic/61169-1949-plymouth-transmission-fluid/#comments

[soth122003]

2 hours ago, kouseneric39 said:

Second I took the input shaft on the old tranny and tried putting it into the bearing definitely too tight for sure.

How tight is to tight? A couple of thousands? Or more than 10? I personally wouldn't use a ream as they come in set sizes and may not match the shaft size. I would wrap some emery cloth around drill bit of close size and using a lite oil, hone the bushing a little at a time until the fit is smooth. If the fit is more than .010" I would replace the bushing using the correct tool. That said, you do you. 

 

2 hours ago, kouseneric39 said:

How to I know if it's olite also?

Oilite bushings tend to be a bronze color and using a magnifying glass you can see the surface is porous and has an oil like sheen.

 

Joe Lee

[kouseneric39]

I ordered new pilot bushing and the installation tool.thank you all very much for your help

[Los_Control]

In the past I always just used a correct fitting socket to drive in a new pilot bushing.

 

I like the idea of using bread to remove the old one ..... hydraulics work great.

Driving a new one in was always just clean up the hole and pick a right size socket to fit the bushing. .... Then drive it home.

 

I think it was one of those cheap 5/8" spark plug sockets we never use last install of my pilot bushing. ..... Just suggesting a special tool is not needed. What you want is a socket or spacer or something that actually fits well. A special tool is not needed, you just need a correct fitting socket from your tool box to install it.

 

Same difference driving in a wheel bearing race or any other bearing .... You just need something that fits the race and will not destroy it while driving it in.

 

So buying a special tool to drive in a pilot bushing ..... It might be a good tool, you might be better off just searching through your old junk sockets and drive it in that way.

 

I'm just saying that a lot of cheap tools are available and never actually work. A cheap socket that cost you $5 to replace, may be the best tool.

 

You are looking for a tool that will fit inside the hole .... sane time it will provide protection as the bushing is driven in ..... A screwdriver will cause damage ..... but a correct fitting socket will drive it home with no damage. ..... Never in my life did I buy a pilot bushing tool ..... For a $$$ you can buy a set of tools to install any bearing....thats up to you.

[Booger]

You guys are so good! 

Transmission and clutch work are impossible without a lift. Jackstands?

Weve all done it..but please dont.

Archive this one. Great contibutions

[Sniper]

The pilot bushing is an oilite bushing

 

DO NOT USE SANDPAPER on oilite bushings

 

DO NOT REAM an oilite bushing

 

READ

 

https://oilite.com/best-machining-practices

 

 

Edited April 15 by Sniper

[kouseneric39]

[kouseneric39]

[kouseneric39]

This is the pedal linkage that needs to be refilled

[kouseneric39]

The first pick is the new/very old transmission that came in the trunk.

Second picture is of my input shaft from driving for years with NO pilot bushing.

Surprised this car drove great with only a slight noise while idling with the car in neutral.

[kouseneric39]

May be hard to see in this picture but the clutch fork adjustment linkage is bent. I'm going to a machine shop today to have a new one made.

I'm also going to add 1/4 to 3/8s of length to the threaded side to allow me to adjust the clutch properly.

My machinist is charging 100 bucks to fill and redrll the holes that are e longgated as well as making me a new adjustment rod I feel is worth all of the money.