Still grinding into reverse

[Doug&Deb]

Okay I made a new rod end for the clutch release (being a machinist has its upside). Now I have the correct free pedal travel but it still grinds going into reverse. It didn’t do this until I swapped engines so I’m confused. It’s the same transmission (Gyromatic) with a rebuilt clutch assembly. The car drives fine and the transmission works as it should. It’s just tough to get into gear. 

[Sniper]

What is the plate departure at the at the clutch with the pedal fully depressed.  I usually shoot for .060" between the clutch disc and pressure plate.  I let pedal free play be where it is if I hae .060".

[soth122003]

Since you swapped engines, did you change the mounts? Sounds like a small adjustment issue. Engine may be the same type and mounting but when removed and replaced/reinstalled the alignment may just be a tad off. The engine may be a 32nd of an inch of at the mount which can translate into a bigger bit of play at the linkage. Might check that first.

 

Joe Lee

[Sniper]

That is why I prefer the plate departure method, it accounts for everything in the linkage,

[Doug&Deb]

Sniper I don’t know how to check that adjustment. I’m willing to learn if you can explain it to me. The front engine mount is new. The rear mounts I didn’t change.

[Los_Control]

My 1991 chebby with a NV3500 5spd .... will not go into reverse without first shifting it to 5th then pull it straight back to reverse.

I simply need to align the gears so it works.

 

If I try to go from 1rst gear into reverse .... will grind like a stuck pig & never get it there.

If I go from 1rst to 5th then to reverse it goes in so sweet with no complaints.

 

Just asking if you have tried switching to other gears before going to reverse?

Might not make sense, but works for me ..... Should I rebuild a transmission that works perfect everywhere except going into reverse?

But switching it through the gears first it does act perfect.

[Sniper]

18 minutes ago, Doug&Deb said:

Sniper I don’t know how to check that adjustment. I’m willing to learn if you can explain it to me. The front engine mount is new. The rear mounts I didn’t change.

 

Take the clutch inspection cover off, have someone press the clutch pedal to the floor, take a feeler gauge and measure the gap between the pressure plate and the clutch disc, that should measure 0.060".

[Sniper]

From the Nov 1979 Direct Connection bulletin

 

 

[Doug&Deb]

Sniper first I have to find the inspection cover. The bottom bell housing cover has the transmission mounting studs. Do I need to remove the trans for this procedure? Also where do I make the adjustment? The clutch fork rod?

[Sniper]

You may have to take a screen off to get the room to measure the departure.  You'd adjust it like the FSM says, but measure the departure rather than the free play.  As long as the free play is in spec at 0.060" departure you should be ok. 

[DonaldSmith]

I was looking for the inspection cover on my fluid drive wonder car. No simple thing.   The bottom of the bell housing is removable, but is a structural part of the assembly, with brackets from the engine and bolt holes at the transmission.  Do you have the fluid drive? 

[Sniper]

No fluid drive for me

[Doug&Deb]

Mine is. That’s why I’m wondering how to access it. Fortunately I have the old engine on my homemade cradle so I’ll check it out. Sniper if I’m understanding correctly use the same adjustment as before but measure at the disc, right?

[9 foot box]

   A rebuilt clutch has a break in period. I would drive the car and let it go through your shifting sequence, and see if it doesn’t improve and come up to your expectations after driving a few miles of stop and go driving. Rick D.

[Sniper]

8 hours ago, Doug&Deb said:

Sniper if I’m understanding correctly use the same adjustment as before but measure at the disc, right?

 

Correct

[greg g]

Before engaging reverse, briefly select second gear, then try reverse.   That process will engage the synchro, allowing reverse to be selected without grinding or with reduced difficulty.  If this works, you don't have sufficient travel for the friction disc to be completely declared when you push down the clutch.  There isn't enough friction  to movethe car but enough ti keep the input shaft turning. You also want about an inch of free play at the top of the clutch pedal travel, before linkage rods start moving.  The correction is to lengthen the actuator rod so it bushes the throw out bearin farther. Sometimes a quarter  inch travel will make the difference between engaging and grinding. 

[Doug&Deb]

Greg, I’m going to tweak the adjustment some more. As far as shifting to second gear before reverse I have the M6 trans and I’m not sure it operates the same way. It’s difficult to get into any gear but since reverse has no synchros it grinds. I think I’m not taking into account the slop in the linkage. I’m checking at the clutch fork as per the manual but the front of the rod is probably wallowed and I’m not getting an accurate measurement. 

[Doug&Deb]

Sniper I tried to adjust the way you explained but on a fluid drive car there is no access to the clutch disc. None of the vent screens are anywhere near the clutch. I’ve adjusted the free play out of the linkage completely. This has minimized the grind but not eliminated it. I’m going to drive the car to try and break in everything and see what happens.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Is it a new/rebuilt disc and pressure plate?..think that's what you posted at the beginning...

If so possibly the problem is in the disc lining being slightly too thick.

But try eliminating all clutch free play to zero and see if it won't grind ...

You can check visually for pressure plate to disc release clearance...

Remove the bell housing lower cover and have the clutch pedal held to the floor.

You should be able to use your finger and easily push/move just the clutch disc around between the stationary FD driven plate and the pressure plate.

If not there is not enough throw out bearing/fork movement, new pressure plate rebuild issue or too thick of rebuilt clutch disc...just some more ideas.

These Fluid Drive clutchs are simple and not trouble prone.

But today some of the rebuilt parts are built to the wrong specs differing from factory.

[Doug&Deb]

It’s removing the bell housing that’s the problem. The bottom plate is part of the structure. I have no idea how to check the clearance. I adjusted the free play out and I’ll try to be careful going into reverse. It still grinds but not as much. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Have never seen a MoPar Fluid Drive bell housing that the lower portion (cover) isn't removable.

[Doug&Deb]

Would I need to remove the transmission to get it off? The rear mounts go through that part don’t they??

[DonaldSmith]

Tangs on the upper part of the bell housing support the engine-bell housing assembly on the rear mounts.  

The bottom of the bell housing should come off without removing the rear mounts.  

Two transmission bolts that go into the bottom part have to be removed.  There are brackets from the bottom part to the engine block that have to be removed. 

I'm guessing that all this is for strength on the road, and can be removed for service.  

 

 

 

 

 

e bottom part can come off when the car is jacked     

[Doug&Deb]

Thanks. I’ll give it a shot as soon as I can. I’m going to try driving it a bit and see if breaking in the clutch changes anything for better or worse. I only want to do this once if possible.