Trunk and floor pan help

[Purple Moo Cow]

Its been a while since I've posted on here. I have managed to get my 48 d24 road worthy-ish. Replaced the brake master cylinder, new lines, nice firm pedal. Bought some moderately priced tires, just so I could enjoy the road some. I want to install the actual gas tank I purchased almost 2 years ago finally but have to fix the trunk pan first. I've purchased an inexpensive welder for this but I am unsure of how to move forward with the fabrication part. I don't exactly have hundreds of doors to spend on a bead roller, english wheel, etc. just to fabricate a trunk pan. I've been looking into videos doing it just with a hammer, some molds, and a lot of elbow grease. Is this feasible? I scoured the forums for suggestions but the Plymouth doctor and rcarrestoration are no longer in business. I'd like to avoid spending $100 on some cheap e-bae pan and I'm excited at the idea of creating my own...I just also don't want to bite off too much. I feel like my trunk pan has lots of places that could be patched, but maybe I just build in a whole new trunk? I'm looking for some wisdom and guidance on this. What's realistic? Will patching just bad spots be better? Should I try and fabricate a new trunk pan section by section? If I just cut out a massive portion and use it as a template will I destroy the integrity of the car somehow? Or is there someone near the Augusta, GA area who can provide help? Just trying to make the best decision the first time around. Thanks!!!

 

Photo of trunk attached (hopefully)

[Plymouthy Adams]

just how bad is the pan?  I see some holes near the trunk latch...it also looks quite scaly in the actual pan but looks as the wheel well is solid as this had drain holes already and has done its job of not letting water stand....if little pressure will allow a push through of an ice pick..yeah, candidate for complete pan.  Most pans when made for replacement allows X distance up along the curved portion that likely was not expose to long standing water...it is this point you wish to cut and use as solid metal to full perimeter weld your pan and based solely on the foot print of the replacement item.  If making this yourself, this is how you go about finding the CUT line and establish the parameters for you to fabricate your own.

[Purple Moo Cow]

@Plymouthy Adamsyes sir the wheel well is not that bad. It's primarily the area above where the gas tank sits and then the left side where it begins to bend up has some small holes. 

 

To test for what must be replaced, I simply push with a pick on it? Some other people were saying it should be more like a moderate tap with a hammer

[Dave72dt]

If you want to attempt making your own panels, try forming a panel before you cut the old one out.  You need to duplicate the shape before cutting.  Your replacement panel can be made from more than one piece.  The original piece was stamped so getting some of the rolls, curves, indents and bends to match in a single piece will be almost impossible.  You can build a larger piece from several smaller pieces joined together.  Check Fitzees Fabrications on youtube if you haven't already.  He does a lot of multipiece panel forming.  If you just purchased a welder, some practice with it may be in order as well.  Practice your sheet metel welds with an air gap under the practice pieces.  That's the way they will be when installing them.  

[sidevalvepete]

Good advice above...a further example of what I think is good quality work shown in a real situation is the Cold War Motors guys doing the rebuild of a 1960 Plymouth Fury. Excellent vids of a whole range of restoration work including panel work,  painting, upholstery and stainless trim panel beating. Lots of videos but they are well indexed to pick and choose from. Check it out on you tube.

[Los_Control]

I am just learning myself. Not sure I would want to use a sharp ice pick with a hammer .... would create holes in good metal.

I have heard using a screwdriver, either flat or Philips ... or a ice pick by hand to test the integrity of the metal. No need for a hammer.

 

Fitzee is awesome at showing how to make complicated panels with simple tools.

I made a cheap metal bender that I put in my vice. It has a piece of angle iron bolted in place now for straight bends.

I have a length of 1" pipe I can replace the angle with & get a tight radius or bend other direction over the 2.5" pipe for a larger radius .... you have options.

 

 

I just used it to create these patches for the floor of my truck. When the truck was parked in a field, there was a low spot where water stand & did rust out.

The rest of the floor pan is pretty good, looked like yours until I cleaned it up with wire wheels, sand paper, grinder ....

I did treat the rust with ospho, then I welded the patch on top. ...... Like a total noob.

 

 

A true professional would have done the cut & butt welding technique .... blended it in and you would never know there was a patch there.

Problem with cut & butt, you need to hammer & dolly the weld ... Heat will warp & create low spots.

A good welder can eliminate most of those issues, some hammer dolly work will be needed ... or putty to fill the low spots.

 

Question, are your arms 10' long that you can hammer & dolly the welding seams? ..... Make it look perfect? ..... Neither are mine.

Only suggesting, as noobs we need to pick our battles. I did properly cut & butt the exterior body patch. It will require filler .... I just can not body work that area properly.

I'm ok with filler on the body panels to a certain point. On the floor I do not want filler.

So that is my choice, rust treated with rust converter, a patch overlapped, seam sealer on welds, rusty metal primer & paint, throw a carpet over the top of it.

The underside will be treated the same way.   This will last my lifetime.

 

 

As suggested, you may need to use several pieces to make complex panels. This transmission cover is really junk. I know of at least 9 separate pieces of metal welded into it to make up the complex shape.

It is not restored .... I call it repaired for use. Painted heavy with a brush, let it self level ... will look fine with carpet over it.

 

As a total noob myself. You need to ask yourself what your expectations are. Do you want to do the repairs or hire them out. For my first attempts of body work I'm not proud of my repairs, I feel confident they will last. .... May not be pretty.

Every repair I do, I learn from & think how next time I will do better.

[Tired iron]

looks pretty good to me!  Im with you...there are some situations where I put the time and money in to get it perfect, but often I settle for practical and realistic.  After all, Im doing all the work myself, learning lots and having fun on the way!

[Purple Moo Cow]

@Los_Control ya I can survive with it not being perfect...it's in the trunk and then I'll potentially work on the floor near the doors, but ultimately it's not a body panel. I want to learn, I don't want to hire out if I can help it. It's been a life dream of mine to learn to restore and then restore some old cars. They don't necessarily have to be perfect, but not junk either. I appreciate the insight. N I'll definitely check out some of the videos @sidevalvepete and @Dave72dt recommended. 

[Art Bailey]

 You can do it. I get the feeling you really want to, anyway  The trunk is a great place to make mistakes...no one will see it, and you can slather it with undercoating. 

 

What everyone already said about videos. CWM just posted a video where he makes a tape template, which is great for getting the contours in something like a floor pan, and figuring out where the shrinks go. Add Make It Custom to your video channel list---Karl is a master, and has lots of tips and tricks for working on a budget. Trev's Blog is another favorite. And Carter Auto Restyling...not only does that guy have serious skills, he manages to do it with something like $200 worth of tools. 

 

I'm in the same boat as you, rust wise. The worst of it in my project is right up by the hump, under the X brace, and around the trunk lock area, though I suspect there's plenty lurking under the stainless rocker panel trim. It's driving me nuts to not be able to put the new gas tank in. I got an OA set-up around September, and I've been practicing welding instead of wrenching all winter, when the temperature has been mild enough. I'm no master and never will be, but the results are getting to be predictable, almost to the point where I'm ready to have at it. I also got a front fender from a '62 Buick that I'm going to be practicing metal bumping on...don't want to practice on my project. When it comes time to make the trunk floor, I plan to bash in the ribs by placing the sheet metal over some flat stock, and persuading it with a BFH. I might get fancy and make a hammer form, like Karl shows in one of his videos. Keep us posted!

Edited February 28, 2023 by ratbailey

[Los_Control]

@Purple Moo CowI'm with you 100%. ...... I'm a retired carpenter I send my vehicles out for work .... in the past.

18 minutes ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

ya I can survive with it not being perfect...it's in the trunk and then I'll potentially work on the floor near the doors,

 

What I did was work on a stupid project to learn how to weld.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To me the big deal was learning to weld thin sheet metal. You said earlier that you bought a cheap welder & learning.

Too me that is a big issue. I bought this lawnmower 4 years ago for $35. .... It had no front hood on it, caused a problem with the electronic ignition when it rained.

So I built a hood for it.

Nothing to do with your truck, but is a idea how to practice your welding ..... on something you do not care about.

 

Still curious on what your cheap welder does. .... Typical 110 fluxcore is terrible  on body panels, while my more expensive welder has a terrible operator.

Your car will need some welding.... I wonder if you are the welder.

 

[Purple Moo Cow]

@ratbaileyI've been watching a lot of make it kustom videos. Learning a lot, getting a lot of good background knowledge I think on what I'm about to get into. I appreciate the support aha and yes you're right I do want to so I will. What's the point of owning the project car if not to work on it?

 

@Los_Control ill definitely need some practice welding I'm sure. I only have a little experience with arc welding and this is very different. Unfortunately a flux core welder is all that was in the budget for now so that's what I'll be using. I know solid wire mig is better according to the experts, but this wouldn't be the first time I used inexpensive alternatives and got a good enough result. It's certainly doable, plenty of videos of people using it to patch and repair sheet metal. Worst case I totally mess it up, cut it out, and start over

[Tired iron]

Does my expensive Hobart MIG produce better welds?  Absolutely. But, I sure learned lots on my hundred dollar Harbor Freight flux core...and made lots of stuff, including patch panels,  And, as the saying goes: You dont need to be the best welder, just a good grinder.  Have at it!

[Purple Moo Cow]

@Tired iron I appreciate the support. Maybe one day I'll have a nice welder too, but for now it's HF's finest

[Los_Control]

They are good welders. I watch Uncle Tony & he only uses a HF welder. He had one for 10 years and wore it out, replaced it with the same welder.

He built one car "slag hammer" using only the HF welder. Mid 60's Dodge 4 door converted to 2 door. Sits on a Dodge truck frame with a straight axle, 1 piece tilt front end.

He had to build a complete floor pan .... I do not know what he did for a roll bar.

 

Recently he welded a freeze crack on a engine block using it. He claims that he has welded cast iron with them before with good success. Something about the heat and how you can control it .... where a arc welder or gas welding will fail, a fluxcore welder will work.

 

Last week he ran a howto video on welding up the spider gears in a rear end using the HF welder.

 

My only issue with fluxcore welding, I just suck at it.    I know others do it and do it well. I'm fine with thicker metal.

Just sheet metal I have a hard time turning down the heat and not burning through.

 

Sometimes I want to blame my welder, knowing today what I did not know in the past. I probably would not have bought my welder.

Your average mig welder, left knob is heat & right knob is wire speed .... simple as it gets.

 

My multi process welder has too many options & settings, I spend more time trying to learn to operate it then welding.

I have wondered if I had a simple HF welder, I might do better with sheet metal? I have thought about picking one up to try.

 

Currently my welder is setup for flux core. Gas is a problem for me. To buy the large bottle of gas they wanted more then $450 without tax. Then I own the bottle & just have it refilled as needed.

I have been going to tractor supply for gas. They have a trade in program I bought a small bottle for $100, then next time traded up for a medium sized bottle.

Was going to trade up for the large sized bottle this time and they stopped the program.

I took the bottle I have and had it refilled, they informed me the 10 year certification just ran out .... they filled it but next time it needs to be sent out to be re-certified.

So I have a 1/2 bottle of gas and saving it for when I need it.

 

Just saying, mig welders are nice, they are not all peaches & cream though.

I use fluxcore every chance I can to save gas .... I just suck at it with my welder, I hope you do better with yours.

Sorry for long post, just wanted to apologize if I sounded like a arse yesterday .....

[kencombs]

Big bottles or CO2/Argon mix are nice, but not necessary.  I used small CO2 bottles for years before upgrading.  My tanks started life as Kidde CO2 fire extinguisher bottles.   The fitting was changed to accept a CO2 regulator.  Nice size, as they fit the carry hole in the back of a lot of little 120v Migs.  Mine is made by Century, since purchased by Lincoln.    Made a nice little portable rig.  Easy to get it close to the work to make up for the short stinger most have.

 

CO2 shielding creates more spatter than Argon or mixes, but penetrates well.  

 

If you can find a couple of 5lb bottles and a supplier that will certify and install the fitting they work great.  Fill both to start the swap and fill as needed.

 

I think I have used flux core a couple of times when I needed to weld outside and didn't need particularly neat welds, good thing too, 'cause I don't do neat very well.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by kencombs

[Veemoney]

I find the flux-core wire you purchase makes a difference as well depending on the brand. Lincoln wire seems to run a lot cleaner than some other brands I purchased. Some flux wire is single pass only also so make sure you are aware of what you are buying.

 

Here is a link that covers some details and pros/cons of MIG vs FC welding applications

Flux-Core vs. MIG Welding: What's the Difference? (weldguru.com) 

[Los_Control]

I had no intention on derailing this thread and going off topic. Tools are important when working on cars.

I also think having fun and enjoying the process is important for a hobbyist like myself.

I do not make a living with a welder, it is something I need once in awhile .... when my truck is finished, I may use a welder 2 or 3 times a year?

 

I bought my welder on sale as a floor display model, normally $1200-$1300 .... I told the wife I bought it for $700  

Now that I have it, is another extra $500 for the big wammer jammer  bottle of gas. Then is another $500 to get all the accessories for tig .... pedal & hose.

Then you start adding up the cool helmet, gloves, ..... clamps will drain your bank account getting all you need.

A guy could get upside down quick setting up a welding situation. .... When a $100 welder from HF can do everything you need.

Nice though if you can sell your services and make it pay for itself.

 

The fluxcore welders are part of this hobby, like me rebuilding my truck in the carport or our Grandfathers stealing their mothers elctrolux vacuum cleaners to paint their cars.

The hobby can be expensive, it does not have to be.

 

[LeRoy]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

thers stealing their mothers elctrolux vacuum cleaners to paint their car

wut you talkin bout willis?