Chrysler Rotating Recessed Crank with Radiator stand in-place

[wagoneer]

 

I'm trying to turn the crank and I my 1 13/16 sockets don't fit in the space between the radiator holder and the pully. My belt/fan alone doesn't turn the crank (just slips the belt). 

 

I'm a bit worried to lift it up by the pan so much that something may get stressed. 

 

I considered removing the radiator stand, but it looks pretty solid and will no doubt precipitate a whole new set of things to around the body work. 

 

How can I precisely move the engine so I can time it easily? Ideas on which way to make it happen?

 

 

Someone on a recent forum mentioned potentially using a fly wheel turner? Anyone can give some easy instructions how to do it while the vehicle is up on stands. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Radiator stand seems solidly connected.

 

[chris 48 P15]

go to the other end of the engine remove inspection cover on bellhousing

turn engine from flywheel maybe can use big flat screwdriver or flywheel turner

[keithb7]

Did you loosen all the spark plugs? 

[Los_Control]

Not sure about the inspection cover, but you can remove the starter & use a large flat screwdriver or prybar to engage the teeth on the fly wheel.

 

I do not remember where you are on your engine .... Like Keith says, pull the plugs ... add a little oil .... use the starter to crank the engine to loosen it up.

Then you should be able to turn it by hand with just the belt ... And not remove the starter.

[Los_Control]

The part you are talking about removing, is the last piece you take off .... or the first piece you put on .... depending how you look at it.

 

[Merle Coggins]

Did you try tightening the belt, then try to rotate with the fan? I've also had success turning an engine with the fan by pressing in on the belt to get a better bite on the pulley's while turning the fan. 

[kencombs]

27 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

Did you try tightening the belt, then try to rotate with the fan? I've also had success turning an engine with the fan by pressing in on the belt to get a better bite on the pulley's while turning the fan. 

That was my first thought.  Tighten the belt, and press on the slack side while turning it.

[Sniper]

2 hours ago, kencombs said:

That was my first thought.  Tighten the belt, and press on the slack side while turning it.

With the plugs out

[wagoneer]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:14 PM, Sniper said:

With the plugs out

 

And let's say it doesn't spin freely then. The engine does spin by the starter. Why would it be so "tight" to free spin? 

The sockets have very thick walls. What would be useful is to find a thin-walled socket extension I could stick a large wrench on like this but 1 13/16 in size. There is room to slip it between and maneuver it and put a wrench on (northern tools has them). Can't find a big enough one though. Shower sockets just don't get that big...

 

[keithb7]

Last time I just plowed ahead and removed rad. Wasn’t hard. Rad came out of my ‘53 quickly. 
 

Later I got a flywheel turning tool. Worked great too. Image shown. Why is engine hard to turn with plugs out? Good question. Do you have any history of this engine? When you say starter turns it over, yet cannot be turned by hand is concerning.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by keithb7

[Sniper]

I dunno, I could turn mine over by spinning the fan, with the lugs in,  But I also only have 50 psi, give or take, of compression.

 

I really don't think there is any way a socket and ratchet would fit on the crank bolt in my 51, the cross member is in the way.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Sniper

[Los_Control]

I'm curious if you have tried to turn the water pump & generator individually? Is possible one of them is locked up causing problems turning by hand.

My engine has the original style water pump, it has some old grease in it and gets very stiff & hard to turn by hand .... Generators have bearings.

 

These engines do turn over fairly easy by hand .... when you hold your tongue correctly, Even with Keiths rebuilt engine. or sniper running engine.

Mine is noticeably harder with the plugs in, but easy enough.

 

If your engine is tough to turn by hand .... could be rings .... I would bet 2 cents on sticky valves. .... Either way soaking the cylinders down with marvel mystery oil or other types of light oil would help. Or it may not if you have a serious problem, but it will not hurt.

Why I suggested above to pull the plugs, add some oil & turn it over with the starter til it does turn by hand.

 

Maybe set a goal, turn the engine over with the starter to get oil pressure showing on your gauge .... I would do that before I tried to start the engine anyways myself.

You might do that 2 or 3 times, add oil to the cylinders, then turn the engine over to get oil flowing .... This will help the bearings, where oil in the cylinders will not.

 

This will be a fair amount of turning the engine over, if it helps you should now be able to turn it over by hand.

 

After I got my engine running .... it sat for ~20 years ... I still soaked my cylinders 2 or 3 times afterwards.

[LeRoy]

4 hours ago, Sniper said:

I dunno, I could turn mine over by spinning the fan, with the lugs in,  But I also only have 50 psi, give or take, of compression.

 

I really don't think there is any way a socket and ratchet would fit on the crank bolt in my 51, the cross member is in the way.

That's not a lot of compression, does it run ok?

[Los_Control]

Mopar was way ahead of the curve, less compression requires less fuel 

[Sniper]

4 hours ago, LeRoy said:

That's not a lot of compression, does it run ok?

 

No issues, I think the problem is loose valve clearances more than anything else.  I am contemplating getting a leak down tester.

[Bryan G]

I've often envisioned the meeting, when they were designing our cars:

"Gentlemen, the roofline may be a bit lower this year, or perhaps a tad higher. Sam, you can throw on more chrome if you'd care to, or eliminate it altogether. Roy, on the windshield, one piece, two piece, heck-go three piece, as far as I care! But, my friends, if you expect to be working here for any length of time, let it be known: the lower tie bar shall fit not 1/4", nay, 1/8" further forward than absolutely necessary! I shall be watching, gentlemen, my ruler out the ready. That is all!"

[Happy 46R]

When it was me trying to turn my engine over I did exactly what Keith showed including loosening all the spark plugs to reduce compression. Re-reading your original question the only other answer I could think of "IF" your primary objective is to just spin the engine to TDC for timing purposes would be to get a really cheap 1 13/16" socket with a hexagonal shank where the ratchet fits. I would cut the socket so there was only a 1/4 inch of inside depth to it and then turn it with an open end wrench????? You could shave the ratchet end of the socket as well and weld a nut on the end of the socket also if needed. That is unless you are like me and can't weld! That would give you clearance and torque and save the trouble of removing rad saddle or inspection cover and let you see where the engine marks were as you actually turned the engine with the spark plugs loose. Just a thought!

[wagoneer]

9 hours ago, Happy 46R said:

When it was me trying to turn my engine over I did exactly what Keith showed including loosening all the spark plugs to reduce compression. Re-reading your original question the only other answer I could think of "IF" your primary objective is to just spin the engine to TDC for timing purposes would be to get a really cheap 1 13/16" socket with a hexagonal shank where the ratchet fits. I would cut the socket so there was only a 1/4 inch of inside depth to it and then turn it with an open end wrench????? You could shave the ratchet end of the socket as well and weld a nut on the end of the socket also if needed. That is unless you are like me and can't weld! That would give you clearance and torque and save the trouble of removing rad saddle or inspection cover and let you see where the engine marks were as you actually turned the engine with the spark plugs loose. Just a thought!

 

 

This was exactly my thought, but I couldn't find such a hex shanked socket. Also, sockets of that size are anything but cheap. Maybe the regular steel one might be cuttable with a metal saw, but the hardened one certainly won't cut. 

 

 But what I did come across that might do the trick is a 1 13/16 Crowfoot socket wrench. Stick an extension in there and a socket on the end should do the trick. Pricy devils though.