Optima battery suddenly too weak to crank on 48 DeSoto!

[LeRoy]

15 hours ago, keithb7 said:

I suggest you email the seller and ask him for an explanation.  If his answer is not satisfactory ask for a refund.  Please consider posting his response. I’m sure interested in hearing it. 
 

Going on my rant now…

 

OEM parts are high quality and fit perfectly for many reasons. The engineers designed and and tested their parts for fitment and reliability. The corporation’s reputation is on the line.  High quality parts cost more and are worth it. The parts fit right do what you expect them to do. 
 

Sending out OEM parts to the cheapest manufacturer to reproduce them won’t end well.  Selling parts under the premise that you are a knowledgeable expert may attract buyers at least once. A reputable seller should have controls in place to ensure quality and fitment for the consumer. A manufacturer of parts should at least have a designer/engineer on speed dial to monitor production, review and tweak products as needed. 
 

I try a and seek out good quality Mopar parts wherever I can. OEM new is the best. Good used is my 2nd choice. New aftermarket 3rd. The new aftermarket manufacturer should be reputable and strive to provide high quality parts. Constantly improving where needed. 

I avoid some sellers at all costs. Some will take your money and leave you cold. Some put lipstick on a pig and sell you boat anchor. Buyer beware. 

 

Since you brought it up.....

 

I've had horrible experience with rubber parts, primarily from AB. Most of the rubber I've bought from them had failed, in some cases repeatedly. 

 

I learned about AB at the beginning of my project and used them for 90% of my parts needs. The prices seem fair enough for a 75 year old car. The customer service has been very good, we had a bit of a rocky start but they stepped up in a big way.

 

They have sent me several sets of tie rod end boots, after no less than 5 full sets of their boots failing I switched to modern generic poly boots.

 

They sent u joint boots on 2 occasions (all failed quickly) swapping those without taking the joint apart is a pia, I got one from moparpro and it worked fine.

 

The back engine mounts are all cracked and I think they will fail well ahead of their time. They are still in place and I'm watching them. 

 

A few other small parts like hood bumpers and fire wall grommets are sketchy but aren't important in the grand scheme of things.

 

The front motor mount is fine (it does have metric threads).

 

The wheel cylinder kits seem like good quality but they were the wrong size so I don't know if they would have failed. The master cylinder rebuild kit is holding so far but my confidence had been shaken.

 

I need to replace all my window rubber, not sure where to go for those. I sure don't want them to fail right after installing them. 

 

I should be happy I can find any new parts for these old projects, we are lucky to have 3 or 4 suppliers in this business. That said, it sure stinks to pay a high price and spend the effort to install a part only to have it fail in short order. Calls to supplier for refund or replacement,  another wait for shipping, another disassembly and reassembly - ugh. All because of poor quality.

Edited January 9, 2023 by LeRoy

[Sniper]

Problem is you have 3 or4 VENDORS and one supplier.  So while you might hae a choice of whom to buy from but they all get their stock from the same source.

 

For engine and trans mounts, I think going with a revulcanising service might be the way to go.  Not cheap but it can't be worse, lol.

[LeRoy]

27 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Problem is you have 3 or4 VENDORS and one supplier.  So while you might hae a choice of whom to buy from but they all get their stock from the same source.

 

For engine and trans mounts, I think going with a revulcanising service might be the way to go.  Not cheap but it can't be worse, lol.

This is a week after install.

 

I think I paid about 45 bucks for the rubber parts, I dunno how long it'd take to swap them if good replacements are found, maybe 2-3 hours.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by LeRoy

[Kilgore47]

After 40 years that's got to feel really good.  I have a video from when I first got the 47 P15 stated.  I would attach it but the file is too large.  Had a smile on my face for days after that. 

[MarcDeSoto]

The motor mount "rubber" you buy today is not really rubber and does not duplicate NOS in function.  When I asked AB if you could push your finger into the rear motor mounts and make a 1/4" deflection, he said no.  If they are made in India like the ones I bought for $2 from Rock Auto, they are as hard as hard plastic, which is what I think they are made from.  Luckily for me, I found some real rubber ones I bought in the 80s that are supple and soft rubber.  Even as far back as the late 40s, MoPar warned against buying cheap, hard, after market motor mounts.  

[Marcel Backs]

I think I will be going to Steele Rubber Products since I was not too happy with some of the pieces I had already purchased elsewhere from supplier mentioned above. Just a personal observation, but I never really had quality problems with parts for the 39 Chevvy in my years of maintaining it. The parts that I bought for the D-14 restoration so far have had numerous quality issues (tie rod bushings for starters &&&). A repoop oil pump that could have ruined an expensive rebuilt motor has sent me on a boycott of these" purveyors of the questionable" and sourcing as many NOS ones as possible for the rest of the project. They are a little harder to get but well worth the wait and $ compared to the alternatives. The only way to correct the quality situation is to go elsewhere until the big suppliers get the message! M

[Sam Buchanan]

I doubt there is enough meat on the old Mopar bone for suppliers to spend the $$$’s on quality ……..

[MarcDeSoto]

Put the radiator back in.  Filled with water.  Primed the carburetor float bowl with fresh gas.  I have spark at the plugs.  The automatic choke is working.  But engine refuses to start now.  Only thing I can think of is maybe I flooded it.  Tried again to start it after 80 mins. but still no start.  

[MarcDeSoto]

The engine finally started again, but when it starts, it is at full throttle.  I'll have to figure out how to not have it at full throttle next time.  I believe there is an idle speed adjustment on the outside of the carb I can adjust, as well as the idle mixture screw.  

[Los_Control]

Do you have the gas pedal hooked up?

These carburetors are at full throttle at rest. you need the throttle spring to pull it to idle.

 

Totally backwards from a modern carburetor & dangerous when a throttle spring breaks .... just the way our Grandparents rolled  back in the day.

[Sniper]

5 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

just the way our Grandparents rolled  back in the day.

 

After fighting the Depression, Nazi's and the Japanese that didn't even phase them

[DonaldSmith]

Last Fall, after having the top off my carburetor, I assembled it wrong,  The link in the throttle linkage had flipped the wrong way, and the throttle could not return to idle.   Lemme find some pictures.   Ah, yes.

 

At the base is the other end of the throttle shaft. There's an arm to the left, with a wire loop link to the (dashpot?)  With the top off, the spring pushed the piston up, and he wire loop flipped over clockwise, so the lever kept the throttle shaft from idling down. 

 

[DonaldSmith]

How do I edit?  The loop flipped couhterclockwise as the lever went clockwise? so that the loop kept the lever and throttle shavt from going back to idle. 

[LeRoy]

1 minute ago, DonaldSmith said:

Last Fall, after having the top off my carburetor, I assembled it wrong,  The link in the throttle linkage had flipped the wrong way, and the throttle could not return to idle.   Lemme find some pictures.   Ah, yes.

 

At the base is the other end of the throttle shaft. There's an arm to the left, with a wire loop link to the (dashpot?)  With the top off, the spring pushed the piston up, and he wire loop flipped over clockwise, so the lever kept the throttle shaft from idling down. 

 

goodness, thats a pretty carb

[DonaldSmith]

Brand new rebuilt.

[MarcDeSoto]

I found out that the throttle shaft on my carb. was getting hung up on the side of the carb. body so the throttle couldn't close.  I fixed that.  But I continue to have a hard starting engine.  Today, I came to the conclusion that my spark plugs might be wet with oil.  I did do a wet compression test.  So I pulled the plugs and sure enough, they were wet with oil.  I put in a fresh, new set of Autolite plugs and I'm hoping the engine will start tomorrow.  I don't have a new fuel pump yet, so I will try to start it with some gas in the float chamber.  

[Marcel Backs]

Is the plug actually wet with oil or does it have sut built up on it? 2different situations and hopefully the latter. Best to find out what is fouling plugs prior to running the engine for any amount of time.

[MarcDeSoto]

They were unused plugs from the 40s, but they were wet from oil.  I already know what got oil on them.  I did a wet compression test and there was left over oil in the chamber when I put the plugs back in.  I started the engine today and it ran for about 30 seconds before running out of gas.  Can't wait to get the new fuel pump.  Now I wore the battery down from cranking, so I am charging up the battery.  

[Los_Control]

Seems we are always going in circles 

 

[sidevalvepete]

Treat yourself to one of these Marc. A trickle charger that can auto flip to maintenance charge when battery is fully recharged...sounds as though it would come in handy in your project...?

[MarcDeSoto]

They say a Noco Genius 10 can act as a trickle charger, but mine doesn't seem to work.  It shuts off after 5 minutes.  

[MarcDeSoto]

I got a new fuel pump today from AB.  This one's good.  I got the engine running pretty good.  A lot of smoke is coming out of the tailpipe, but I guess that's normal for an engine with a lot of oil in the cylinders.  Oil pressure is 40 lbs.  One thing that isn't working well is the accelerator.  When I start to accelerate the throttle, the engine starts to stall unless I close the throttle real quick.  I do see a squirt of gas when I pull the accelerator rod back when the engine is off.  Any ideas?  

[vintage6t]

Regarding the smoke, you should determine why and correct  that first.

1. White smoke - burning antifreeze.

2. Blue smoke - burning oil

3. Black sooty smoke - running too rich.

 

As far as acceleration, check all the basics.

1. Plugs are not fouled, see 3 above.

2. You have good spark on all cylinders, especially if only running on a battery. You should use a battery and a manual charger to run with to ensure a strong spark.

3. Make sure your point gap is correct.

4. Set your timing and then re-adjust your carb/idle.

5. Make sure you have no air leaks, carb base or intake manifold.

 

You can read your plugs as well to get some hint as to what the problem may be.

 

[LeRoy]

6 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

I do see a squirt of gas when I pull the accelerator rod back when the engine is off.

I find that the squirt needs to pretty robust.

 

My thought process would be something like this:

 

-With the engine not running does the stream spray against the opposite side of the throat and splash, even to the point of a little coming out the top of the carb? 

-Does the stream of gas start as soon as you move the throttle or is there a slight delay? The spring under the pump too strong? Spring on top too weak?

-Is the leather good and soaked in fuel, I've even smeared a little light grease on the raw side of the leather a few days before assembly to ensure its fat and fluffy.

-Is the acc pump body real smooth? I make a little reamer out of fine sandpaper and a piece of dowel mounted in a drill and hone the inside of the pump cylinder. Don't go wild just smooth things up a little.

-Are the little passages from the pump to the throat completely clean? I think the last one I cleaned up had 3 little passages that come into the throat, only 1 was passing fuel initially. Run lots of brake cleaner then compressed air through them.

-Are the jet and check ball in the bottom of the pump operating properly? If you mixed up the accelerator jet and the power valve jet you get a puny stream and a stumble off idle. The power valve gets the jet where the center poky (please excuse the use of techy lingo) sticks proud of the jet, the acc jet's poky thing is down inside the jet. 

Are you leaking a ton of air around the throttle shaft? If your shaft is loose you can kinda tune this out with the idle air needle while at idle but it causes a little stumble just off idle if its real leaky. 

 

That's a lotta ramble and may not even be related to your problem. Keep in mind that I don't know what I'm doing and you should take my advice with the appropriate caution.

 

(I ignored the smoke for the first 30/45 min of run time, lots of stuff to burn out)

[LeRoy]

16 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Seems we are always going in circles 

 

Like NASCAR!

 

                                                                                                                       do it for Dale