George Asche, Speed Parts , Measurable Performance and the work begins.

[Desert Rat]

Yeah, thanks for posting this. I have a George Asche intake (yet to be installed) on my 37' P4 coupe. There seemed to be some disagreements about intake heating and glad to hear people are doing just fine without some crazy heating mods. I happen to be looking for a set headers. @Semmerling, are you building these headers? I must have missed where they came from.

[Semmerling]

I am not building headers, I like you I'm trying to find appropriate sources and talking to people along the way. When I come up with a solution set of choices, I'll be sure and post it out.

 

As to the issues surrounding heating intakes, it is just one man's opinion to consider. 

 

Time to get back to work.

 

 

[Booger]

Ive had plenty o slant 6s. Please do not use of anything worthwhile. Just leave them in the Darts and Valiants were they belong

[Polsonator2]

In my '39 Plymouth I run the Langdon Fenton exhaust copy dual manifolds with the stock fuel pump and have no issues whatsoever.  I also run radiator coolant to the plate under my stock intake and no issues.  Have put over 50,000 miles on this set up in the last 6 years and no bogging year round, nothing.  Smooth freeway and city driving in my daily.  My climate here runs maybe 30 degrees F in winter and averages 65F- 80F in the summers (western Washington state around Seattle area).  I also run a single Weber 32/36 carb.    I also run 10% ethanol gas 87 octane on all fills.  I run average speeds of 55- 60 mph cruising the highways here 20 - 40 mile round trips a few times a week and a bunch of city driving.  I also fly up to 65 or 70 when needed.  Car is a daily driver and keeps up, merges, and accelerates with modern traffic too.  I think results that people achieve with these flathead 6's will vary depending on each individual's climate, build, and tune.  

 

Current motor specs with 10k miles put on in last year and setup mentioned:  late model '59 Plymouth 8:1 compression head, also shaved .030.  .060 overbore pistons, '51 Dodge 230.  Stock 3.9 rear end and '39 3 speed.  No overdrive.

 

Previous motor specs with 40k miles put on myself in 5 years with setup mentioned:  '50 Plymouth 218 std bore and '50 Plymouth head.  Stock 3.9 rear end and '39 3 speed.  No overdrive.  Retired this motor after wore out.  Do not know how many miles were on motor before I put my 40k on it.  Odometer said 22k when I bought the car.  Put the 230 in at 62k miles last year and it now has another 10k bringing my setup to 50k miles total in 6 years (odometer now says 72k)

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Polsonator2

[Semmerling]

That is impressive mileage and helpful for those that run the FENTONS. 

 

Can we see the proximity of the manifold to the fuel pump side of the block?  I've seen a good number of them and would like to see how you managed it all.

I would imagine that you have had no issues running the heater block. My early point is not about running it, its about not needing to run it. 

 

Look forward to the pics and much greatly appreciate your post

Edited July 27, 2022 by Semmerling

[Polsonator2]

Here are some pictures of what I did around my stock fuel pump to mimimize heat from the exhaust manifold that is pretty close.  Used the stock style heat shield (bent it up) and added header wrap to the exhaust pipe.  Fuel bowl does not boil and I don't have any issues even idling after a hot run on the freeway when my thermostat shows temps of 190 - 200.  Like I said this set up works for me but results may vary for others depending on their local climate, build, and tune, etc.

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Polsonator2

[Semmerling]

Thank you for the photos, they help a great deal.

That is pretty much what I have seen so far.

Glad to hear that it has been working so well for you. 

 

 

 

 

 

[normanpitkin]

my 41 chrysler with triple carbs ,only one hooked up to the fluid drive was needed ,headers and twin exhausts. Pretty quick up to 65 but then runs out of puff! Really needs an overdrive but im in England so thats tricky!

[Semmerling]

 

 

Here you go, thanks for the pic.

 

 

[Semmerling]

[Flat Track]

Hey Semmerling, what is the brand name or maker of the stainless looking header that you posted?  Or if someone else knows. Thanks

[Semmerling]

FT, 

Those headers are manufactured as requested by Red's Headers in California. These are not stainless as the bends required are too tight to be made with stainless, they are mild steel. What you see here have been coated by Jet Hot in their standard silver. I hope that helps. 

When you see them you will be struck by how beautifully they are rendered and how tiny they are. All flow and conflict issues with pumps etc are finished.

 

 

[Semmerling]

General update....

 

Work is well underway. 

What I am up to know is duplicating the stock Dodge DR throttle actuator that comes off of the cross-over firewall (Driver side to Passenger side) linkage and provides the actuation of the dual throttle linkage. The 1934 DR has a really nice design that allows for not only the foot accelerated to be delivered but the hand throttle from the dash as well. That hand throttle allows for setting the engine speed for warm up as well as a very early form of cruise control. 

In the original single carb set-up, the throttle pushes the carb mounted link UP....and the dual carbs require pulling DOWN.  Now most folks just take off the original throttle actuator and don't get to use the hand throttle. I want the exact same functionality so.......the new mounting plate will take the original throttle actuator and REVERSE the direction when it interfaces with the dual set up. Pics to follow, but for those that have never seen the 34 actuator....here it is on the single.



 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Semmerling

[Semmerling]

Full transmission rebuild is almost done. I was able to find  NOS parts of the 1934 free wheeling transmission and am in the middle of a full rebuild. 

 

And there. folks, is a real story. As some of you may be aware the free wheeling transmissions had some very interesting attributes, interesting enough that approximately 11 states outlawed their use and required that the freewheeling system be dismantled. Most systems were dismantled by removing the cable that ran from the FW vacuum system and manipulated the tranny side lever that controlled the FW Clutch Ring Fork. But there are any number of unusual approaches to stopping the FW system to work.

Here is one that stopped it cold.... but had impact! Weld the FW Clutch Ring to the FW Shell and Shaft! What is the impact? Harmonic vibration if you do a quick and dirty job and the nasty surprise of not being able to separate the TWO part Main Shaft, as the clip is UNDER the now welded FW Shaft housing. So the WHOLE stripped shaft is mounted up in a lathe and a cut is made right behind the welded bearing. We then can get to the clips, etc. strip the rest of the tranny and set about Fixing the FIX with unmolested/welded parts. No small feat as those parts are simply some of the rarest of all the Dodge transmissions parts. Oregon Bill kindly came to the rescue and everything I needed was made available. 

The end result will end up with totally NOS interior and the FH fork being restricted at the case exterior. 

  
 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Semmerling

[Sniper]

4 hours ago, Semmerling said:

Red's Headers

 

Link to the headers

 

 

[Semmerling]

He had a pencil in his shirt pocket so how could I say no...

[Flat Track]

Thank you for the info on the headers. Have fun with your project.

[greg g]

Some where in the down loads section is a hop up article from a late 50s or early 60s magazine detailing power gaines per modification, covering over boring, head milling, carb changes, headers etc.  It was submitted by Mark Duggan and should be searchable through his name.  Don Coatney posted a chart detailing compression ratio gains through head milling and block decking.  I performed several mods on my 56 230.  Factory hp was 125 at the flywheel at 3600 rpm  My engine on a chassis

Dyno pulled 127 rear wheel hp at 3300 rpm.  Gestimating flywheel hp would be in the 145 neighborhood.   Not even in most mini van ratings, but notable over the stock 97.

[Semmerling]

Greg, 

First, thanks for taking the time to direct me to downloads.

 

I searched every way I could and, unfortunately, nothing came up as you described. 

Under the a search for "Duggan" came 

 

"The best thing you can do for your engines performance is to boost the compression ratio.  This assumes the rest of the engine is in good working order.   .030 to .050 milled from the cylinder head will put your compression  ratio up a point and a half or so.  With this change you can also advance the timing a few degrees for better throttle  response.  You can also open up the intake and exhaust ports to match the gasket hole sizes.  The 201 is never going to be a neck snapper, but it can be made more lively through these inexpensive modifications." 

 

that you yourself wrote back in 2021.  I would agree with what you stated as a general rule. Having said that, where there are design limitations in a particular engine, more can be done. In the case of my engine model that would include the exhaust manifold (notoriously constrictive to the first two forward cylinders) and piston design and their rings. 

I have generally found that the search function at P-d is, well, disappointing.

"...This article was submitted by member Mark Duggan, if you can't find it you might contact him to see if he has it as a pdf file he might e mail. There is also a chart for all flat head sixes illustrating the compression ratio changes that occur through planing or milling cylinder hea..."    You again....NO CHART
 

"Give member Mark Duggan a shout or check his profile on this site. He started a face book page for 40s to 40s chryco convertibles. Don't know how.much traffic it gets but there may be some resources and info for convertible specific issues. Welcome, enjoy your ride." You again....NO CHART
 

"...Member Mark Duggan refreshed one a few years ago, he probably can steer you towards parts sources and maybe some tips and things to look out for." You again....NO CHART

"...Member Mark Duggan did a rebuild on the one in his p15 shoot him a private message, he can tell you how and what to look for. He found all his parts on line. Most 9f 5he faults are electrical. Although there can be issues with internals, the usually are wear rather than damage. In the download..." You again....NO CHART

In fact there are around 10 instances of you mentioning Duggan....and not one from him.

Might you have that article and would you please consider reposting it?  Thanks.

[Sniper]

10 hours ago, greg g said:

It was submitted by Mark Duggan

 

Found it, his user name is Mark D

 

 

[Semmerling]

Sniper, many thanks. 

 

Those are about what I would have expected and alluded to in the first entry of this thread. His results will undoubtably be proportionally better than what can be expected out of my engine model (1934 vs 1953.) As I just finished with a full rebuild it is about as good as it will ever get when I am done for a motor running on a single atmosphere and stock crank.

 

For those that just want to see the article and its four pages, I'll post the four pages as photos and reveal the final detail charts so kindly mentioned by Greg. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Semmerling

[Semmerling]

[Semmerling]

[Mark D]

4 hours ago, Semmerling said:

Greg, 

First, thanks for taking the time to direct me to downloads.

 

I searched every way I could and, unfortunately, nothing came up as you described. 

Under the a search for "Duggan" came 

 

"The best thing you can do for your engines performance is to boost the compression ratio.  This assumes the rest of the engine is in good working order.   .030 to .050 milled from the cylinder head will put your compression  ratio up a point and a half or so.  With this change you can also advance the timing a few degrees for better throttle  response.  You can also open up the intake and exhaust ports to match the gasket hole sizes.  The 201 is never going to be a neck snapper, but it can be made more lively through these inexpensive modifications." 

 

that you yourself wrote back in 2021.  I would agree with what you stated as a general rule. Having said that, where there are design limitations in a particular engine, more can be done. In the case of my engine model that would include the exhaust manifold (notoriously constrictive to the first two forward cylinders) and piston design and their rings. 

I have generally found that the search function at P-d is, well, disappointing.

"...This article was submitted by member Mark Duggan, if you can't find it you might contact him to see if he has it as a pdf file he might e mail. There is also a chart for all flat head sixes illustrating the compression ratio changes that occur through planing or milling cylinder hea..."    You again....NO CHART
 

"Give member Mark Duggan a shout or check his profile on this site. He started a face book page for 40s to 40s chryco convertibles. Don't know how.much traffic it gets but there may be some resources and info for convertible specific issues. Welcome, enjoy your ride." You again....NO CHART
 

"...Member Mark Duggan refreshed one a few years ago, he probably can steer you towards parts sources and maybe some tips and things to look out for." You again....NO CHART

"...Member Mark Duggan did a rebuild on the one in his p15 shoot him a private message, he can tell you how and what to look for. He found all his parts on line. Most 9f 5he faults are electrical. Although there can be issues with internals, the usually are wear rather than damage. In the download..." You again....NO CHART

In fact there are around 10 instances of you mentioning Duggan....and not one from him.

Might you have that article and would you please consider reposting it?  Thanks.

thats me, yeah I posted the article. Will dig it up for you. User name is “Mark D” by the way.

[FarmerJon]

@Semmerling, you have a beautiful car! I look forward to seeing your progress with hopping it up.

 

I am working on installing the same manifold on a postwar car, are you planning on adding vacuum ports anywhere on it for wipers, PCV or anything? If so, where are you thinking of drawing from?

Edited January 18, 2023 by FarmerJon