New to me a 1954 Dodge Mayfair flathead 6 in great shape. A few questions please about transmission and or oil change.

[gord]

Hello everybody.. New to this forum and the world of classic cars.  I just picked up this car yesterday and I have been researching details about my 1954 Dodge Mayfair car. I know this car has a three speed manual transmission but is it also Hy_drive and how do I tell? It seems confusing by reading that they all came with a three speed transmission but the hy-drive may have been an option?? I want to change the engine oil and it may include the torque convertor if I have the hy-drive. There is nothing on the steering column like the Plymouth models. Is there an easy way to tell yes or not?  Thanks for your time. 

Edited May 15, 2022 by gord
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[Los_Control]

I always thought the clippers were better then the Mayfairs .... or did I get that backwards?

 

[Bryan]

2 hours ago, gord said:

Hello everybody.. New to this forum and the world of classic cars.  I just picked up this car yesterday ....... I want to change the engine oil ...... Thanks for your time. 

Be careful about what oil you put in the engine.   If the previous owner was using non-detergent oil and you put normal detergent type oil in it, it could stir old sludge up and start it knocking.   That's what did mine in 30-40yrs ago.. flushing it and using regular oil.

[dpollo]

Hydrive uses engine oil in the torque converter which has a three speed transmission behind it. The transmission uses conventional gear oil but the engine and torque converter  uses 10 quarts or more and each must be drained separately but can be refilled from the engine.

 

I can only recommend you do more research to learn the procedure for changing oil and about Hydrive itself.

,   You could drain the engine only and refill but that leaves 5 quarts of dirty oil in the converter which will immediately mix.  Not a good idea.

   Usually Hydrive models had a gear lever indicator on the steering column to indicate Neutral.  Hydrives worked quite well and people enjoyed their merits but the fully automatic Powerflite would have been preferable to most.

 

By now you have probably figured out if you have Hydrive.  but if you have not figured it out, , Start the car, put it in gear,( any gear, High will do)  put your foot on the brake and release the clutch.  If the engine stalls, you have conventional drive.  If it continues to run, release the brake and push the throttle down. The car should drive away just as an automatic would.

Edited May 16, 2022 by dpollo
additional info

[Doug&Deb]

Is there an emblem anywhere on the car that says hy drive? Also I thought hy drive was the M6 trans with a torque converter. I agree with putting the car in gear and releasing the clutch. If you haven’t already I highly recommend getting a service manual. 

[gord]

Thanks Brian about the tip about oils.  Previous owner used Castrol 30 weight. 
 

Thanks dpollo/ Doug and Deb I will do the driving test to confirm yes or know to the Hy drive. There is no emblems anywhere on the car or steering column.  Car came with a shop manual but unfortunately only  goes until year 1952. I’ll have to try and locate one for this year if possible. I just bought a hoist too so I will be able to lift it up soon and pull the pan below the clutch or torque converter.  
 

Any tips for finding a year specific service manual.  Appreciate all the help everybody 

[Sam Buchanan]

There’s always eBay:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/321153882772

 

[9 foot box]

   There are a couple original Dodge car service manuals on eBay. D50 thru D53. The original loose leaf design has better picture quality than reprints. The Dodge service manual does not refer to the Hy-Drive, only Powerflyte. The Mayfair is called a Plodge because of the mixture of parts used. My P15 Plymouth service manual goes to 1954 and has Hy- Drive information in it. I would recommend buying both service manuals. Rick D.

[DonaldSmith]

If you look under the car (so you bought a hoist - now that's commitment) the Hy-Drive torque converter and clutch assembly takes up a good bit of space between the engine and the transmission,  more than a clutch-only bell housing.   

 

Post a photo to get verification from the assembled multitude here.  Your previous photo shows the oil pan, some bell housing?, and the crossmember that supports  the bell housing.  Guessing from that photo, i would bet no Hy-Drive, but what do I know. 

 

Added thought:  Look where the clutch fork goes into the bell housing.  If no Hy-drive, the fork is near the engine, since the clutch pushes against the flywheel bolted to the engine.  If there is a fluid coupling, the clutch fork is back farther, since the clutch pushes against a plate at the back of the fluid coupling.  

Edited May 16, 2022 by DonaldSmith
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[greg g]

Take a look at allpar.com use search word transmissions.  There is a good article describing the care and feeding of hydrives.  One give away on the later modele hydrives was a shift quadrant on the steering column.   Good luck and welcome.  The Canadian Dodges were rebadged and retried Plymouth bodies.  While you are on allpar, search exports for some interesting reading on various ways Chrysler Corp. handled different brands in different country's.  Somefolks refer to the Canadian cars as Plodges. 

[gord]

[gord]

Thanks everybody for your help on the type of transmission. I'm glad I joined this forum site. Its hard to know which site to join.   I finished installing my hoist today, put up the car, and pulled the bell housing lower pan. Its a manual not a Hydrive. There is no torque converter anywhere. My engine is a flathead 6 model D-49  

 

-Will the shop manual listed above for the 1954 D50-D53 work for my Canadian dodge car?

-I would like to pressure wash and degrease the engine, transmission area on my car as it is quite dirty. Suggestions area to stay away from.  I'm more concerned in the engine bay area.  

-This may be a hot topic for changing the oil, but specifically for my flathead 6 the owner was using the Castrol non detergent 30 weight. Should I stay with the 30 weight, go to a 10W30 detergent oil? Brian suggested above to be careful swathing to a detergent oil now unless one does a flush. An oil with some added Zinc??  This is going to be a n infrequent Sunday drive car only. 

 

[Doug&Deb]

I recommend staying with the 30W non detergent. 

[dpollo]

Detergent oils are meant to keep clean engines clean.   I think Doug and Deb are right unless you are prepared to pull the pan and have a good look.

 

to answer an earlier question (now a moot point)     Hydrive Cars have HYDRIVE written on the right side of the trunk lid,  and have a neutral indicator on the steering column.   There is, as I recall, a neutral safety switch on the transmission    and a special filler cap for engine oil with some instructions as to refilling after an oil change.

 

Canadian cars used the longer engine. Yours is a 228.  3 3/8 by 4 1/4.  When asking for service parts, always specify the 251 truck engine. Parts outlets have been issued American specs and would list a 230 for your car which  is different. The most obvious difference is that the cylinder head is 23 inches long.  Yours is 25.

Edited May 20, 2022 by dpollo

[Bryan]

Safest would be stick with the previous non-detergent oil.   A lot of work switching over with no guarantee you'd clan out all the sludge beforehand. I found sludge in the pan, in the oil pickup, in the valve tappet area, under the timing cover, etc.

[Sniper]

To flip the coin here, I just run 10w30 detergent oil.  No idea if I have a sludge issue anywhere.  Been 2+ years now without an issue.  I also run a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil to clean things out, so who knows.  As always, your mileage may vary and caveat emptor.