Head bolt schoolin

[Tired iron]

Hi all,

Just found this forum from over at HAMB and this place is just what I need!

 

I've got a 1950 Dodge Meadowbrook that I'm start to restore...well, maybe should say wake up first as it's been sitting for many years.

 

I took the head off cause I had 3 valves stuck and wanted to check status of cylinders etc. All looks pretty good and I got the valves unstuck, so I'd like to put a fresh head gasket on and put her back together for a comp test and run.

 

So regarding headbolts, can I reuse them or should I replace? And if I elect to replace, can I get away with grade 8s or do I need to go with ARPs? At this point I'm not wanting to put alot of money in it as I dont really even know what I've got here.

 

I guess I'd just rather reuse, but I get nervous about them breaking ( especially after seeing the broke deadbolt pull here!) , tho I did get them all out just fine.

[kencombs]

They have been reused since forever.  If you want to change them just because, buy the short ones for a small block Chevy V8.  Close to the original dimensions, plenty strong and cheap.

[Sniper]

As Ken said, they are reuseable as long as they are in good shape.  One use only headbolts are a relatively new thing for Mopar.  As for ARP's, you could go that route, way over kill.  I got a set of Pioneer head bolts for mine.  

 

One note on the stuck valves, I have tried a number of things but what I found that works for me is regular old brake fluid.  Just put some on the valve stem with a precision oiler, then using a plastic faced hammer I tap the vale seated, roll the engine over to push the ale back up.  Took me maybe 10 minutes of doing that to free up the last three ales I had stuck and nothing else worked.

[Bryan]

I just tipped the glass up and drank to take care of the last three ales I had..?

[tom'sB2B]

I like to use a thread chaser to clean the bolt holes to the point where I can easily screw it in and out with my fingers. I think it helps with not braking the bolts when tightening the head.

[Matt Wilson]

As mentioned, cleaning the threads in the block and on the bolts with a thread chaser is a good idea, and be sure to use thread sealant on any bolts that go into the water jacket (which might be all of them, but not sure). You might want to go ahead and use sealant on all the bolts, even the ones that don't go into the water jacket, just so you get uniform preload across all bolts.  Just don't use too much sealant or it can pool up in the bottom of the hole and crack the block when the end of the bolt gets forced down into that same space in the hole when torquing.

[keithb7]

Those bolts feel sorta skimpy when you are torquing them up. Is it 85 Ft lbs? I puckered up and winced as the wrench clicked. 

Maybe I’m just used to larger Caterpillar  hardware in my work environment. I don’t like re-using bolts that are stretched and effectively locked into place when elongated. I’m not sure that’s the process with these head bolts. However I have replaced them all with new, each time I have taken them out.  Sort of a best practice for me. I like to think “if in doubt throw it out” when it comes to certain parts. Head bolts fall into that category for me. 
 

BTW recently I did apply Permatex thread sealant to all head bolts. So I should be good. I think!

Edited November 25, 2021 by keithb7

[Tired iron]

And since you replace them, what kind do you use and where do you get them? Just standard grade 8s or specifically headbolts?

[Sniper]

Finding specific listings is getting expensive.  Moparmall has them for $90, seen them on Ebay for the same.

 

Here are the specs so you can find something else more reasonable.

 

21pcs

11/16 hex head

7/16 thread

2.875 U.H.L ( under head length )

3-3/16 O.A.L ( over all length )

 

A set of Pioneer PIONEER PG362 is slightly longer at 3.000 in.U.H.L but work.  $35 for a set of 25

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pio-pg-362-25

 

Pioneer S1018 for the washers. $9.00.

 

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/washers?fr=part-type&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=PIONEER S1018

[keithb7]

I went with Andy Burnbaum. Seen here. 
 

 

[Tired iron]

Thanks everybody for all the great information. I'll be on this site often as I work on the meadowbrook. 

Hope you all ate too much turkey!

[DJK]

21 hours ago, Tired iron said:

And since you replace them, what kind do you use and where do you get them? Just standard grade 8s or specifically headbolts?

I used Caterpillar bolts #1D4556 000, sealer on threads, film of grease on head of bolt, no washer, retorque after each of 3 heat cycles. 3k miles, no issues. I did reuse the 2 bolts with threads in the head for the ground and throttle return spring eyelet.

[Bryan]

On 11/25/2021 at 1:27 PM, Sniper said:

One note on the stuck valves, I have tried a number of things but what I found that works for me is regular old brake fluid.  Just put some on the valve stem with a precision oiler, then using a plastic faced hammer I tap the vale seated, roll the engine over to push the ale back up.  Took me maybe 10 minutes of doing that to free up the last three ales I had stuck and nothing else worked.

Reckon I'll try that on Thursday.  Doing something else tomorrow. I'll have to turn the adjuster back up and give it a go.  I have a long breaker bar on the large crank nut. It won't hurt the camshaft or anything?

[Sniper]

I need to get a new keyboard, my v key is flaky, lol

 

[kencombs]

On 11/25/2021 at 7:03 PM, keithb7 said:

I went with Andy Burnbaum. Seen here. 
 

 

Fitment charts are strange.  this one shows cars 33-59 and trucks 33-56 to be the same.  But for some reason truck 57-60 are different.  Same engine same bolts AFAIK.  But if one didn't know that and was looking for bolts for a 60 truck, they wouldn't have them here.

[Young Ed]

2 minutes ago, kencombs said:

Fitment charts are strange.  this one shows cars 33-59 and trucks 33-56 to be the same.  But for some reason truck 57-60 are different.  Same engine same bolts AFAIK.  But if one didn't know that and was looking for bolts for a 60 truck, they wouldn't have them here.

V8s were available then so perhaps that is the separation

Edited December 7, 2021 by Young Ed

[kencombs]

1 minute ago, Young Ed said:

V8s we're available then so perhaps that is the separation

But they were available earlier that that too, 54 up I think.  Wish I had one for my project!

[Young Ed]

20 minutes ago, kencombs said:

But they were available earlier that that too, 54 up I think.  Wish I had one for my project!

I know it's odd. Also I believe the 30s one came with studs instead

[Tired iron]

On 11/25/2021 at 3:17 PM, Sniper said:

Finding specific listings is getting expensive.  Moparmall has them for $90, seen them on Ebay for the same.

 

Here are the specs so you can find something else more reasonable.

 

21pcs

11/16 hex head

7/16 thread

2.875 U.H.L ( under head length )

3-3/16 O.A.L ( over all length )

 

A set of Pioneer PIONEER PG362 is slightly longer at 3.000 in.U.H.L but work.  $35 for a set of 25

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pio-pg-362-25

 

Pioneer S1018 for the washers. $9.00.

 

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/washers?fr=part-type&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=PIONEER S1018

I bought the twenty-five pack from summit racing. Super happy with them. Thanks for the tip.

[Bryan]

9 hours ago, Tired iron said:

I bought the twenty-five pack from summit racing. Super happy with them. Thanks for the tip.

With needing only 21, you can cut the heads off 4 and use them as guides to align the gasket and head..

[48jumpdoors]

On 12/8/2021 at 3:25 AM, Bryan said:

With needing only 21, you can cut the heads off 4 and use them as guides to align the gasket and head..

thats a great idea, I'll cut the heads off two of my old ones for head/gasket alignment thanks for the tip

[Sniper]

Might want to slot the end so you can use a screwdriver to uninstall them.

[48jumpdoors]

On 3/7/2022 at 6:10 AM, Sniper said:

Might want to slot the end so you can use a screwdriver to uninstall them.

did that as well, I am trying to find some info here about what to treat the FelPro head gasket #7564 C from Andy Bernbaum's. I believe from what it looks like, its a copper gasket. I have read hear to not use anything, to using a copper gasket compound such as K&M copper coat on one side or both sides?, so if anyone can point me in the right direction that would be much appreciated thank you.

[Sniper]

Here's the tech sheet from Felpro

 

 

CI599.pdf

[48jumpdoors]

1 hour ago, Sniper said:

Here's the tech sheet from Felpro

 

 

CI599.pdf 30.76 kB · 4 downloads

ah thanks Sniper, I didn't see your post for some reason. That clears it up for me.