Stuck valves

[Sniper]

Awhile back there was a tear down video posted that showed someone using vice grips to remove stuck valves.  I was unimpressed with that procedure as it pretty much requires new valves not to mention it makes a forensic analysis of the valves tough to do if they are all chingered up by vice grips.

 

So when I got my core 230 to build it I decided to find a good way to unstick the valves that would not render them useless in all but the most hack builds.  I tried a few things like penetrating oil, heat on the valve guides, cycling the valve up and down with a plastic faced hammer (down) and the cam (up).  It worked on three of the five stuck valves but the last two were recalcitrant.

 

So then I picked the brains of guys older than me and have BTDT.  I was given a possible solution.  This morning I implemented it.  Success, the last two valves now function as they are supposed to.

 

Brake fluid was the solution.  I used a precision oiler to put the fluid on the top of the guide and the valves stems.  I put brake fluid on the top and the bottom of the stems and rolled the engine over with a socket and ratchet.  When the tappet was fully seated I hit the open valve with a plastic faced hammer till it seated.  Took maybe 10 minutes of rolling the engine over, tapping the valves and adding more brake fluid.  

 

I no longer have any stuck valves and they go up and down as designed.  So, next time you have a stuck valve to deal with maybe this will help.

[maddmaxx1949]

Last donor engine I had i used a crowbar. Snapped the heads off three valves the engine was already fubar'd with a huge crack from freezing. But brake fluid would made my life a heckuva lot easier. You should've seen that valve take off across the shop. 

[wagoneer]

9 hours ago, Sniper said:

Awhile back there was a tear down video posted that showed someone using vice grips to remove stuck valves.  I was unimpressed with that procedure as it pretty much requires new valves not to mention it makes a forensic analysis of the valves tough to do if they are all chingered up by vice grips.

 

So when I got my core 230 to build it I decided to find a good way to unstick the valves that would not render them useless in all but the most hack builds.  I tried a few things like penetrating oil, heat on the valve guides, cycling the valve up and down with a plastic faced hammer (down) and the cam (up).  It worked on three of the five stuck valves but the last two were recalcitrant.

 

So then I picked the brains of guys older than me and have BTDT.  I was given a possible solution.  This morning I implemented it.  Success, the last two valves now function as they are supposed to.

 

Brake fluid was the solution.  I used a precision oiler to put the fluid on the top of the guide and the valves stems.  I put brake fluid on the top and the bottom of the stems and rolled the engine over with a socket and ratchet.  When the tappet was fully seated I hit the open valve with a plastic faced hammer till it seated.  Took maybe 10 minutes of rolling the engine over, tapping the valves and adding more brake fluid.  

 

I no longer have any stuck valves and they go up and down as designed.  So, next time you have a stuck valve to deal with maybe this will help.

 

 

 

Brilliant! I'm dealing with my own stuck valves at the moment; Mine are soaking in MMF at the moment. Brake fluid sounds brilliant because it's such a caustic agent against *everything* like paint, our skin, and probably the gunk gumming up our valves. 

 

I like it better than torching the valves, freezing the valves, or even beating on them with a hammer. Gentle taps on the ones that are stuck with a dead blow, or small rubber/plastic mallet while the tappets are on the low spots sounds like a better way to preserve an engine.

 

This probably works much better for an engine rebuild than an in-place engine where the brake fluid will mix into the oil pan and then throughout the engine. Thoughts on effects of brake fluid in the oil? Corroding seals or other components like the oil pump/pressure relief valve maybe?

 

Also... took me about 10 minutes to realize BTDT stood for "been there, done that". 

Edited July 22, 2021 by wagoneer

[Dan Hiebert]

Thanks, good info.  Wish I'd known about the brake fluid solution when I was freeing up the valves on our Terraplane.  I can see how that could work better than using Marvel Mystery Oil.  Which is what I used when I did the "Whack-a-Mole" method to free them up.  (The car then ran OK for the 12 years it took for me to get around to replacing the valves and guides.)

[DJK]

Have added brake fluid to leaky P/S systems, helps swell seals to stop leaks.

[Sniper]

Never thought about how brake fluid might affect the seals, but since none of them are rubber in most of our engines, except maybe the rear main seal in some, I am not sure it would be an issue.  I guess an oil change right after the valve work would take care of most of it.  Heck, I'd be more worried about valve grinding compound myself.

[moparfun]

Great information, and as usual it comes after I took all the valves out of the 54 Plaza I'm currently working on, it had been sitting for about 10 years and had 5 stuck valves. Again great info I'll keep it in my back pocket for future projects

[Sniper]

An update, I rolled the engine over for the first time since I did the brake fluid trick today.

 

I am happy to report the valves are still unstuck.

[joecoozie]

I had a stuck valve and piston recently and I tried everything - MMO, ATF/ACETONE/KROIL/PB BLASTER/WD40.....I even tried a large wrench on the crank nut. Wouldn't budge.......

What worked for me was white vinegar with a touch of MMO for lubrication. When I filled the plug hole with it the next day I could see air bubbles all around the perimeter of the spark plug hole.

The day after I rigged up an adapter for the plug hole and connected my air compressor to it and put 90 LBS of pressure into the cylinder. It was still holding the air (bad) a couple of days later. So I jacked up the "drive" wheel and put the car into second gear then went and jiggled the wheel back and forth. After a few jiggles - I heard hissing (good) coming from the plug hole and the engine turned a 1/4 turn (had the fan blade marked and it moved).Also, freed up the valve

[Los_Control]

Yeah valves do stick on these engines. ... first one was Molly my post on her "ran when parked"  In the 1970's.

 

I ran a compression check and 1 cyl had 25 psi. The rest had zero.

When removed the head it was very simple to free up the stuck valves. #6 for some reason was stubborn. Could push it down by hand, it just did not go down by itself.

Life happens and I was at this point when we bought our house 1200 miles away.  Sure the rings would need oil ... just a thing for these older engines.

 

Point is, yeah I could roll the engine over, the valves would stay open and could push them down by hand ... oil and they did free up ... accept 1.

We also know the rings were stuck, we need lots of oil to free this engine up. Even if you do not want to rebuild the engine, you kinda need the rings expanded for use.

 

I just thought this video was fun because they showed why & how they pulled it to get it started.

We hear funny stories in the past how they would drag cars around to start them. Here is a good example of stuck rings & valves.

 

 

[Sniper]

Update, seems I am a slacker and still have not got my core 230 stripped all the way down and to the machine shop, lol.  But I rolled it over today and the valves are till unstuck.

[Bryan]

6 hours ago, Sniper said:

Update, seems I am a slacker and still have not got my core 230 stripped all the way down and to the machine shop, lol.  But I rolled it over today and the valves are till unstuck.

On mine it seems like grease is gone but still rust in the water passages.  Considering the DIY electrolysis method in a large plastic container with a charger, or soaking it in some slight acid solution (vinegar, radiator flush, etc). Are you sending it off for cleaning or machine work?

[Sniper]

Cleaning, then measurements and magnafluxing, depending on that we will see it'll direct where we go.  It'll likely be real clean before it goes there and I'll probably measure it all out myself anyway, but I am a belt and suspenders type, lol.

[wagoneer]

Today this post became very useful! My b2b has been sitting for 3 years awaiting my time. I took off the head and inspected the valves, and found that piston 5 exhaust valve was stuck open but would pop down with a tap of the rubber mallet. After soaking with PB Blaster for a while, and not getting anywhere, I found this thread again (where I had posted even!). I funneled in brake fluid and let it soak in for a few hours with some improvement.  It was only stuck on a small portion of the valve anyway, so I thought to also scrub it with a whittled down toothbrush around the valve stem both from above AND from below when the valve was tapped down. I put a shop vac hose on top of the valve to suck up any debris, and after a few rotations and taps... SUCCESS! 

 

#5 Exhaust now follows the OTTO cycle as it should!!

[wagoneer]

On 9/26/2021 at 6:39 PM, Los_Control said:

Yeah valves do stick on these engines. ... first one was Molly my post on her "ran when parked"  In the 1970's.

 

I ran a compression check and 1 cyl had 25 psi. The rest had zero.

When removed the head it was very simple to free up the stuck valves. #6 for some reason was stubborn. Could push it down by hand, it just did not go down by itself.

Life happens and I was at this point when we bought our house 1200 miles away.  Sure the rings would need oil ... just a thing for these older engines.

 

Point is, yeah I could roll the engine over, the valves would stay open and could push them down by hand ... oil and they did free up ... accept 1.

We also know the rings were stuck, we need lots of oil to free this engine up. Even if you do not want to rebuild the engine, you kinda need the rings expanded for use.

 

I just thought this video was fun because they showed why & how they pulled it to get it started.

We hear funny stories in the past how they would drag cars around to start them. Here is a good example of stuck rings & valves.

 

 

 

this video is amazing! He really shows well the struggles we go through in a very relatable vehicle to ours.

 

 

it occurred to me though while I was going through my own stuck valve issue - why bother going through weeks of trouble for a valve when it’s easy enough (using the right set of compressors) to just remove them and give them a good physical scrub ? 
 

sometimes they are set in through a bit of age and loosened them up with fluids is a great start - but wouldn’t also be the answer to just take out the problematic valve and clean it up, put it back in?

 

 

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, wagoneer said:

sometimes they are set in through a bit of age and loosened them up with fluids is a great start - but wouldn’t also be the answer to just take out the problematic valve and clean it up, put it back in?

What you say is true .... same time if you can do it with fluids, is a lot easier ...

 

I've only owned 2 of these engines .... The worse one had 5 cylinders with zero compression. After pulling the head I had all the valves working smoothly except cylinder 6.

Literally took a 1/2 hour or so after the head was removed. #6 the valves moved freely, just a little sticky and the springs were not enough to pull it back down .... you could push it with your finger down.

That truck I never really had enough time to work on it and ended up giving it away because was moving out of state .....

If I worked on it a little bit more, could have gotten them working easily .... even if I put it back together and ran it on 5 cylinders .... With heat and continuous rotation the valves would have came back to operational ......

 

Will the valves actual seat and seal? that is a different question.