Replacing Timing Cover Seal; 218, P15

[Sam Buchanan]

After putting off this job for several months because I'm enjoying the '48 so much, I decided it was time to address the oil leak that keeps the bottom of the engine and tranny wet. Before wasting a bunch of time figuring things out I wish to draw on the experience of those who have already done this repair.

 

Horns and radiator are out and I have jacked up the engine and removed the engine support, rubber mount, and harmonic balancer bolts. The crank pulley bolt measures 1 13/16". Does this sound right? I'll need to buy this socket.

 

How tight is this bolt going to be? Can I put the engine in 3rd gear and use the parking brake so the bolt can be loosened? 

 

Is the balancer captured under the crank hub bolt?

 

Is the balancer keyed to the pulley, or are the bolts asymmetrical? I applied a couple of paint dots in case they need to be clocked later.

 

Is the hub keyed to the crank or do I need to carefully set the crank to TDC before removal?

 

Thanks in advance for any insight, I've found asking questions in advance can often help me beat the book flat-rate.    ?

 

P.S. As others have stated, I had to adjust the holes in the engine support to get the new mount to fit. Also had to shorten the studs on the lower side so the support and mount can be reinstalled. Simple mods but another case of aftermarket stuff being just a wee bit off......

Edited December 30, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[Tooljunkie]

In waiting for my seal and gasket set to arrive, so i can address the same issue. Mine dies not have a balancer, big bolt and a pulley with 2 threaded holes. With a harmonic balancer puller you remove pulley By pulling with bolts in threaded holes. Then the cover bolts and lastly the cover. Knock out old seal and drive in the new one. I glue gasket to cover,grease block side of gasket and loosely install cover. Push balancer/pulley on so seal will be centered and snug a few timing cover bolts, pull pulley off and finish snugging cover. Re-install pulley and tighten crank bolt. That should cover it.

[Andydodge]

If you've ordered the seal I'd also almost bank on getting a speedie sleeve at the same time as old seal will have invariably worn a groove into the hub....also if you are using a leather seal soak it overnight in oil before installing...............andyd

[Sam Buchanan]

Thank you for the feedback. I got the bolt out with a 24" breaker bar by holding the crank with the parking brake.....will work on pulling the pulley tomorrow.

[Sniper]

the easiest way to remove the balancer bolt is to use the starter. 

 

[Sam Buchanan]

3 minutes ago, Sniper said:

the easiest way to remove the balancer bolt is to use the starter. 

 

 

Uhhhhhh........give it a try and let us know how it works.

[Tooljunkie]

Think it works on toyotas, some engines turn in  the loosey direction. Im not doing it. But i own real tools. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Tooljunkie

[Sniper]

Do it every time I need to pop the balancer bolt loose.  Works like a charm.  Every engine I have ever worked on turns the same direction.  If the balancer turns clockwise while you are looking at it then this will work.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Sniper

[Dodgeb4ya]

Well you got it off using the starter.

How do you tighten the bolt back up tight..?

I guess you reverse the battery cables?

[Sniper]

With a torque wrench.

 

Not sure I appreciate the snotty attitude you have going on. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

 

I'm sorry that my question up set you.

 

 

[Sam Buchanan]

I'n updating this thread for the sake of the archives.

 

I think this engine mount is what our British friends would call "perished":

 

 

 

Here is the generic puller that quickly took the hub off the crank:

 

 

 

Here is the infamous groove that is often referred to when we are replacing pulley hub and rear pinion seals. This is caused over time by the lip of the seal riding on the journal. My engine had a neoprene seal most likely because the engine was overhauled in 1987, but the old leather seal may have cut the groove.

 

 

 

The surface crack is most likely due to corrosion, it doesn't appear to be very deep. I plan on using this hub after a speedy-sleeve is installed on it.

 

The groove and a mis-installed seal were the reasons for the oil leak. Because the timing cover gasket was glued to the engine block and the old seal had part of the lip rolled inside-out I suspect the cover was torqued down before the hub was attached to the crank to properly align the cover.

 

Here is the harmonic balancer with perished rubber:

 

 

 

What should I do?

 

1) Not bother with re-installing the balancer?

2) Get this one overhauled?

 

Lots of threads in the archives indicate the balancer was used intermittently in production and the elimination of the balancer has no ill effects. If the balancer is deleted I'll need to mark the pulley with TDC for timing purposes.

 

I have an email on the way to The Damper Doctor for a quote on overhauling this balancer. I'm open to suggestions.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

ah..you mean......knackered…..

[Sam Buchanan]

I was gobsmacked when I saw the mount.......

 

Ready to put stuff back together once I decide what to do with balancer and the speed-sleeve arrives.

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[Dodgeb4ya]

That damper is the same on all 1946-50 Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler engines that use the damper,hub and separate pulley...six and eight..two flats opposite sides...usually they are good.

Someone here might have one or online MoPar sources..

 

Might try ..

Neil Riddle..seaplym@hotmail.com

He has a lot of old MoPar and is very reasonable.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Dodgeb4ya

[Sam Buchanan]

3 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

That damper is the same on all 1946-50 Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler engines...six and eight..two flats opposite sides...usually they are good.

Someone here might have one or online MoPar sources..

 

Might try ..

Neil Riddle..seaplym@hotmail.com

He has a lot of old MoPar and is very reasonable.

 

Thank you!

 

Do you see any need to replace the one I have? It seems to still be well bonded....just looks ugly.

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[Sam Buchanan]

Got out the calipers and  worked through the Speedi-Sleeve tables and ordered a 99218 via Amazon, $35.

 

Dia: 2.186-2.192

 

Their tech paper recommends an epoxy filler in deep grooves (think mine qualifies....) and install the sleeve before the filler sets. I intend to us JB Weld.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[Dodgeb4ya]

I think if it was mine I'd run it....I have seen them way worse than yours that never came apart...if the timing marks are way out of sync..cannot align the timing marks..gotta change it quick.?

[Sam Buchanan]

18 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

I think if it was mine I'd run it....I have seen them way worse than yours that never came apart...if the timing marks are way out of sync..cannot align the timing marks..gotta change it quick.?

 

Early on I checked the marks @ TDC via the threaded hole in the head at #6 cylinder, they are still spot on. I will use the balancer....thank you very much for the experienced feedback.

 

Happy New Year......may we be healthy with many beautiful days to drive our old cars!

Edited January 1, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[Dodgeb4ya]

Great....keep on going and get er done!

Happy New Year too!  ?

[maok]

3 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

ah..you mean......knackered…..

He means....buggered

[Los_Control]

11 minutes ago, maok said:

He means....buggered

I once got knackered, buggered is a mess for sure

 

[Tooljunkie]

My new motor mount arrived in the mail,$48.00 with tax and shipping. 
pretty good i think. 
i have all the front sheet metal off, will be pulling rad and cradle so it will be easy to get at. 

[Bbdakota]

Sam, I respect the fact you don't shy away from diving into anything needing to be done on your car!

Of course, if you're anything like me, you enjoy tinkering and improving your car.

[Sam Buchanan]

2 hours ago, Bbdakota said:

Sam, I respect the fact you don't shy away from diving into anything needing to be done on your car!

Of course, if you're anything like me, you enjoy tinkering and improving your car.

 

Scott, I do enjoy working on the car (most of the time....) knowing each task completed gets it a little closer to what it was in its youth. It also helps to be a bit hardheaded....