318 Maybe

[Plymouthy Adams]

none is rocket science...maybe a tad of applied...but you not trying to escape earths gravity...many would have you think this is stuff is hard...it is just a simple step by step process.....not as much like wood carving where you want to carve a duck by grabbing a piece of wood and cutting away anything that does not look like a duck...both of these require you knowing what the end results are supposed to be...

[59bisquik]

Just my 2 cents on your project... the 54+ came with a V8 option so there is room without cutting the firewall and the steering box has plenty of clearance. An aluminum radiator for a stock V8 can be found on ebay and mounts a couple inches forward of the stock L6 radiator. I used a stock bell housing and tranny, so it all bolted up in the back, just needed to make motor mounts up front. Take a look at my 55 C1B build for more info and pics.

[bambamshere]

Ok so I have been trying to look at the pictures on this site but for some reason I can't. They are the ones from photo bucket they are blurry.

[JBNeal]

in short, photobucket is holding our pics hostage...when we posted the pics, photobucket was a free service, but back in 2017, they opted to restrict usage with a mulit-tiered account package setup, requiring account users to pay for the very service that had been free for well over a decade...there are a LOT of ppl not happy with this, but they appear to be holding firm on their pricing structure and bandwidth limitations...it's a real drag 

[bambamshere]

Well that kind of blows. I don't think this is the only site either. I was on another site today and it was same thing

[JBNeal]

oh yeah, doing research on The HAMB is about useless now, a big chunk of that site looks like it's been vandalized and/or looted...LOTS of information that's just locked away until ppl knuckle under and let photobucket plant its hands in users' pockets to fulfill their revenue stream requirements...it's a durn shame...

[bambamshere]

I think thats where I was today. I know I had to go to photo bucket and then to the site and had to kind of follow along with the picture.

[Radarsonwheels]

My input- I butchered my 54 for a v8 but what I got was around a 500% increase in horsepower and 300% torque, so a lot of other stuff had to change to support that. I loved my healthy 230, especially with a 3.55 rear, front disc brakes, and later a t5 five on the floor transmission. My steering sucked and my body was rotting from the bottom up. My hotrod grew from wanting to build a stroker big block, then needing somewhere to put it.

 

If you have your heart set on the 318 it’s very do-able. Mark your chassis for where the radiator sits. Pull your doghouse and driveline. Crib up the motor where you think it should go and make mounts plus make a crossmember for the trans. Then its just a ton of day long projects- exhaust, kickdown linkage, driveshaft, new radiator probably pushed forward some, new axle,  parking brake cables, bla bla bla. 

 

It is a lot to do but not too bad. You just have to keep plugging away at it.

 

radar

 

 

[bambamshere]

1 minute ago, Radarsonwheels said:

My input- I butchered my 54 for a v8 but what I got was around a 500% increase in horsepower and 300% torque, so a lot of other stuff had to change to support that. I loved my healthy 230, especially with a 3.55 rear, front disc brakes, and later a t5 five on the floor transmission. My steering sucked and my body was rotting from the bottom up. My hotrod grew from wanting to build a stroker big block, then needing somewhere to put it.

 

If you have your heart set on the 318 it’s very do-able. Mark your chassis for where the radiator sits. Pull your doghouse and driveline. Crib up the motor where you think it should go and make mounts plus make a crossmember for the trans. Then its just a ton of day long projects- exhaust, kickdown linkage, driveshaft, new radiator probably pushed forward some, new axle,  parking brake cables, bla bla bla. 

 

It is a lot to do but not too bad. You just have to keep plugging away at it.

 

radar

 

 

 

Thank you I wasn't quite sure if I was going to go the early Hemi motor mount route. There is someone that did that. I suppose I can also buy this  https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tmf-109502/overview/year/1956  I wrote tin man today and they said I could possibly use these 

[Tooljunkie]

Kind of irrelevant but not really.

when i did a big block swap in a 59 regent,i used a full size truck as a donor for the swap. 
e-brake was now in the rear axle,some universal cables got that working. Moved the perches to fit the car springs. 
I cut whatever i needed off old frame to get the mounts. 
same for transmission. I built what was needed. 
the trick is centering, rear diff is offset, engine needed to be offset in engine bay to match driveline angles. Its not much, but will prevent driveline vibration. 
 

be prepared to remove/install engine several times, i think for me it was 4 times. 
at that time i retrofitted power

steering And floor shift for   transmission. 
all parts were modified to fit the car.  
 

its do-able,welding is a must. 
it took me a total of 5 weeks start to finish,and the end result was worth it. 
 

the 218 in my fargo will stay put as long as it keeps breathing, but if a con rod plays peek-a-boo i wouldnt think twice about a 318/904 swap. 
was the original plan, but the seized engine did come back to life, and runs suprisingly nice. 

[wayfarer]

22 hours ago, bambamshere said:

Does anyone know if the 318 LA and the 354 Hemi had the same Motor mounts? Some people say they do.

MaMopar liked to muck about and change small stuff to screw with us. The ears on the blocks are one of those items.

Although they are not 100%,  they are very similar and usually not difficult to make them work.  

Word of caution. MaMopar used three seperate bolts in the mounts, be sure you do also.

[bambamshere]

Does anyone know on a 318 La if the water pump pulley and the crank pulley are almost supposed to touch. I mean they look like they might be half a inch apart. or should there be a smaller pulley on it. 

 

I have looked around and can't find the answer. I know there is different sizes but thought I would ask here.  

[Radarsonwheels]

2 hours ago, bambamshere said:

Does anyone know on a 318 La if the water pump pulley and the crank pulley are almost supposed to touch. I mean they look like they might be half a inch apart. or should there be a smaller pulley on it. 

 

I have looked around and can't find the answer. I know there is different sizes but thought I would ask here.  

Yup normal. I have mix n matched them badly before and had them throw sparks! Usually the belt will triangulate with the ps pump or alternator. 

 

Sometimes you need to shim them into alignment too. Then you cross your fingers that the speeds will all play nice which they usually will. 

 

You can get under & overdrive pulleys from March but they are expensive and will work but aren’t always designed for a low rpm daily driver. 

 

Of course the best is a matching set from a donor but it’s not that crucial- the accessories can mostly operate in a large range of rpms

[Tooljunkie]

I dont know whats on my 318 in the quonset,if i remember i will take a picture today. 
if i was more organized i would have a pile of pulleys in one place. 
next summer im stripping an a-body, and the k-member is complete with mounts.

could always cut the cross member out of one of my 70’s donor trucks too. 

[Tooljunkie]

As promised. This is a 75 318 w/power steering. Another goofy picture,but there is almost no room between the 2. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Tooljunkie

[Plymouthy Adams]

in circumstances like this, any miss is as good as a mile.....lol  Given some of the very applications of this engine by design, one can easily call to mind the installation in a B Series van, there was a very drive at the engineering level to keep this footprint as compact as possible.  Soldier forward....don't reinvent the wheel, just keep them turning.

[bambamshere]

10 hours ago, Radarsonwheels said:

Yup normal. I have mix n matched them badly before and had them throw sparks! Usually the belt will triangulate with the ps pump or alternator. 

 

Sometimes you need to shim them into alignment too. Then you cross your fingers that the speeds will all play nice which they usually will. 

 

You can get under & overdrive pulleys from March but they are expensive and will work but aren’t always designed for a low rpm daily driver. 

 

Of course the best is a matching set from a donor but it’s not that crucial- the accessories can mostly operate in a large range of rpms

I have the original pulleys I think. Buddy of mine sold the engine to me and I wasn't sure. He took the Alternator and Starter because he needed them for a 440 I guess and didn't tell me till engine got to my place. So I was wondering about the pulleys. 

[55 Fargo]

On 12/11/2019 at 11:57 AM, bambamshere said:

 

 

The 904 is a automatic transmission. Not sure if I would want to put it in there. I was told by someone on here couple years back I have a T98 manual transmission in my truck. But the only thing I have found on that is it was used in Fords and Jeeps. 

The Canuck T98 Acme in Dodge Fargo and M37s. Many were installed at factory in Canada only.

Ive had at least 4 of these. 

They share innards with Ford and Jeep versions. Are bullet proof and have Pros.

On the LA 318 great choice, add cam headers and 4bbl and nice punch.

The  C series trucks came with V8s and the frames are different as well as steering box placements.

On A904 great trans but no OD if that's your ticket. 

Perhaps a more modern Torqueflite IS trans?

Or an A833 with bell for the LA series engines.

Good luck on the swap.

Edited December 20, 2019 by 55 Fargo

[bambamshere]

21 minutes ago, 55 Fargo said:

The Canuck T98 Acme in Dodge Fargo and M37s. Many were installed at factory.

Ive had at least 4 of these. 

They share innards with Ford and Jeep versions. Are bullet proof and have Pros.

On the LA 318 great choice, add cam headers and 4bbl and nice punch.

The  C series trucks came with V8s and the frames are different as well as steering box placements.

On A904 great trans but no OD if that's your ticket. 

Perhaps a more modern Torqueflite IS trans?

Or an A833 with bell for the LA series engines.

Good luck on the swap.

 

 

Hey there 55 Fargo. Are you saying the frames for the v8 version of the trucks were different then the Flathead 6s and the Steering boxes location 

[55 Fargo]

32 minutes ago, bambamshere said:

 

 

Hey there 55 Fargo. Are you saying the frames for the v8 version of the trucks were different then the Flathead 6s and the Steering boxes location 

The C series frames are different than B period.

The reason is they introduced the V8 into the more modern C series.

Look at pics of a B series frame up front and steering box location compared to the C series.

Makes no difference with the C series truck lineup whether equipped with 6 or V8. The frames changed for the new C series.

Edited December 20, 2019 by 55 Fargo

[bambamshere]

14 minutes ago, 55 Fargo said:

The C series frames are different than B period.

The reason is they introduced the V8 into the more modern C series.

Look at pics of a B series frame up front and steering box location compared to the C series.

Makes no difference with the V8s whether equipped with 6 or V8.

 

Ok never really thought of it. I actually had to look on line to see when the c series truck came out.

 

Anyways so I will still need to make motor mounts for frame right. I have noticed there is a few holes on top of this frame not sure if those were put there for some reason. 

[59bisquik]

If you were using an old poly V8 or hemi and were lucky enough to find the front engine mount that was similar in style to the L6 version, it would be a bolt in affair. But in your case, you will need to make engine mounts for the 318.

[bambamshere]

Oh ok thank you. Now I have seen the engine sitting between the frame and have seen them on top. What would you all think be better. Between frame or on top like the flathead. 

[kencombs]

IMO, as low as you can get it.  Big chunk of cast iron has a huge impact on center of gravity and handling. Usually the deciding factors are firewall to converter/clutch housing and pan to steering parts clearance, and crossmembers of course.

 

Even stock the flathead six crank is not over the frame, it is mid frame.

37 minutes ago, bambamshere said:

Oh ok thank you. Now I have seen the engine sitting between the frame and have seen them on top. What would you all think be better. Between frame or on top like the flathead. 

 

[Radarsonwheels]

45 minutes ago, bambamshere said:

Oh ok thank you. Now I have seen the engine sitting between the frame and have seen them on top. What would you all think be better. Between frame or on top like the flathead. 

 

Ideally you want it as low and far back as practically possible.

 

In reality you will have to deal with clearance issues on all sides. Is your steering still stock? Front suspension? You need the oil pan to clear these things and allow suspension travel and not hit the steering link. You can change the shape of the pan and pickup by welding in whatever sump you want but that’s normal for a race shop not a backyard swap. More likely is swapping in a rear sump or whatever is necessary if it has a car sump currently.

 

The exhaust outlets need to be at least aimed at an area open enough to make a free flowing curve in the downpipe- the more open the better. If the manifold aims at the edge of the frame you can notch and reinforce it but again not a novice job. 

 

Also you want enough room to put a stock fan on the water pump pulley that sits 1/2 deep into the radiator shroud. You might have to move the rad closer to the grille or use an electric fan. I used a replacement HHR fan for a chevy- those trucks had a small grille opening and needed a powerful fan. They are way less than $100 on rockauto and come with a shroud that’s easy to adapt.

 

Make sure the motor has room to vibrate and move around a little and won’t be buzzing up against stuff.

 

It’s tight front to back and possibly between the frame steering and exhaust too. It’s not as tight up toward the top of the hood which is a generous bubble. Also think about sparkplug exhaust and bellhousing tool access, and don’t forget that the distributor is in the back by the firewall.

 

good luck!

Rdr

Edited December 20, 2019 by Radarsonwheels