51 B3B build thread - after all these years

[bkahler]

I wanted to check the head bolts one more time and see if I could get the generator to start charging so I pulled the truck out onto the driveway and let it warm up again.  This also allowed me to see how well the new throttle linkage was going to work.  

 

There was zero movement on the head bolts when I torqued them.  I used Merle's method of not backing them off before torqueing.

 

Great success on the throttle linkage but zero luck on getting the generator to charge.  I had an electronic conversion done to the regulator so I don't know if the problem is the regulator, my wiring or the freshly rebuilt generator.  I did short the battery to field connection on the regulator and it didn't change anything.  I have a spare NOS regulator that I will put on the truck to see if that makes any difference.

 

After balancing the carburetors again (due to linkage change) the engine now idles at about 520 rpm and is fairly smooth.  There is an ever so slight (+- 5 to 10 rpm) variation in the idle speed but it's hardly noticeable.  Response seems to be immediate when I press on the gas pedal which makes me happy

 

 

 

Of course, true to form, I found another coolant leak.  This time it's on the stem of the heater shutoff valve.  The valve is a NOS valve that I picked up from Mitchell Motors about 20 years ago.  Hopefully I will be able to tighten the gland nut a little to solve the problem.

 

 

Also drove it up and down the driveway again and up around the barn.  It's definitely a responsive engine.  I can't wait to get it out on the open road

 

[bkahler]

3 hours ago, Desotodav said:

Keep ironing out all the bugs Brad…. that never ends ?

 

The book of Bunn suggested that the single spoke of the steering wheel went straight up to enable better sight of the gauges…. so yours is spot on ?

 

I haven't looked through Bunn's book for a long time.  I probably ought to pull it off the shelf and browse through it again.

 

Thanks!

 

[bkahler]

Los,

 

I'm not a fan of RTV sealants either.  I typically use Permatex non-hardening #2 for bolts that penetrate oil or coolant cavities.  I'll pull the bolt, clean things up and the coat the bolt with Permatex and torque to spec.  Hopefully that will resolve the problem

 

I still need to deal with the weeping valve covers.  That's for another day....

 

Brad

[Los_Control]

I wonder if it is true?

I hear cork gaskets need to be soaked in oil before installation.

 

On modern engines I have been able to get rubber gaskets far superior to cork.

 

Old wife tale says to soak them in oil for 24 hours then install them .... they swell up & seal better.

I dunno. I always liked the rubber gaskets when I could find them.

[billrigsby]

44 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

On modern engines I have been able to get rubber gaskets far superior to cork.

 

I would go this route, this is the gasket I had on my engine unfortunately when the oil pump seized I had to remove the oil pan......

BEST Brand gaskets

Modern, not cork.

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by billrigsby

[bkahler]

19 hours ago, billrigsby said:

 

I would go this route, this is the gasket I had on my engine unfortunately when the oil pump seized I had to remove the oil pan......

BEST Brand gaskets

Modern, not cork.

 

 

 

 

No plans to change the cork gasket.  It's new, shows no signs of leaking and I spent a lot of time making sure it was installed right.  

 

I'm fairly certain the leak is weeping through the threads on the bolt itself.  

 

I will say I'm amazed, and a little frustrated, at how many small coolant and oil leaks have been showing up since I added fluids and started the engine up.  Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever stop the leaks

 

[billrigsby]

11 minutes ago, bkahler said:

No plans to change the cork gasket.

 

Understand, I saw some of the other posts about what to do about gaskets and thought I would post my two cents.

 

 

 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Have never seen a MoPar flathead six that didn't a least leave a drop some where after sitting for awhile.

They should not leak a small puddle either after sitting with a recent good reseal job.

Sad but true.

[bkahler]

16 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Have never seen a MoPar flathead six that didn't a least leave a drop some where after sitting for awhile.

They should not leak a small puddle either after sitting with a recent good reseal job.

Sad but true.

 

I know what you mean.  My other project is a Triumph TR6 and Triumphs are just like all of the older vehicle models, they leak....

 

I guess I was just hoping (i.e. wishing) that it would take at least a few months and maybe a road trip or two before the leaks started 

 

[BobK]

Well, At least it's not a FORD.......... Freaking Oil Really Dripping.

 

[bkahler]

21 minutes ago, BobK said:

Well, At least it's not a FORD.......... Freaking Oil Really Dripping.

 

 

That's one I hadn't heard before 

[bkahler]

Here is an extremely boring video of the  2nd 20 minute engine run where I played more with the throttle linkage adjustment and realized that the throttle arm to the front carburetor was too long.  I also re-torqued the head bolts for the third time although that process isn't in the video.

 

Brad

 

[bkahler]

I need some help diagnosing the smoke coming out of the exhaust.  If you've read enough of my thread you'll know that this engine was rebuilt back in 2000 and then sat until a few weeks ago when I finally started it for the first time.

 

Here's a video of the Smoking Exhaust that I took this evening.  The engine was up to temperature at the time of the video.  

 

So, is the smoke, blue or white?  Engine temps always stay right around 175 or so.

 

 

[DJ194950]

Looks blue to me.  Break in oil.

 

Smelling like antifreeze will always tell when it is water! 

 

Needs to be driven!! seats or not.

 

Should be fine.

 

Enjoy!

 

Don't worry be Happy!  ?

 

DJ

[Los_Control]

Curious too see what others say.

 

My used un-rebuilt engine had issues when first started. It smoked terrible. .... For many reasons.

I poured oil in the cylinders .... the valves were not seating correctly, some rings may have been stuck.

But after several heat cycles it was pretty presentable. ..... Then 3 years goes by and it smokes again.

 

I honestly believe the only way to cure this is to run it. They need to be ran in their power band ... through all the gears and under load .... not just sitting at a idle in the driveway.

 

Once you run it under operating conditions, you will know if any further work needs to be done.

 

I'm just saying, when you turn off a engine .... some valves will be open ... they can collect moisture and cause a poor seal at the valve seat .... cast iron rings can get sticky on aluminum pistons.

 

You are fine ..... you just need to drive it then access your engines condition.

[bkahler]

DJ / Los, thanks for the feedback.  

 

Whitish blue is what it appears to look like.  The engine has about an hour run time with about 60% of that at idle speed.  I need to pull the plugs to see what they look like. That might be a good task for this evening

 

Thanks!

 

Brad

[JBNeal]

On my rebuilds, the smoke was kinda like that for awhile, no antifreeze smell so I surmised that oil in the exhaust manifold and pipes was burning out.  Eventually the smoke volume dwindled away.  The end of the tailpipe also told the story, as it did not get tainted with oil residue at each oil change.  I do recall that each rebuild I did had a distinctive smell until all the assembly lubricants burned off and sealants cured.  When the smell would become unnoticeable, the smoke would be too, and that was the proof of each engine rebuild being complete. 

 

The 318 I did in my old Ramcharger was a different story, as it had a constant stream of blue smoke after a rebuild.  I had the heads machined, and the machine shop offered (and charged me for it) to install the valve stem seals.  When it only got worse after a few months of commuting, I threw in the towel on that project as my job responsibilities were eating away at my free time and I traded that basket case in for the Blue Bomber.

[bkahler]

On 4/16/2023 at 10:19 AM, JBNeal said:

On my rebuilds, the smoke was kinda like that for awhile, no antifreeze smell so I surmised that oil in the exhaust manifold and pipes was burning out.  Eventually the smoke volume dwindled away.  The end of the tailpipe also told the story, as it did not get tainted with oil residue at each oil change.  I do recall that each rebuild I did had a distinctive smell until all the assembly lubricants burned off and sealants cured.  When the smell would become unnoticeable, the smoke would be too, and that was the proof of each engine rebuild being complete. 

 

I haven't noticed any odor so far, at least nothing that stands out.  That may not mean anything as my sinuses are always plugged

 

 

On 4/16/2023 at 10:19 AM, JBNeal said:

The 318 I did in my old Ramcharger was a different story, as it had a constant stream of blue smoke after a rebuild.  I had the heads machined, and the machine shop offered (and charged me for it) to install the valve stem seals.  When it only got worse after a few months of commuting, I threw in the towel on that project as my job responsibilities were eating away at my free time and I traded that basket case in for the Blue Bomber.

 

I think the 318 and 360 are the same basic engine.  I had a newly rebuilt 360 (not by me) in a Jeep Cherokee and it never did stop using and burning oil.  I took it back to the shop several times and nothing worked.  I drove 600 miles round trip every weekend and had to add almost three quarts per weekend.  I was really happy once we sold it!

 

 

 

[bkahler]

Well....I didn't exactly drive the truck to the painters like I originally planned ?

 

During the times I drove it up and down my gravel driveway I noticed the radiator flexing slightly side to side.  I don't think it's anything to worry about but without any other supporting structure it seems a bit to flexible for my taste.  So, to play it safe I just trailered it over to a little church close to where the painter's shop is. 

 

Driving it onto the trailer and then off the trailer and then over to his shop I noticed the throttle wasn't returning back to idle.  The rpms would drop some but not all the way.  After pulling it into his shop I found that I had left the throttle return spring disconnected after I had worked on the linkage a few days before.

 

I will say the truck is extremely peppy and spins the rear tires with ease.  As a matter of fact, I have to be careful when  accelerating so I don't spin the tires ?

 

Anyway, I'm not sure how long it will be at the painters so the only thing I have to work on is the drivers side bed panel.  It's warped and I'm not yet sure how to overcome that issue 

 

Brad

[Los_Control]

Glad you have a decent painter .... the work looks awesome so far.

I have heard so many horror stories about "paint jail"

 

Technically my truck is in paint jail right now, waiting for the painter to finish so I can put it back together.

Problem is, I'm the painter .... I have nobody to complain to, life just gets in the way.

 

Locally a painter quoted $1500 for a cheap red paint with black stripes on a Ford Torino.

Painter finished the car. When they removed the tape for the stripes, peeled the paint off. They were not going to fix it.

Painter wants $3500 now, owner will not pay.

Painter steals new 4bbl carb & other speed parts from car .... owner calls police & tow truck & starts a court battle.

 

A fun story, my neighbor has a 65 chebby swb truck. Had his Cousin paint it ... beautiful job .... never finished the tail gate.

A honest quality job at a quality price .... Got the truck back, I'll get the tail gate done soon as I can ....

No problem Cousin, it looks great I love you let me know when the tailgate is done.

 

Meantime the painters father passes, the painter inherits over $2million .... Neighbor hears from him ... somewhere in South America on a 2 year world cruise.

My neighbor is looking for a 1965 chebby tailgate that he can get painted to match his truck.

 

You just can't control life.

 

[Los_Control]

30 minutes ago, bkahler said:

It's warped and I'm not yet sure how to overcome that issue

This can be a difficult issue. Any photos?

Is it the top rail bent? Or the sheet metal warped?

 

On my truck, the top rail is bent from being hit. Not much, maybe a 1/4". It will show when I close the tailgate.

I have a few ideas .... Just wonder what you mean when you say warped.

[bkahler]

20 hours ago, Los_Control said:

This can be a difficult issue. Any photos?

Is it the top rail bent? Or the sheet metal warped?

 

Kinda banana shaped front to back with a slight bow in the top rail.

 

20 hours ago, Los_Control said:

On my truck, the top rail is bent from being hit. Not much, maybe a 1/4". It will show when I close the tailgate.

I have a few ideas .... Just wonder what you mean when you say warped.

 

I believe the truck was used as a feed truck because the tailgate had been modified with a slide gate.  Most likely excessive loading cause the panel to bow outward.  

 

I'm considering finding a body shop that would be willing to take a look at it.  The guy doing my painting works out of his garage and is not set up to handle a panel with this much damage to it.  It probably won't be easy finding anyone that can properly deal with it.  Most body shops now deal with only new vehicles which is a totally different repair process

 

 

 

[bkahler]

21 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Glad you have a decent painter .... the work looks awesome so far.

I have heard so many horror stories about "paint jail"

 

Technically my truck is in paint jail right now, waiting for the painter to finish so I can put it back together.

Problem is, I'm the painter .... I have nobody to complain to, life just gets in the way.

 

Locally a painter quoted $1500 for a cheap red paint with black stripes on a Ford Torino.

Painter finished the car. When they removed the tape for the stripes, peeled the paint off. They were not going to fix it.

Painter wants $3500 now, owner will not pay.

Painter steals new 4bbl carb & other speed parts from car .... owner calls police & tow truck & starts a court battle.

 

A fun story, my neighbor has a 65 chebby swb truck. Had his Cousin paint it ... beautiful job .... never finished the tail gate.

A honest quality job at a quality price .... Got the truck back, I'll get the tail gate done soon as I can ....

No problem Cousin, it looks great I love you let me know when the tailgate is done.

 

Meantime the painters father passes, the painter inherits over $2million .... Neighbor hears from him ... somewhere in South America on a 2 year world cruise.

My neighbor is looking for a 1965 chebby tailgate that he can get painted to match his truck.

 

You just can't control life.

 

 

I've dealt with my share of people like this.  It's frustrating and can get expensive fast.  

 

That's why I pretty much do do all the work that I can on my vehicles.  There are some things I don't want/can't do but when possible, I do it myself.

 

[Los_Control]

Just now, bkahler said:

I believe the truck was used as a feed truck because the tailgate had been modified with a slide gate.  Most likely excessive loading cause the panel to bow outward.  

 

I'm considering finding a body shop that would be willing to take a look at it.  The guy doing my painting works out of his garage and is not set up to handle a panel with this much damage to it.  It probably won't be easy finding anyone that can properly deal with it.  Most body shops now deal with only new vehicles which is a totally different repair process

You are correct it is a different process today .... still basic body work though.

 

Being bowed outwards might be a blessing. Just easier to jig it up I mean.

A hack like me, I would set it on top of cement blocks supporting the ends. Then back my chebby truck up to it and use a bottle jack as a press. Might need to add some weight in the bed of the truck to help.

 

Thats the simple idea, might take 2 hours just cutting wooden wedges and setting the bed side at just the right angle.

Then when you apply weight it will go back to it's natural shape.

 

A body shop will have a frame table & anchor points to pull from .... will be more professional then my hackery 

Because the round pipe is so strong, they may want to just cut it out & replace it .... All out of range of my skill levels.

 

With your level of restoration, a body shop with a plasma cutter & tig welder .... replacing it may be the quickest option to achieve the level of quality you want.

 

Never know, you might take a swing at it .... might come out better then expected.

 

[Dave72dt]

1 hour ago, bkahler said:

 

I'm considering finding a body shop that would be willing to take a look at it.  The guy doing my painting works out of his garage and is not set up to handle a panel with this much damage to it.  It probably won't be easy finding anyone that can properly deal with it.  Most body shops now deal with only new vehicles which is a totally different repair process

 

 

 

You may be able to find one to look at it.  It'll be harder to find one willing to work on it.  The sides are really hard to straighten.  The embossed patterns add a lot of strength and when stretched are difficult to shrink back and then add the in the thicker gauge metal and that the panel's appearance on the outside directly relates to the panel's appearance on the inside means fillers must be at an absolute minimum.  The top rail is also not going to willingly go straight with the curled edge.  I've driven sections of pipe or solid bar down through that rolled edge to use as a dolly for working out dings and a sacrificial pipe can be left to help straighten a bowed flare edge.   Hours upon hours may be required to work the sides flat.  To top it off, standard box color is black.

 

This box alone took as long as doing all the metal forward of the box.  It's close.