1947 Vin Number location.

[Robertcat]

Hi so today I was going to go register my d24 in Pennsylvania and they require a sketching of the vin number.  I looked everywhere and I can’t find, I was able to locate some numbers on the block and even have a tag with the serial number but as far as the vin I’m out of luck.  Any suggestions? Thanks

[Plymouthy Adams]

the vin number as we know it today was not in existence back when these cars were built...most were registered by the engine number stamped on a boss above the generator drivers side just below the head and this same number is also stamped on the frame drivers side at the forward section of the rear axle tip-up.  there is also a body number on the cowl that is the supplier body number as delivered to Chrysler and then the obvious number Chrysler places on the door post as shown in your picture...this is the completed car number.    It is best to ask you DMV what numbers they want.....the door number is the actual car itself....again many registered by the engine number

[Mark D]

From my experience in the north east, serial number is synonymous with “VIN”. I’ve only come across one yet that was registered with the motor number and that car was a 1940 p10. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

3 minutes ago, Mark D said:

From my experience in the north east, serial number is synonymous with “VIN”. I’ve only come across one yet that was registered with the motor number and that car was a 1940 p10. 

 

ah..but how many were the original owners.....?

[casper50]

The number is also stamped on the left rear frame outboard usually on the rear wheel arch.  Some take a wire brushing to find.

Edited March 9, 2019 by casper50

[Robertcat]

So I guess my issue is I have a transferable registration that just has the vin numbering it not serial number.  So in the mind of the DMV how can they ever match up that my car is the same one from the registration?  

[Plymouthy Adams]

you have yet to identify to us the number on your registration and thus any answer here is based on the actual numbers associated with the vehicle and not specific to your problem....what did the DMV tell you in regards to what number they want....you may have to educate them to the fact that the VIN did not start until decades later.

[TodFitch]

1 hour ago, Mark D said:

From my experience in the north east, serial number is synonymous with “VIN”. I’ve only come across one yet that was registered with the motor number and that car was a 1940 p10. 

 

When I purchased my '33 Plymouth the number on the NY State paperwork was the engine number.

 

3 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

you have yet to identify to us the number on your registration and thus any answer here is based on the actual numbers associated with the vehicle and not specific to your problem....what did the DMV tell you in regards to what number they want....you may have to educate them to the fact that the VIN did not start until decades later.

 

Bingo. Post the number on the paperwork, or at least the first few characters/digits. From that we can help tell if the number was an engine number, serial number or something else.

 

One issue that sometimes comes up is it was fairly common for an engine to be replaced without changing the paperwork to show the new engine number.

[Veemoney]

Not sure if PA provides titles or just registration paperwork. I would look at the number currently identified on the paperwork you received with the vehicle and provide that number # etching. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

Pennsylvania is one of the hardest states to work and I ended up with a car my bud in PA could not get anything accomplished.  They told him (year ago now folks) to disassemble the car, identify each piece with a number, photograph said number and piece and submit all this for a title.  I bought the car from him, walked out of the office with title in hand in 15 minutes in my state.  Again, you may need to have a sit down with a local DMV clerk....

[Veemoney]

What I can tell you:

• My 34 Plymouth PD is titled using the Serial Number for the VIN on the title. That Serial Number Tag is on the passenger side door opening upright closest to the rear tire.
• My 41 Bus. coupe is titled using the Serial Number for the VIN on the title. That  Serial Number Tag is located on the passenger side door opening upright closest to the front tire. You have already located your tag for the Serial Number so just check to se if it matches the number in the VIN on your paperwork.
• My 47 WC pick-up was titled using the Engine Number for the VIN as  located on the engine pictured below.  

It will be either the Serial Number or the Engine Number that is shown on your paperwork when you purchased the car. One or the other typically and when purchasing any registered vehicle you should check the paperwork you are being provided with the numbers on the vehicle to make sure they match upfront as good practice. 

 

If neither of these 2 numbers match your paperwork It is possible your engine was changed out at some point and next I would look at the frame as Casper50 provided the picture with location. If you cannot find a matching number in the 3 locations mentioned I would say a prayer before going to see the DMV, light a candle, rub a rabbits foot and anything else that brings you luck since P. Adams has identified the PA DMV as tough to deal with.

 

Good Luck

 

 

 

[Eneto-55]

It would be interesting to know which states actually used the engine number for title registration instead of the serial number, which, as some have already said, is the older counterpart of what we have now, the Vehicle Identification Number. (VIN.  Being on the obsessive-compulsive side, redundancies like "VIN number" bug me like when people say "consensus of opinion".)  Anyway, now that myrant is past, getting back to titles.  If it is possible to identify which states used the engine (or frame) number to title a vehicle, it would also be interesting to know for which years they did it this way.  

But I thought that this thread was about the location of the SN tag, which the MoPar books all is on the left A pillar on P15s, and on the right A pillar on the 42's.  Well, my brother had a Plymouth that was, according to the SN, a P15, but the tag was on the Right A pillar.  It had been stripped before he got it, so at first I thought it was a '42, but not according to the SN.  (He doesn't have the car anymore, but I do have the SN written down someplace.)

[Robertcat]

You guys are correct the vin number is the engine number.  I barely see it but after a few treatments of paint thinnner I think I can get a sketch. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

even with the change of an engine...that number is on the frame...so in reality you should be golden.....I think I would prove the number then request a change on new registration to that of the body number on the door post for overall convenience. 

[JerseyHarold]

I had several Plymouths over the years that came with NY registrations and all of them had the engine number on the paperwork.   The NY DMV is/was very nice to work with.  It was an easy process to change the registration to the 'vehicle number' found on the hinge post.    

[BigDaddyO]

22 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

the Vehicle Identification Number. (VIN.  Being on the obsessive-compulsive side, redundancies like "VIN number" bug me like when people say "consensus of opinion".) 

 

I'm with you on this one.

 

Hot water heater is another one.

 

As is the purchase of a 'Hot Pocket'.

You can only buy the 'pocket', you have to supply the heat yourself.

[DonaldSmith]

I revel in ridiculous redundancies.  Years ago, the head secretary couldn't stand it when I said things like , "Thank goodness it's TGIF Friday."  I especially like "the international House of IHOP Pancakes".  I also like "Estimated ETA Time of Arrival". 

But I can't stand "ten-year anniversary" instead of "tenth anniversary".  "Anniversary" already means the turning of the year. 

So "VIN number is an incomplete reduncancy.  It should be "Vehicle Identification VIN Number". 

[Eneto-55]

Well, I suppose we should get back on the main topic as ASAP as possible.

[DrDoctor]

   Some states issue their own VIN’s for older vehicles that only have serial numbers, and don’t have factory-assigned VIN’s – a couple that come to mind are Kansas, and Delaware. It’s my understanding that a true VIN has alpha characters as well as numeric characters. Don’t know what difference it makes, but I didn’t write the laws . . .

[40desoto]

Im in California, my VIN on the title was the engine number.i successfully transfered the title over to me and registered the car with the engine number.

I have since swapped the engine and no other numbers on the car match.

I looked at the frame and a completely different number is stamped.

what should I do? 

Should I just restamp the frame to match the VIN number on the title? Or should I throw the old block in the trunk and drive over to the DMV to request a new VIN number?

[Plymouthy Adams]

in looking at the frame...be careful you do not locate and confuse the frame rail part number with that of the engine number....

 

if your previous engine did not match the frame...the error was before your purchase and only the DMV can truly advise from here.....however....as you had the engine number on the title and you changed engines, then the DMV will issue a new title based on the new engine number as this was the accepted practice through the ages when the engine number was the registering number.   However, this day and age could get sticky as there is no record of the donor vehicle being removed from service forever.   (surrender of donor vehicle title) Your taking the old block and title I should remedy you in hand title, but the mismatching frame number....if they don't bring it up...it might be wise for you not to either.  It would be a good time however to point out that a future engine change could result in yet more paperwork and possible problems and ask that they allow instead the body number be used in registration.  Usually a good conversation with the DMV goes pretty well.

[DJ194950]

40desoto-

 

Before i would open a can of worms with the Ca. DMV  about this issue I would pay the have A Ca. bonded, licensed DMV independent licenser  help walk you through this as to the best way to get you and Ca. Dmv happy, their # one goal of the Dmv here is your Money!

I will attach just one of many available.

They can come to you or you go to them (cheaper). They can and will help with this issue and can keep that can of worms Closed!

 

A web search should help locate someone close to you- I hope!

http://vehicleregistrationexperts.com/

 

Just a suggestion. Friends have used this type of service and been quite pleased.

 

DJ

[BigDaddyO]

2 hours ago, DJ194950 said:

40desoto-

 

Before i would open a can of worms with the Ca. DMV  about this issue

 

DJ

 

Why would he get involved with the Cali DMV when he is trying to register it in Pa?

[Eneto-55]

11 minutes ago, BigDaddyO said:

 

Why would he get involved with the Cali DMV when he is trying to register it in Pa?

I think he was responding to a similar question from someone other than the original poster, who is in PA.

But if I were to have a vehicle registered to an engine number that is no longer with the car, I would work to get it switched to the Serial Number, which I think was arguably the intention of the manufacturer, and it is also most like the VIN which is in use now (both being a tag mounted on the body itself). (Oddly, however, the VIN tag on my 1993 Chrysler T & C was actually mounted on the dash, not the cowl, as one would expect.)

[plymjim]

In Maryland, the vehicle identification number is the serial number, in you case the number 

stamped into the plate on your left front door post. For pennsylvania have you consulted the AMCA?

Headquarters right there in Hershey. Perhaps they could help.