Split exhaust/heat riser

[belvedere666]

Just picked Up a split  exhaust set up from someone that took it off their car. I didn’t, however, get the intake manifold. This is split 3/3 and the heat riser area has been removed. Is there anything I need to do to my intake to make sure this works correctly? A block off plate?

[dpollo]

it will run just fine the way it is.  Might be prone to icing in the carb depending on temperature and humidity.

[belvedere666]

13 minutes ago, dpollo said:

it will run just fine the way it is.  Might be prone to icing in the carb depending on temperature and humidity.

That good to know! I live in Southern California. Car will mostly be garaged and it’ll be rare that it’s ever driven in colder than 60 degree weather.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the area that would leak exhaust is already welded up , the intake section is an 'easy bake oven' so to speak...

[1949 Wraith]

I have a split exhaust on my '38 Dodge with the original Stromberg. I drive my car in temps down to around 20 degrees F when highways are clear (no heater). the only issue I have had is an occasional stall at a stop, then alleviated with applying a slight pull on throttle knob.I have noticed icing on the throat in the cold and condensation in the milder temps. 

The '38 has cowl vents and cools nicely, your '50 is probably a bit  warmer under the hood.

[Adam H P15 D30]

If you have the room. 

[belvedere666]

11 minutes ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

If you have the room. 

What are the little brass ports for?

[Branded]

53 minutes ago, belvedere666 said:

What are the little brass ports for?

Route your heater hose thru it, it helps warm the intake

Edited December 22, 2017 by Branded

[greg g]

Works great with the heater on. 

[Adam H P15 D30]

You can run separate smaller hoses so it's not dependent on the heater being on. I did this on my 49 intake using 5/16 hose and it works well

 

[greg g]

How did you plumb it?

[55 Fargo]

3 hours ago, belvedere666 said:

What are the little brass ports for?

Theres enough heat off the exhaust manifold never mind adding some............LOL

I do not see a need for this, my set-up is a stock intake made into duals, and my stock exhaust manifold is a tru separated dual exhaust, plenty of heat.

So this water fed plate, is supposed to warm up there Fenton Intake, heck by the time the water warms up the exhaust will be hot too.

AoK racing is not an advocate of heated intakes.

Mine even in the bitter cold is fine with a little choke until it warms up

[Adam H P15 D30]

7 hours ago, greg g said:

How did you plumb it?

Fargo might be right with the iron exhaust  manifold so close to the intake heating might not be necessary. With a header or a tube intake it becomes necessary. 

I used 5/16 lines Teed into the heater hoses, wish I had a better picture but you can see them. Works with the heater on or off. 

 

I have better pictures but this site's 3mb limit kills it

Edited December 23, 2017 by Adam H P15 D30

[Adam H P15 D30]

You can see the front connection here 

 

[JOHN EDGE]

I left the water heater off my offy intake .  Been in below freezing temps just have to let engine warm up a little .  There's plenty of heat from the exhaust manifolds

hate all that extra plumbing

 

 

 

 

[Adam H P15 D30]

I'm sure your cast aluminum intake is much better at transferring and retaining heat than the thin steel intake I built. Before I ran the water line it got cold to the touch the entire time the engine was running. 

[JOHN EDGE]

I liked your thought process when you were building that intake and exhaust

thought about doing something similar.  Wish their was a market to build a

really nice system and produce several and market them. The ethanol content

in today's fuel creates some of that cold temps.  Use to run an alcohol funny car and we'd have to de ice the throttle plates just before the run or the throttle plate would freeze

[timkingsbury]

On 12/22/2017 at 10:39 AM, Adam H P15 D30 said:

If you have the room. 

Sadly this is an idea that may work with other engines, but it most certainly does not work with the flathead.   We have done extensive tests. Shortly I will do a complete blog entry on it.  But the short version is that when an engine 1st starts up the temperature of the water/antifreeze is the outside air temperature.  I dont want to get into a big technical arguement as I

know at minus 46 degrees the antifreeze isnt minus 46 so save the comment.     Are the water is moved by this plate at start up you are actually drawing heat away from the intake. Heat that even with the split i the exhaust is naturally coming from the exhaust and hitting the intake.    Now  headers made from stock exhaust actually have a closer profile to the intake than

does say fentons, so there is more heat coming from them.    

 

But with the water heat attached  you have no positive effect until the engine has actually reached close to or reached operating temperature.  My then you dont need it.  Prior to that point you are actually drawing temperature away from the intake.      I can say that with absolute certainty. I have tested it at multiple temperature ranges.  Just like I have with the couple of generations of edmunds that offered water heating.

 

So save your time and money.  It doesnt work as one might expect and the icing of carbs, Ive heard this story many times and  have see many cars do it, but none where flathead mopars

until we are talking very cold temperatures which there are some on the forum that drive in them. Absolutely no doubt about that.   In that case  split your exhaust internally and leave it connected to the intake.

[Adam H P15 D30]

Like I said earlier, I have a thin steel tubing manifold not a thicker casting. Also my carbs sit 6" above the headers so no heat transfer there. What you say may work well with a casting but before I ran the hot water to my intake, it was cold to the touch when the engine was at 180 degrees after 20 minutes of run time.  

 

Anyway now that we are completely off topic, the OP probably won't need any heat anyway with the stock exhaust manifold right next to the intake. 

 

Edit: Ambient Temp was about 50 degrees. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Adam H P15 D30

[55 Fargo]

9 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Like I said earlier, I have a thin steel tubing manifold not a thicker casting. Also my carbs sit 6" above the headers so no heat transfer there. What you say may work well with a casting but before I ran the hot water to my intake, it was cold to the touch when the engine was at 180 degrees after 20 minutes of run time.  

 

Anyway now that we are completely off topic, the OP probably won't need any heat anyway with the stock exhaust manifold right next to the intake. 

 

Edit: Ambient Temp was about 50 degrees. 

I do not think this should be an issue Adam, but time will tell. I think those (hot summer days relative for your area), winter mornings near freezing might have an effect with higher humidity and carb icing, but in summer not likely you might even get those carbs good and hot too.......

[50plymouth]

On 12/26/2017 at 3:01 PM, JOHN EDGE said:

I liked your thought process when you were building that intake and exhaust

thought about doing something similar.  Wish their was a market to build a

really nice system and produce several and market them. The ethanol content

in today's fuel creates some of that cold temps.  Use to run an alcohol funny car and we'd have to de ice the throttle plates just before the run or the throttle plate would freeze

It already exists John.  I have had Fentons, Offys and even tried an Edgy (all too low) and Edmunds (best of the olde skool dual carb intakes) but when I got the AoK one from Tim Kingsbury it became obvious he knows what he is doing.  I have a 230 and it got almost 12 miles to the gallon better than the stock intake with 1 carb. I coupled it with George Asche`s headers so the increased fuel mileage could be attributed to the pair I am sure. Their was clearly more hp and more torque.  With previous cars where I used Fenton or Offy intakes the rev was there, plus some but I lost a lot of torque.    Here is the link on the site. On ethanol, I agree with you. Its nasty on carbs and their gaskets, rubber lines and for flatheads just isnt the fuel of choice. Again, in my opinion. Im lucky as I have lots of non-ethanol fuel options around me. In fact several 100 and above octane fuel options around me. 

 

 

[50plymouth]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:33 PM, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Like I said earlier, I have a thin steel tubing manifold not a thicker casting. Also my carbs sit 6" above the headers so no heat transfer there. What you say may work well with a casting but before I ran the hot water to my intake, it was cold to the touch when the engine was at 180 degrees after 20 minutes of run time.  

 

Anyway now that we are completely off topic, the OP probably won't need any heat anyway with the stock exhaust manifold right next to the intake. 

 

Edit: Ambient Temp was about 50 degrees. 

Interesting point. This morning I went out and measured the distance between the carb and the exhaust on my 1960  slant 6.  Yes I realize it maybe considered off topic although I think this proves the point.  I also looked quickly at some of the clifford and other intake options which all pull the carbs further from the exhaust.  My question is why doesn't anyone on the slant 6 side of the Mopar Church talk about water heating the intake  My exhaust is close to the intake runners as they hit the block but out on the carb there is no heat on my aftermarket intake and I don`t have any issues.  Actually it is -7 out side right now. Yes my Canadian friends I am talking Fahrenheit !   I fired up my car which is in the garage and no warmer in there. Then I fired up the slant six.   Both needed choke there is no doubt about that. Both were about 5 minutes with some choke and another 5 or 10 minutes before there was warmth coming from the defroster.  Like yesterday I will be heading out for lunch shortly. It was just as cold and I had no issues.  I have no evidence although after reading Tim Kingsbury`s post it makes complete sense to me that this water heater would draw heat from the intake until the engine reached operating temperature. Tracing the origins of that idea wasn't hard. Tom Langdon, Chevy guy with how much mopar experience..... really..  Again back looking at my slant 6,  I think this water heat is a lot to do about nothing.  Again just my opinion.

[Adam H P15 D30]

I never stated I expierenced any icing but I did expierence an ice cold intake. Mind that my intake is thin steel and not a thick casting. Does that make a difference?  Who knows. If my intake is cold and I live where it's damp and foggy part of the year, icing could happen. Since I was building the intake from scratch anyway it was no issue adding warmth to it. 

Sure Tom talks about heat but others do also and there is nothing to lose by warming it, only gains. I had planned to warm my intake regardless of what all the "experts" said, pros and cons. I'm sure they all work fine unwarmed right up until they don't. Every manufacturer heats them for this reason, maybe the aok boys know something Mopar, Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, etc engineers don't know??  But I do know this, the auto manufacturers don't do anything unless they absolutely have to. Hell, some manufacturers even heat the PCV valve for icing, and not only in cold climate areas. 

So once again, I built this thing from a pile of steel tubing, why wouldn't I add heat?  To find out I needed it later after it was done would have been a PITA. Same question to those that have the provisions in their intakes, why not use it?  There is no downside but a tad bit of plumbing. 

 

OP again. You will probably never need heat until the one time you do...

[55 Fargo]

Hey whatever works is Kool Adam.

I have always found "icing" at temps near 32 f and moisture in the air.

Cold dry weather not an issue, but who is put cruising at 20 below for the most part.

I think you may be dealing with heat issues more than cold issues come hot summer weather, 50 is still cold weather ypur engine most likely will not generate much under hood heat at that ambient temp.

Don Coatney is thanking you maybe he can share something on this topic while winter driving his 48 Plymouth or his 47 Dodge,  as he is  Hoosier State member...

 

[Young Ed]

42 minutes ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

I never stated I expierenced any icing but I did expierence an ice cold intake. Mind that my intake is thin steel and not a thick casting. Does that make a difference?  Who knows. If my intake is cold and I live where it's damp and foggy part of the year, icing could happen. Since I was building the intake from scratch anyway it was no issue adding warmth to it. 

Sure Tom talks about heat but others do also and there is nothing to lose by warming it, only gains. I had planned to warm my intake regardless of what all the "experts" said, pros and cons. I'm sure they all work fine unwarmed right up until they don't. Every manufacturer heats them for this reason, maybe the aok boys know something Mopar, Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, etc engineers don't know??  But I do know this, the auto manufacturers don't do anything unless they absolutely have to. Hell, some manufacturers even heat the PCV valve for icing, and not only in cold climate areas. 

So once again, I built this thing from a pile of steel tubing, why wouldn't I add heat?  To find out I needed it later after it was done would have been a PITA. Same question to those that have the provisions in their intakes, why not use it?  There is no downside but a tad bit of plumbing. 

 

OP again. You will probably never need heat until the one time you do...

Good point my 07 mazda has a heated intake. I know because the cheap plastic Ts they use to run coolant to it both disintegrated last summer!