V8 conversion for my 47 P15 sedan

[Don Coatney]

Mark;

Hard to believe it has been 10 years but I recall heading home from the POC meet in the Carolina's on I-40 heading west. I spotted your 49 coupe on a trailer several miles ahead of me while I was driving my P-15. I was cruising at around 70 MPH as you were.  So I took my foot off the gas and man alive I shoved her on down into overdrive. I over took you a few miles later running well over 80 MPH but don't you know by then I was low on gas.

The choice of an engine swap is yours to make. But the warmed up Desoto flat-head 255CI engine I installed in my P-15 was very dependable at speed and had ample HP to run some extras. My T-5 swap was well worth doing. But if I were to do it again I would most likely go V-8 or V-6 with an automatic transmission.

Geez even Crabby Adams was there as well as many other forum members.

 

 

[pflaming]

 

PThe surgery was 10 weeks ago, not a pleasant first eight weeks, but much better now. Knee seems to be fine,  now working on lost muscle strength. Yet there are a lot of movements that are NOT tolerated, so progress is slow. Maybe get the engine back in this weekend. 

[48ply1stcar]

3 or 4 years ago I went to a car show where the owner had used the front dakota frame with motor, cut the P15 frame overlapped them and welded them together. Kept the look stock, used the column shift to shift the automatic.

Edited November 15, 2017 by 48ply1stcar
pasted from other post

[dale]

21 hours ago, DrDoctor said:

 

   Not that anybody’s counting “votes” here, but I’m going to throw my 2¢worth in—simply put: I agree completely with knuckleharley (I almost always do, since we have a lot in common), pflaming (I almost always do with him, too [by the way—how did your surgery go???]), and Dale, Tom, Robert, Lloyd, and Bob, (these five gentlemen I’ve just encountered, but they share a common trait—common sense . . . and I do embrace that). Well, this ought to set off the others herein, but that doesn’t matter, either, because . . . . . . .

I posted for him to leave the Ply six setup in the car because I installed a SB chevy with 350 trns in mine and really regret not having known about this message board and the availability of the Chrysler sixes and the speed equipment.  Personally Id be much happier had I done that.

[Plymouthy Adams]

32 minutes ago, 48ply1stcar said:

3 or 4 years ago I went to a car show where the owner had used the front dakota frame with motor, cut the P15 frame overlapped them and welded them together. Kept the look stock, used the column shift to shift the automatic.

easiest, quickest and most affordable method open to the builder however it will lack that 'typical' HEIDT look most builders seem to shoot for.  I have done three and got two more Dakota donors on site for others.

[55 Fargo]

2 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

easiest, quickest and most affordable method open to the builder however it will lack that 'typical' HEIDT look most builders seem to shoot for.  I have done three and got two more Dakota donors on site for 

What cars or type of cars was this done on, P15s ?

Since you have done 3 how are they to drive, handling etc?

Please post some pics?

Are these both V6 and V8 swaps?

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[48ply1stcar]

Sorry I forgot to mention that he used a Dakota pick-up.  One frame just over-lapped the other, but I don't remember which way.  So he had power steering, front disc brakes, and AC.

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by 48ply1stcar
sp

[Plymouthy Adams]

1 hour ago, 48ply1stcar said:

Sorry I forgot to mention that he used a Dakota pick-up.  One frame just over-lapped the other, but I don't remember which way.  So he had power steering, front disc brakes, and AC.

 

depends on vintage Chassis as to which years frames are best suited for donor....on   P15 the frame is tapered...there is no direct but end to end, or inside/outside frame rails....you must alter the chassis to receive the Dakota if you looking for a solid abutment for strength and alignment.  NOW....if the man used the Dakota frame front to rear...ignore my last and full speed ahead...

[50 coupe]

On 11/12/2017 at 10:06 AM, Plymouthy Adams said:

are you doing the work yourself or do you have a shop in mind to carry out your wishes...I ask for in truth, we can make suggestions that have worked well for our cases but your installer may well kick and buck like a bronc at the suggestions...if using a shop, it is usually best ot question their experience in this and see what they are comfortable in doing...as for the Mopar V8..the small block is usually taller and the big block a tad wider compared to each other but overall very little difference....you can fit either.  Personally I think the V6 should not be ruled out.

I know Butch's makes a kit for small block mopar into a '50 deluxe, anyone have a kit for a 383? If not what have others done for the big block mopar?

[knuckleharley]

4 hours ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

What cars or type of cars was this done on, P15s ?

Since you have done 3 how are they to drive, handling etc?

Please post some pics?

Are these both V6 and V8 swaps?

 

I bought a P-15 coupe with a 78 Camaro frame clip,motor,trans,and rear,and it rides,drives,and handles like a dream. The frame clip mated to the P-15 chassis VERY nicely,but the previous owner did a horrible job of finishing it off. Practically no bracing and what was there was only tacked into place. Also,the engine was only bolted down on 1 side,and the trans wasn't bolted down at all. It was just sitting on two short "L" brackets that had been tacked to the chassis.

My favorite part was it was slopped together so quickly whoever did it didn't notice the speedo cable wrapped around the a ebrake cable,so they "fixed" the transmission leak by wrapping the tailshaft  with paper shipping tape. Seriously. They didn't even use duct tape,which at least would have held back SOME of the ATF as it headed towards the highway.

Still,I can't complain. I got it REALLY cheap and most of the repairs were inexpensive and mostly involved nothing more than welding and a few bolts and nuts,and a old GM factory trans mount crossmember I had laying around.

The only real drawback I see to this is that using motor mounts in the stock location on the frame clip puts the rear of the engine so close to the firewall that a lot of head radiates from the engine to the firewall,but if I moved the engine forward it would cause radiator clearance problems. The front wheels are perfectly centered in the fender openings,though.

The engine in it was a junker 305 and the transmission was a piece of crap Turbo 205 that doesn't rise the status of crap,so they are coming out anyhow to be replaced by a balanced and blueprinted 412 SBC that probably puts out a little north of 425 HP,and a rebuilt Turbo 350 with a hi-po shift kit and valve body. When I make the swap I will just recess the firewall a inch or two to make sure  it doesn't heat up the interior of the car so much.

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by knuckleharley

[Plymouthy Adams]

1 hour ago, 50 coupe said:

I know Butch's makes a kit for small block mopar into a '50 deluxe, anyone have a kit for a 383? If not what have others done for the big block mopar?

motor mounts are not a worry, what comes with the donor and the mating frame horns can be removed from the donor and easily fabricated to mate to your frame....truly the hardest part will be getting your self out there and start the tranformation

[55 Fargo]

52 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

I bought a P-15 coupe with a 78 Camaro frame clip,motor,trans,and rear,and it rides,drives,and handles like a dream. The frame clip mated to the P-15 chassis VERY nicely,but the previous owner did a horrible job of finishing it off. Practically no bracing and what was there was only tacked into place. Also,the engine was only bolted down on 1 side,and the trans wasn't bolted down at all. It was just sitting on two short "L" brackets that had been tacked to the chassis.

My favorite part was it was slopped together so quickly whoever did it didn't notice the speedo cable wrapped around the a ebrake cable,so they "fixed" the transmission leak by wrapping the tailshaft  with paper shipping tape. Seriously. They didn't even use duct tape,which at least would have held back SOME of the ATF as it headed towards the highway.

Still,I can't complain. I got it REALLY cheap and most of the repairs were inexpensive and mostly involved nothing more than welding and a few bolts and nuts,and a old GM factory trans mount crossmember I had laying around.

The only real drawback I see to this is that using motor mounts in the stock location on the frame clip puts the rear of the engine so close to the firewall that a lot of head radiates from the engine to the firewall,but if I moved the engine forward it would cause radiator clearance problems. The front wheels are perfectly centered in the fender openings,though.

The engine in it was a junker 305 and the transmission was a piece of crap Turbo 205 that doesn't rise the status of crap,so they are coming out anyhow to be replaced by a balanced and blueprinted 412 SBC that probably puts out a little north of 425 HP,and a rebuilt Turbo 350 with a hi-po shift kit and valve body. When I make the swap I will just recess the firewall a inch or two to make sure  it doesn't heat up the interior of the car so much.

 

Thanks Knuck for sharing this.

Hopefully it can help the OP.

Adams has done a few of these conversions with Mopar donor parts. But have never seen him post pics of these or whether or not he drives the converted vehicles.

Guys post pics of your V8 swaps front end clips and frame swaps. Nothing like pics to illustrate your posts 

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[knuckleharley]

31 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Thanks Knuck for sharing this.

Hopefully it can help the OP.

Adams has done a few of these conversions with Mopar donor parts. But have never seen him post pics of these or whether or not he drives the converted vehicles.

Guys post pics of your V8 swaps front end clips and frame swaps. Notjing like pics to illustrate ypur posts 

 

Here are a couple of photos of my P-15 that were taken before it caught fire under the hood. Good thing I always carry a fire extinguisher!

 

Notice how nicely the wheels are centered in the fender openings.

[59bisquik]

Just my 2 cents...

My first choice would be an early hemi. They look super tidy under the hood with the nice wide valve covers and hidden spark plug wires. However, they can be a bit spendy to build.

Second choice would be the 318-340-360 route equipped with some finned valve covers, retro air cleaner etc.

And of course just my opinion, but keep it Mopar and no V6 or frame swaps!

Edited November 15, 2017 by 59bisquik

[55 Fargo]

13 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

Here are a couple of photos of my P-15 that were taken before it caught fire under the hood. Good thing I always carry a fire extinguisher!

 

Notice how nicely the wheels are centered in the fender openings.

Nice car. Got any under hood pics.

I would rather it have stock wheels and caps though.

[knuckleharley]

12 minutes ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Nice car. Got any under hood pics.

I would rather it have stock wheels and caps though.

No on the under hood photos. Mostly melted wire now anyhow.

As for the wheels,I like the ones on it. If fact,I can't think of a single thing I don't love about that car,other than the fact I have to completely re-do it before I can drive it again. I even plan on repainting it that exact color,and getting ghost flames sprayed on it again if I can find anyone that can do them at a reasonable price.

I did buy a rotisserie a couple of months ago though,so that day might be a little closer than it was.

 

[John-T-53]

1 hour ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Adams has done a few of these conversions with Mopar donor parts. But have never seen him post pics of these or whether or not he drives the converted vehicles.

Guys post pics of your V8 swaps front end clips and frame swaps. Nothing like pics to illustrate your posts 

Maybe he'll post some when not under fire...

[wayfarer]

3 or 4 years ago I went to a car show where the owner had used the front dakota frame with motor, cut the P15 frame overlapped them and welded them together. Kept the look stock, used the column shift to shift the automatic.

The Gen I Dakota swap is popular for many reasons and none of them will appease those who don't like hot-rods of any sort. Some of you guys like to brag about all of your engine and trans modifications but scoff at a frame clip. Whats the deal? What makes a dual carb swap ok but not disc brakes? Seriously,  I gotta know so that I can try to figure out the logic (assuming that some exists).

We are blessed with modern suspension, brakes and the ease of installing a newer engine (that some of us prefer) so whats not to like?

[Adam H P15 D30]

Here's mine with a 71 Firebird clip.  Trick is to graft it and finish it in a way that is both strong and looks almost factory.  I've seen some really scary looking clip jobs.  Besides what was already stated, the clip doesn't taper as much as the original frame giving me more room for exhaust and the steering box is completely out of the way.  BTW I hate rack & pinion steering so the clip was a no brainer over the MII .

Adam

[55 Fargo]

6 minutes ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

Here's mine with a 71 Firebird clip.  Trick is to graft it and finish it in a way that is both strong and looks almost factory.  I've seen some really scary looking clip jobs.  Besides what was already stated, the clip doesn't taper as much as the original frame giving me more room for exhaust and the steering box is completely out of the way.  BTW I hate rack & pinion steering so the clip was a no brainer over the MII .

Adam

Nice work and pics show it all.

 

[knuckleharley]

24 minutes ago, wayfarer said:

3 or 4 years ago I went to a car show where the owner had used the front dakota frame with motor, cut the P15 frame overlapped them and welded them together. Kept the look stock, used the column shift to shift the automatic.

The Gen I Dakota swap is popular for many reasons and none of them will appease those who don't like hot-rods of any sort. Some of you guys like to brag about all of your engine and trans modifications but scoff at a frame clip. Whats the deal? What makes a dual carb swap ok but not disc brakes? Seriously,  I gotta know so that I can try to figure out the logic (assuming that some exists).

We are blessed with modern suspension, brakes and the ease of installing a newer engine (that some of us prefer) so whats not to like?

I can't speak for anyone but myself,but the "key" to old car pleasure to me is a combination of how they look,how they drive,and how they sound,and I especially love the smell of mohair interior in a car that has been sitting in the sun. I can smell that,close my eyes,and suddenly be back in the 1950's and sitting in a family car.

I PERSONALLY also appreciate the sights and sounds of the 50's,with various hot-rod modifications to make the cars faster and safer.

I personally draw the line at frame clips and high-tech computer controlled everything,though. When you go that far,they become modern cars in a costume to me. Nothing wrong with them,but they just don't bring back any childhood memories for me.

Yes,I DO have a P-15 couple with a 78 Camaro frame clip,engine,auto trans,and rear. I see it as being a 78 Camaro wearing a clever disguise,not a antique or classic car in any sense. I enjoyed driving the car before it caught fire,and I will continue to enjoy the car when/if  I get it back on the road,but driving it will be like driving a new high-performance car,and a completely different experience than I will have while driving my 6 banger 42 Dodge business coupe with the 49 Plymouth bumpers,pale purple paint,full "Moon" hubcaps,whitewalls,and 3 carb flathead with a 3/4 cam,39 Dodge floor shift trans,and split exhaust with glasspacks.

When driving the "P-15 Camaro" I will be enjoying myself as well as getting where I am going. When driving the 42 Dodge coupe,I will be grinning from ear to ear the whole damn trip.

 

BTW,I also own a dead stock as delivered 1931 Plymouth coupe,and it will remain a dead stock as delivered 1931 Plymouth coupe for every day that I own it. When I do sell it,I will do my damnedest to sell it to someone who also wants to keep it dead stock.

MY OPINION ONLY,and worth every dime it cost you.
 

Edited November 16, 2017 by knuckleharley

[Adam H P15 D30]

12 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

I can't speak for anyone but myself,but the "key" to old car pleasure to me is a combination of how they look,how they drive,and how they sound,and I especially love the smell of mohair interior in a car that has been sitting in the sun. I can smell that,close my eyes,and suddenly be back in the 1950's and sitting in a family car.

I PERSONALLY also appreciate the sights and sounds of the 50's,with various hot-rod modifications to make the cars faster and safer.

I personally draw the line at frame clips and high-tech computer controlled everything,though. When you go that far,they become modern cars in a costume to me. Nothing wrong with them,but they just don't bring back any childhood memories for me.

Yes,I DO have a P-15 couple with a 78 Camaro frame clip,engine,auto trans,and rear. I see it as being a 78 Camaro wearing a clever disguise,not a antique or classic car in any sense. I enjoyed driving the car before it caught fire,and I will continue to enjoy the car when/if  I get it back on the road,but driving it will be like driving a new high-performance car,and a completely different experience than I will have while driving my 6 banger 42 Dodge business coupe with the 49 Plymouth bumpers,pale purple paint,full "Moon" hubcaps,whitewalls,and 3 carb flathead with a 3/4 cam,39 Dodge floor shift trans,and split exhaust with glasspacks.

When driving the "P-15 Camaro" I will be enjoying myself as well as getting where I am going. When driving the 42 Dodge coupe,I will be grinning from ear to ear the whole damn trip.

MY OPINION ONLY,and worth every dime it cost you.
 

I agree but each has it's advantages, that's why I drive this almost daily...  Has that mohair smell and sound only a Flathead can make...  

But when I want to go fast.......

Edited November 16, 2017 by Adam H P15 D30

[Plymouthy Adams]

8 minutes ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

 

But when I want to go fast.......

 

I hope it is not preceded by a scream followed by driving off a mountain cliff...

[knuckleharley]

15 minutes ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

I agree but each has it's advantages, that's why I drive this almost daily...  Has that mohair smell and sound only a Flathead can make...  

But when I want to go fast.......

Yup,I am in love with the sounds that hot inline 6's make,too.

I rarely have any real desire to go fast anymore,but when/if I get it back on the road,my 425hp+ P-15 should take care of that need. Looking stock except for the wheels and paint just make it sweeter for me.

[Adam H P15 D30]

Just now, Plymouthy Adams said:

I hope it is not preceded by a scream followed by driving off a mountain cliff...

Not very fast at the moment because I always seem to take it apart...  Decided to make it one color and maybe put some sort of interior in it, wife insists. The few times I have driven it and stood on it, went pretty good.  It handles very well but traction is sometimes an issue   It's one of those filler projects that progresses between real projects.

To the O.P.  Point here is put what ever floats your boat in it.  It's your car and you should only have to please yourself and nobody else.  Take your time and do the best job you can and make it SAFE.  If you find yourself cutting corners, take a break and walk away for a while.  Sit down and think of a plan and stick to it as best as you can.  Always remember, there only needs to be 1 pristine original example of every car, the rest can be hotrodded!

Adam