Over Heating

[DollyDodge]

My B2C started running at about 180, been running 160 since the rebuilt.. I thought it was the thermostat so I got anew. one, put it in the morning. At idle it went to 212 fairly quickly,.. The top radiator tank was cool, top hose cool, bottom hose hot.  Could it be the water pump. I put the old and new thermostats in hot water and they both opened about the same time.. I need help.

[Don Coatney]

With the radiator cap removed, engine running at a fast idle, can you see any water movement in the top of the radiator tank?

[Plymouthy Adams]

DO check your belt for taunt, do not over tighten and also check your engine timing..could be a sign of poor tune due to points wear or simply misadjusted.....place a fan in front to see if you can drop temp while idling....if some drop but not enough...run cool water over the radiator and if cools, then I would guess your radiator is not exchanging water at the proper rate....signs of internal blockage 

[Todd B]

Is the thermostat upside down 

[Los_Control]

I have only seen it once before, a 1969 dodge dart and the impeller on the water pump rusted and broke off.

Was no water leaking but no water pumping either ...... so yes it is possible

[DollyDodge]

When I tried to take the radiator cap off there was pressure so I didn't take it off. I have the the spring facing the ground on the thermostat, is that correct! I took the water pump off and the impellers moving.. The pump seems ok

Edited September 30, 2017 by DollyDodge

[Reg Evans]

1 hour ago, Todd B said:

Is the thermostat upside down 

Oops....I did that once.....only once though.

[DollyDodge]

Which way is the correct way for the thermostat?.  I put the old  thermostat back, put it all together.. Runs at 180 or a little bit less. If I spray water on the  radiator the temp drops.. I see no movment of water in the  radiator tank, but there is a long tube where the cap goes, down into the tank, not sure I wouold see water moving.. Top tank is now hot when running.. Baffles me.. Will running at 180 hurt anything?

Edited September 30, 2017 by DollyDodge

[55 Fargo]

1 minute ago, DollyDodge said:

Which way is the correct way for the thermostat?.  I put the old  thermostat back, put it all together.. Runs at 180 or a little bit less. If I spray water on the  radiator the temp drops.. I see no movment of water in the  radiator tank, but there is a long tube where the cap goes, down into the tank, not sure I wouold see water moving.. Top tank is now hot when running.. Baffles me.. Will running at 180 hurt anything?

180 will not hurt anything.

So whats the ambient temp in your area right now?

A 180 t/stat will begin to open at around 175 and be fully open near 200.

So with this t/stat go for a drive, what temp are you running at?

[55 Fargo]

Running at 160 might feel safe, but really it;s not optimal, 180 is far better, as long as it stays near 180 and for these engines and cooling systems being 200 is not the greatest scenario.

So all of a sudden you start running at 180, but have been nearer 160 after the rebuild. Is it hotter outside, are you not in a hot climate area?

Is the rad working efficiently, any chance the head gasket is leaking hot exhaust into the water jacket, water pump gone bad etc.

[55 Fargo]

2 hours ago, DollyDodge said:

My B2C started running at about 180, been running 160 since the rebuilt.. I thought it was the thermostat so I got anew. one, put it in the morning. At idle it went to 212 fairly quickly,.. The top radiator tank was cool, top hose cool, bottom hose hot.  Could it be the water pump. I put the old and new thermostats in hot water and they both opened about the same time.. I need help.

Normal process of refilling the system with new t/stat, once up to temp for the t/stat to open temps level out system fills and purges all air out...

[Charlie Stephenson]

The little brass thinge about 1/2" in diameter and in length is towards the engine and spring up into the thermostat housing.  The brass thinge, has a piston and  is filled with Hygroscopic material - grows when exposed to a rise in temp.  It pushes against the spring which opens the thermostat valve allowing the water to pass through the engine into the bottom of the radiator for temperature exchange i.e. - cooling and returning to the engine from the top of the radiator. The water pump is an open impeller design as to not create a vacuum when sucking the water out of the engine, flashing the water to steam. Now there is a thought ? is the pump cavitating ? exhaust gas cross connection in the cooling system would certainly increase the chances of cavitation.  The rise from 160 F to 212 F and back to 180 Leeds me to think maybe a re-torque of the head my change the temperature fluctuation, or not.   The pump will not pump steam, and no it does not have to be 212 degrees F the make steam. The pump  pushes the water to the bottom of the radiator - and then back to the engine at the engines hottest spot,  the head.  The water is pumped up from the bottom of the radiator to allow gravity to release any bubbles that form in the coolant for what ever reason to escape to the top tank and allow clear water to flow through the cooling system.  Pressure radiator caps, that's another story by its self,  that's all I understand about cooling. Charlie Stephenson, I enjoy learning every day of my 72 years under the supreme beings seeing eye,  if anyone can learn me more,  please speak up ---- This could turn out to be a tuff one, if you want 160 F again, my 201 runs at 160 (parade car), until I left the radiator cap off one winter in storage and the mice built a nest inside the radiator and plugged up the cooling tube, still not repaired. I'm worn out, taking my nap now.

[DollyDodge]

2 hours ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

180 will not hurt anything.

So whats the ambient temp in your area right now?

A 180 t/stat will begin to open at around 175 and be fully open near 200.

So with this t/stat go for a drive, what temp are you running at?

It is about 90 today.. My concern is it didn't do this last summer (a year ago). It didn't all of a sudden start running at 180, at the start of this summer I noticed it creepping up.. It runs just at the edge driver sid edge of the 0 on the 160 mark.. Whe ai idl for a long time, or climb hills it movess up to the passnget side of the 0

[DollyDodge]

4 minutes ago, Charlie Stephenson said:

The little brass thinge about 1/2" in diameter and in length is towards the engine and spring up into the thermostat housing.  The brass thinge, has a piston and  is filled with Hygroscopic material - grows when exposed to a rise in temp.  It pushes against the spring which opens the thermostat valve allowing the water to pass through the engine into the bottom of the radiator for temperature exchange i.e. - cooling and returning to the engine from the top of the radiator. The water pump is an open impeller design as to not create a vacuum when sucking the water out of the engine, flashing the water to steam. Now there is a thought ? is the pump cavitating ? exhaust gas cross connection in the cooling system would certainly increase the chances of cavitation.  The rise from 160 F to 212 F and back to 180 Leeds me to think maybe a re-torque of the head my change the temperature fluctuation, or not.   The pump will not pump steam, and no it does not have to be 212 degrees F the make steam. The pump  pushes the water to the bottom of the radiator - and then back to the engine at the engines hottest spot,  the head.  The water is pumped up from the bottom of the radiator to allow gravity to release any bubbles that form in the coolant for what ever reason to escape to the top tank and allow clear water to flow through the cooling system.  Pressure radiator caps, that's another story by its self,  that's all I understand about cooling. Charlie Stephenson, I enjoy learning every day of my 72 years under the supreme beings seeing eye,  if anyone can learn me more,  please speak up ---- This could turn out to be a tuff one, if you want 160 F again, my 201 runs at 160 (parade car), until I left the radiator cap off one winter in storage and the mice built a nest inside the radiator and plugged up the cooling tube, still not repaired. I'm worn out, taking my nap now.

Thanks

[55 Fargo]

Just now, DollyDodge said:

It is about 90 today.. My concern is it didn't do this last summer (a year ago). It didn't all of a sudden start running at 180, at the start of this summer I noticed it creepping up.. It runs just at the edge driver sid edge of the 0 on the 160 mark.. Whe ai idl for a long time, or climb hills it movess up to the passnget side of the 0

Lots of variables, from late timing, to a lower rad hose collapsing, waterpump impeller or belt slipping, rad has some obstruction.

Lets face it 90 f is hot, and idling the temp will rise, going up hills and more throttle more load is more heat.

Go and install another 160 t/stat, as with a 180 t/stat where it will be and higher.. not lower.

What temp is your new t/stat?

[Don Coatney]

46 minutes ago, Charlie Stephenson said:

The little brass thinge about 1/2" in diameter and in length is towards the engine and spring up into the thermostat housing.  The brass thinge, has a piston and  is filled with Hygroscopic material - grows when exposed to a rise in temp.  It pushes against the spring which opens the thermostat valve allowing the water to pass through the engine into the bottom of the radiator for temperature exchange i.e. - cooling and returning to the engine from the top of the radiator.

That is totally incorrect. The spring on the thermostat goes towards the engine block. When the thermostat opens hot coolant enters the top of the radiator and cools as it drops to the bottom of the radiator where it returns to the suction side of the pump to be circulated through the engine.

[DollyDodge]

3 hours ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Lots of variables, from late timing, to a lower rad hose collapsing, waterpump impeller or belt slipping, rad has some obstruction.

Lets face it 90 f is hot, and idling the temp will rise, going up hills and more throttle more load is more heat.

Go and install another 160 t/stat, as with a 180 t/stat where it will be and higher.. not lower.

What temp is your new t/stat?

New thermostat is 160..  I put the old and new in a pot on the stove side by side and turned on the heat, they opened at about the same time.. My old thermostat is the original design, it also has a much larger opening than the new one.. I may just wait and see what happens as cool weather arrives.. It is a bit of a baffle for me, the  was  radiator was rebuilt and cored during the restoration project.

[Merle Coggins]

It was mentioned earlier to check your timing, but the focus seems to be on your cooling system. I will say it again... Check your ignition timing and points gap/dwell. If the timing is off it will cause the engine to run hotter. This could explain the slow temperature rise over time. Especially if you are running a points ignition. As the points wear the timing will change.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Merle Coggins

[DollyDodge]

5 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

It was mentioned earlier to check your timing, but the focus seems to be on your cooling system. I will say it again... Check your ignition timing and points gap/dwell. If the timing is off it will cause the engine to run hotter. This could explain the slow temperature rise over time. Especially if you are running a points ignition. As the points wear the timing will change.

Thanks Merle.. I set the points about a month ago, I will check again.. What should be the timing at 4,000 feet?. The guy that rebuilt the engine set it at TDC.. It was cool this morning and I took her for a spin, definetly ran cooler, just off rhe 160 markf, idled about where it ran yesterday, 180.  Given how it ran a year ago, it doesn't see. quite right.. My timimg light died so I need to get a new one.

[Charlie Stephenson]

Thank You Don, I will check my statement and make corrections as needed.  Charlie Stepehsnon

[pflaming]

I have my timing set at 2 degrees TDC. My climate is same as yours and I run between 160 and 180. See manual page picture.

[DollyDodge]

Thanks, the manual you posted says for 46-52 TDC, which is where mine (1950) is, though that recommendation is for low altitude.. My 1950 manual says TDC with a range from 4 before to 4 after.  I wish I had the timing mechanism shown in the manual.  I always foget I have the manual, and forget to check it when I have questions- silly me 

[Jeff Balazs]

 It has been a very hot summer here. I had some struggles with this issue as my route home from the shop includes a long steep grade with lots of stop-n-go traffic. Timing adjustments had no effect. Finally had the head gasket go. It was made by Felpro. Replaced it with one made by Best and have not had a problem since. Best must actually be best because the truck has never run better.

Jeff