Just a blown head gasket, if I'm lucky

[knuckleharley]

1 minute ago, Hubler13f said:

There isnt anything art or deco about my 47 IHC KB1. Thats my fine tuning tool on the hood.

Binders had some pretty thick steel,so that makes sense.

[greg g]

KB's are to cool!  I think Raymond Lowey may have supervised the design.  He was working on the IH logo and on the tractors at the time.  I think he had a hand in the Metro Van delivery truck as well. Don't get much better art deco than old Ray.

[rcb]

Most of my tractors are Farmalls (IH) and I've always liked the truck, but have never owned one. That's a nice looking truck! Well, in that unfinished way. But then I always look at project vehicles through rose colored glasses.

Edited June 8, 2017 by rcb

[medium_jon]

11 hours ago, Hubler13f said:

on the hood

Good looking hood ornament 

[Plymouthy Adams]

puts a whole new meaning to   "put the hammer down"

[Hubler13f]

Well, I got a call at 8:15 this morning and the head was done. He had to take .025 off the head, only the two ends of the head were touching the blade when he first set it up. He said he was surprised it sealed at all. He also recommended a thin coat of permatex #2 when I reinstall. Just waiting on the gasket, water pump and thermostat to come in the mail. I was wondering if I should reuse the head bolts I took out and/or what grade of bolts I should replace them with, grade 8 or better? I would usually get ARP studs but don't really see a need for this engine. 

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, rcb said:

Most of my tractors are Farmalls (IH) and I've always liked the truck, but have never owned one. That's a nice looking truck! Well, in that unfinished way. But then I always look at project vehicles through rose colored glasses.

Well,plans are to sand it to the bare metal and paint it the original Forest green using spray cans and a roller. Going to do the beltline in yellow. I was forced to buy new glasses for the doors after the old ones shook themselves to death,so I will be replacing all the glass hardware and rubber,too.

I may or may not pound out the fender dents and grind down the "repairs" to fender cracks made with an arc welder and strap steel. Or I might just blast it and paint right over it.  The truck is all-original with matching serial numbers on the chassis,the engine,and the cab,so why not leave the "field repairs" original on a honest work truck,too?

The idea is to preserve it to prevent it from turning into junk.  No rust out on the truck at all. Not even in the metal floor in the bed.

All I plan on doing with it is just driving it around occasionally for fun,and for hauling trash to the dump. One day someone may offer me the right amount of money that day,and it will find a new home. One,I hope,where it either remains original or gets restored. I even have an original IHC two piece radio for it that has been rebuilt and works.

I saw a restored one that sold for a little north of 34 grand about 3 years ago,so there are people restoring these things.

BTW,of all the stuff I own,this one draws the most attention.I have never left it parked in the Food Lion parking lot while buying groceries,and not came outside to see people taking photos of it with their cell phone cameras,and smiling.

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by knuckleharley

[knuckleharley]

18 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by knuckleharley
deleting duplicate post

[knuckleharley]

27 minutes ago, Hubler13f said:

Well, I got a call at 8:15 this morning and the head was done. He had to take .025 off the head, only the two ends of the head were touching the blade when he first set it up. He said he was surprised it sealed at all. He also recommended a thin coat of permatex #2 when I reinstall. Just waiting on the gasket, water pump and thermostat to come in the mail. I was wondering if I should reuse the head bolts I took out and/or what grade of bolts I should replace them with, grade 8 or better? I would usually get ARP studs but don't really see a need for this engine. 

I'd go with new Grade 8 if you can find them,and VERY carefully clean out the threaded holes in the block to make sure they go in smoothly and there is nothing at the bottom to keep them from seating properly.

[Don Coatney]

I would not use a standard grade 8 bolt. The shank of the original head bolts is undercut as pictured below. A standard bolt is not. The reason for the undercut is so the bolt will not rust fast to the head. I believe others have used shiverlay head bolts with good results.

[Hubler13f]

2 hours ago, Don Coatney said:

I would not use a standard grade 8 bolt. The shank of the original head bolts is undercut as pictured below. A standard bolt is not. The reason for the undercut is so the bolt will not rust fast to the head. I believe others have used shiverlay head bolts with good results.

Good to know, thank you!

[55 Fargo]

8 hours ago, Hubler13f said:

Well, I got a call at 8:15 this morning and the head was done. He had to take .025 off the head, only the two ends of the head were touching the blade when he first set it up. He said he was surprised it sealed at all. He also recommended a thin coat of permatex #2 when I reinstall. Just waiting on the gasket, water pump and thermostat to come in the mail. I was wondering if I should reuse the head bolts I took out and/or what grade of bolts I should replace them with, grade 8 or better? I would usually get ARP studs but don't really see a need for this engine. 

I would re-use the head bolts, rather than regular grade 8 bolts for the posted reasons.

Clean up your head bolts on the wire wheel, and they might be just fine... or order new head bolts....ask the Wife....LOL

[Plymouthy Adams]

you can check you bolts for stretch in the threads by laying it on flat edge..you can also check against a new bolt for loss of pitch.....if it passes the tests of intergrity, and no stretch...reuse should not pose a problem as they are not subjected to an extreme torque value and of further interest are not subject to increase stress as they are not angle torqued like many modern applications...(say 90 ft lb plus 120 degrees)   most modern head bolts might get one re-use before stretched out of whack and no longer useable..

[Hubler13f]

Well, it started out a good day I got parts late yesterday and tore into the garage early this morning trying to get it done. I remember another thread where some of the differences of the newer vs. the older water pumps. So below is a picture of the innards. You can see that the impeller design is totally different, also notice the threaded bung for placing a fitting for a heater hose to the of the new pump, this would be below the lower radiator hose connection. Also the mounting flange under the lower radiator hose connection is much thicker, the new pump came with a longer replacement bolt though.

So I got everything put together, I used permatex copper spray on the head gasket and permatex #2 to seal everything else. I checked and rechecked everything to ensure I had it all together right. I checked the oil again, it seemed a little high, but not bad so at this point I wasn't to worried that any water had gotten down into the pan. So I turned the key, pushed the button and the car started immediately. It seemed to be idling a little high so I began going to work with my screw driver, vacuum gauge and timing light. As on cue the car started steaming as soon as it started to warm up and lasted about 10 minutes all as experienced and predicted by DPOLLO

This is where things begin to go south. As I was adjusting the timing I removed the fill tube and could see the oil looked a little thing and somewhat like chocolate milk. I thought no big deal, I probably did get a little coolant in the oil. So I shut it down and was thinking I'll just run into town get a couple gallons of oil and do a couple oil changes over the next couple days. Then I thought while I have it up to operating temp I might as well re-torque the head bolts to 70 lbs. as stated in the service manual.

Here's where it goes really south!!! I got to bolt number 8 in the sequence and snap, my heart sank. The bolt snapped deep in the hole, past the head and just below the deck,  I have tried everything from easy outs, left hand twist drill bits, everything and it has not budged. And to top it off I really screwed myself  when I snapped a 3/16 bit off in there. So now I am faced with having to tear it all down to try to extract this bolt by trying to weld a nut on it. I cleaned, wire wheeled, ran them through the die to clean the threads, checked and double checked these bolts. I have never before reused head bolts except on this engine and now I remember why. Part of me wants to say %&#@ it and just run it, until the next time I need to tear it down.

[Dartgame]

Arrgghh- I feel for you. If it were me I'd rip it down and get the bolt remnant out and redo with new head bolts. Just curious - how much work was it too clean up the old bolts, were they rusty - or did they just need a little cleaning. reason I ask is eventually I will be pulling the head on my motor and I am looking for a bench mark...

[rcb]

I probably would pull it too. It'd drive me crazy just knowing its there. The broken drill bit makes me cringe. Like you were saying, I'd wager welding a nut on might be the only way... depending how far below the deck it is.

Edited June 15, 2017 by rcb

[Mike36]

Sure hope you have a good outcome to this problem. As a retired machinest, I have removed more broken bolts than I care to remember. I have always said there is no better teacher than pain, and we learn quickly when it hurts bad. Long ago I learned when removing broken bolts, ALL efforts have to be in line with the centerline of the bolt. If drilling a hole for a easy- out, you absolutely must be drilling in the bolt center. Close to center is NOT good enough!!! If off center, the easy-out will not turn concentric to the bolt, most likely resulting in the easy-out breaking. Then things are really complicated, because the easy-out is hardened. Broken drill bits are caused by using a dull bit, misalignment, trying to go too fast, and not pulling bit from hole frequently and blowing hole out with compressed air. Use oil on the drill bit! To maintain alignment, take a short bolt of the same size to a machinest with a lathe, and have a hole drilled thru it on center, the same diameter you want in the broken bolt. Screw this guide in above the broken bolt if possible. To start drilling, use a center drill. They are more rigid and less likely to walk off center. Go slow, drilling with a pecking action and light pressure to start.    Hopefully these tips will help keep some out of trouble, but are not everything needed to know on the subject. Above all, do not get in a hurry, and DO NOT get off center. Ask questions.

[keithb7]

Painful news to hear of this broken head bolt. 

I recently pulled my head off. The age of the bolts is unknown. I was undecided for a few days whether to re-use them or not. I just went ahead ordered a full new set. 

[Hubler13f]

2 hours ago, Dartgame said:

Arrgghh- I feel for you. If it were me I'd rip it down and get the bolt remnant out and redo with new head bolts. Just curious - how much work was it too clean up the old bolts, were they rusty - or did they just need a little cleaning. reason I ask is eventually I will be pulling the head on my motor and I am looking for a bench mark...

It wasn't bad at all I took each of the 21 head bolts and put the head in the vice and wire wheeled them then took a die and ran it down the bolt to clean the threads, maybe 45 minutes work total. In hindsight though I should have opened up my wallet and bought new bolts.

I was hoping someone here would say heck with it run it til it blows again, but i know the right thing to do is tear it down again. I am thinking i will tear it down and cut the head of the bolt at the correct depth so it just touches the broken half then drill the head out to about 5/16, put it in the hole and try to mig it together and plug weld it. Then slowly turn it out.

[MackTheFinger]

That's bad luck. I'd probably take it to the machine shop and let them have at it. If you want to get by without replacing the bolt you could try using a huge C-clamp around the whole engine or maybe a piece of 3/8" angle iron running the length of the head with the rest of the head bolts clamping it down...

The main thing to remember is keep your sense of humor and not get discouraged, it'll get fixed and you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of the whole ordeal,,,, eventually..

[Hubler13f]

19 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said:

That's bad luck. I'd probably take it to the machine shop and let them have at it. If you want to get by without replacing the bolt you could try using a huge C-clamp around the whole engine or maybe a piece of 3/8" angle iron running the length of the head with the rest of the head bolts clamping it down...

The main thing to remember is keep your sense of humor and not get discouraged, it'll get fixed and you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of the whole ordeal,,,, eventually..

 Exactly, this is my hobby not a job. And this car is not my main means of transport. I walked away from it until I can think for a while. I dug some pits with my back hoe today, played in the pool with the kids for the last couple hours. It will be there when I want to get back into it.

[MackTheFinger]

That's the right attitude. Be careful, though; I have projects I walked away from decades ago.. I'll get to them all one of these days..  That Heritage might need the wheels rotated, too.. an hour or so in the wind is a great stress reliever..

Edited June 15, 2017 by MackTheFinger
adding content

[Hubler13f]

4 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said:

That's the right attitude. Be careful, though; I have projects I walked away from decades ago.. I'll get to them all one of these days..  That Heritage might need the wheels rotated, too.. an hour or so in the wind is a great stress reliever..

Yeah, the IHC KB1 I posted was bought in August 2011, I walked away from it after the entire chassis was done, motor trans and rear end installed, 2 inch chop was done all within 6 months, now I get to it once in a while, i should have kept on it while i had the motivation.

The wife and I love to ride, we don't get to it very often now with 3 young kids there is always something going on.

Also I used the 3/8 angle and plate trick on my outdoor boiler. It froze and cracked so i plated it, along with about 3 tubes of red RTV and it hasn't given me a problem since.

[Merle Coggins]

Might be time for a new tool... Someone posted this gizmo a few weeks ago and I've saved it. I might end up getting one some day...

https://www.theoriginalrescuebit.com/collections/most-popular/products/1-4-x-3-double-end-drill-point

[Hubler13f]

10 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

Might be time for a new tool... Someone posted this gizmo a few weeks ago and I've saved it. I might end up getting one some day...

https://www.theoriginalrescuebit.com/collections/most-popular/products/1-4-x-3-double-end-drill-point

My luck I would break that baby off in the block too. Thanks though, I went and spent about $100 for hard bits, left hand bits, and easy outs yesterday, so if that thing works as the testimonials said, it might be worth it.