HanksB3B Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Neat Trick ! Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted October 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Well, back to the original topic... I got a few minutes with it this afternoon. First off, as I suspected, the battery was kaput. I put my battery load tester on it and it initially showed around 5-1/2 volts. Then I hit the load switch and it dropped to Zero. It crept back up around 2 volts after I removed the load. So out came the 8 year old Farm & Fleet battery and dropped in a new one. (I planned ahead) I was then able to start it, but it cranked like it had a dead hole and once it started it was still running rough. I pulled plug wires, one at a time, and there was no noticeable change when I pulled #5 and #6. I then pulled the plugs and found the electrode gone on #6. The rest looked OK. So out came the compression gauge. 0 on #6 75 on #5 95 on #4 110 on #3 115 on #2 120 on #1 I'm wondering if the valves on 4-6 were/are a bit tight and maybe I burned up one on #6. Hopefully tomorrow I can pull the inner fender and valve covers and have a look. Stay tuned for more... Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd B Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 My dad always used Fleet Farm batteries and loved them, I assume they are the same as your Southern Farm & Fleet but not sure. Many years ago I used Fleet Farm batteries with my construction equipment and had terrible luck so I switched to Interstate batteries and I have very few problems with them. This is way over my head but would low voltage cause the spark plug to do that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Evans Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Maybe that electrode is pinched in one of the #6 valves seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 ...Farm & Fleet battery.... Interstate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Maybe that electrode is pinched in one of the #6 valves seats. Interesting theory, Reg. Something to ponder. Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Any blow by with the oil fill cap removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Update... This morning I got access to the valve covers and pulled them off. #6 exhaust valve was extremely tight. Less than .005" cold. The intake valve was a little tight too. I opened up the gap on all valves to .014" cold. The front 3 cylinders were good. The back 3 were all a bit on the tight side. Installed 6 new spark plugs and fired it up. It settled into a nice smooth idle. I used my infrared thermometer to check the exhaust manifold temps and it showed me that all 6 were firing and heating up equally. It was running good again. I then did another compression test. #1 - 115 psi #2 - 110 psi #3 - 100 psi #4 - 105 psi #5 - 105 psi #6 - 70 psi. Looks like I may have a damaged valve sealing surface on #6 if Reg's theory is correct and the spark plug electrode got into the valve seat. Maybe this winter I'll pull the head and valves for inspection. But for now it's driveable. So I buttened it up, loaded up Dexter and went for a little test drive. It's running strong again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Dodger Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Looking at the pics and numbers you posted Merle, I have a few thoughts about your engine which is about 2,150 miles away. Sparkplug #6 looks like it was a worn plug....got its but kicked...lost the electrode ....scratched the cylinder wall.....chipped the valve and is left on the road somewhere on West Main St...... The oil snuck by....oil soaked the #6 plug and over loaded the rest of the plugs. The Battery may have just been one of those things that happened independently of the spark plug deal. I feel for you my friend....but I know you will get fixed. Wish I was there to lean on the fender and help you out. Why are 5 and 6 a bit rusty? Water past the hood hinges? Maybe plug boots are needed? 48D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 I am curious as to what would have caused a plug to lose an electrode? I don't think it is all that common to see something like this with what looks like no damage to the insulator. The only time I have ever seen anything like this was on an air cooled m/c that was running way too lean. And in that case the electrode melted out. Doesn't seem likely here. I doubt that these plugs had all that many miles on them so what would have caused this? Is it an isolated manufacturing flaw? Or was there an incident like severe detonation that contributed to this failure? Jeff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Mendes Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 "Looks like I may have a damaged valve sealing surface on #6 if Reg's theory is correct and the spark plug electrode got into the valve seat" Merle,I was thinking and saw that this theory is more probably in the INTAKE seat valve,not for exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) I have to wonder if my tight valve clearances were the cause of my running hot under heavy load, and the backfiring that would ensue during that time. My thoughts are that under heavy load, and high exhaust temps, the valves would expand enough to remove all valve lash and wouldn't close completely. This would lead to loss of compression and possible combustion exiting through the exhaust port, or back into the intake, causing the backfires I would hear. This happened again that night, but the power never returned when I removed the load and allowed it to cool down. I have to think that those backfires damaged that plug somehow. I think #5 was damaged too, but didn't loose it's electrode, as it also didn't change how the engine ran when unplugged. I don't know that I've ever seen that type of spark plug failure. I thought about detonation causing it, and that may be the case, but I still think my miss-adjusted valves was the root cause. I probably won't have a chance to go for a major test drive to know for sure until next summer. Right now my main concern is finishing a few projects on my house so that I can put it on the market and continue my migration north to my New home. Maybe once I get settled in I'll have some time over the winter to pull the head and inspect things for serious damage. At that time I can then do a proper valve adjustment, Hot. I also notice I have a small coolant leak that will need to be investigated. There's always something to tinker with on these old vehicles. Maybe that's part of the charm for a professional wrench turner who doesn't turn wrenches for a living anymore. Tim, I'll let you know when I get to that point. You can come lean on the fender with me. As for the rusty plugs... yes, water likes to pool in the spark plug cups when it rains, or when I wash the truck. It doesn't seem to bother anything, except for the cosmetic look of the plugs, so I just live with it for now. Maybe someday I'll find a set of those boots that cover the cups, but it's not high on my priority list. Merle Edited October 19, 2015 by Merle Coggins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 You are probably right Merle about the valve adjustment thing. I think a lot of adjustments on older low compression engines don't want to be too fine. I have seen a few plugs damaged like that ....but they have come out of air cooled two strokes. Detonation at high temps can definitely cause this. This certainly isn't something you would expect to see in one of these old trucks. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 the last time I saw a spark plug lose an electrode was on my John Deere 425 with the Kawasaki 2cyl. It had developed a startup problem that took me over 5 years to diagnose because it was so intermittent...one day it would fire right up, another day it would take a lot of cranking with a backfire after cranking before it would fire. Each year, the problem would get progressively worse, but no easy fix from diagnosis was apparent from the shop manual. I had narrowed it down to a couple of safety start switches that would pass their diagnostic tests, but after the engine stopped running one evening and I had to drag the machine onto a trailer to get it home, I took a shot & replaced both of the switches and, lo & behold, the problem went away. Evidently, the original switches, when they got to be around 17 yrs old, were corroding internally, and the heat & vibration from operation would vary their effectiveness. Anyhow, the Champion plugs didn't fare too well from the intermittent backfires at startup, as one electrode was badly burned and the other lost the electrode and a good chunk of the porcelain. NGKs only needed to be re-gapped every few hours after I would notice the gradual power loss when climbing hills. I rebuilt the motor a couple of years after solving the long cranking + backfire problem to replace the nylon timing geared camshaft with a steel geared camshaft, and I was not able to locate any damage from the electrode loss. After over 100 hrs of operation on the rebuild, the engine is more powerful than when I bought the machine 15 yrs ago, is good on gas & does not leak or burn oil, so I am inclined to think that the debris was blown out of the combustion chamber uneventfully. As for the rusty spark plugs, I've had the '48 & '49 parked inside a pole barn and the plugs would get rusty. My assumption, from what I saw on humid, cool mornings, was that condensation was the cause for the rust on the plugs. The porcelain would stay cold as the humid day would warm, condensation would form on the porcelain to the point where it would puddle while the heads appeared to sweat, the moisture would boil off in the afternoon heat, exposing the new rust, then nighttime cooling would start the process all over again. As long as the plugs were working, I figured this was normal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted December 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) Continuing with this issue... I haven't driven the truck since the previous posted test drive as it is essentially parked for the winter. However, based on finmad's experience with his vacuum advance I remembered that I forgot to test mine when I did the other work. I had a chance to test it a couple weeks ago and found that it was shot. I couldn't pull any vacuum with my vacuum pump. I have another distributor, that I acquired recently to use for a possible Petronix conversion, so I checked that one as well. That one worked OK but possibly had a small vacuum leak. It may have been my hose connection from the pump, but I figured it was old and suspect anyway. I removed both advance units and based on the lead from finmad I contacted Kanter and had a couple "new" units shipped to me. They arrived today and some time over the winter I will get them installed. First the original distributor for a test run, then maybe the converted one for comparison. But I'll still have my original as a backup. Anyway... does anyone have a clue as to the numbers stamped on the control rod? On my old, bad, one there is an "8" stamped on it, the the other old one has what appears to be a "6" or a "9" in a circle. The new ones are stamped "8" and "7" respectively, but they are stamped on the opposite side of the rod. They can't have anything to do with the spring settings as the new ones come without springs and shims. The end caps and associated parts need to be swapped from the old ones. Could they just be batch number ID's? Curious... Merle Edited December 8, 2015 by Merle Coggins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted December 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) blank post Edited December 8, 2015 by Merle Coggins 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent B3B Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 Merle hope you don’t mind me recycling this thread title I to have been stranded. Last year at the BBQ…. lucky for me, I was in good company with my forum brothers trying to help figure out why the B4D wouldn’t start. I remember you, Rod, John and Mark and others helping me try and figure “why”.... I remember even Davin holding Marks beer while Mark helped. Fast forward to yesterday driving my B3HH. Made it to the black top after feeling confident my fresh (two year old, driven 4 miles) tune up (points, plugs, condenser, plug wires) would get me down the road. Oh, and I changed the wiring and installed a rebuilt carb and this happened. It just died! I had to shut off the recording because nobody wants to hear a grown man cry. My first instinct was to compression start as I was still rolling -- it wouldn’t I stopped in the middle of the road, tried to start it- nothing – getting gas, must be my brand new battery…. I had been having trouble with my “amp” meter not reading anything. got a ride home and charged the battery – turns over awesome but – NOTHING! Ended up loading it up (a fiasco in itself) and towing it back home (so glad I bought this trailer this year!) Got it home, did some troubleshooting and drove him off the trailer. My troubleshooting = 1.) Checked for fuel supply at the carb -- check 2.) Removed coil wire check for spark – nada 3.) Replaced the coil – still nada 4.) Removed the ignition wire and coil wire from the starter and jumped a wire directly from the battery to the coil – BINGO! Sorry for the lengthy story but, if it can help someone in the future I am glad to be the stooge Morel of the story, try not to get frustrated, don’t give up, don't rule out the ignition switch itself and don’t think just one come-a- long will get a 10,000lb truck on the trailer 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 Ignition switches, Brent, that is why I have a toggle switch. I have the ignition switch in the dash, but it's not connected to anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 12 hours ago, Brent B3B said: Merle hope you don’t mind me recycling this thread title I to have been stranded. Last year at the BBQ…. lucky for me, I was in good company with my forum brothers trying to help figure out why the B4D wouldn’t start. I remember you, Rod, John and Mark and others helping me try and figure “why”.... I remember even Davin holding Marks beer while Mark helped. Fast forward to yesterday driving my B3HH. Made it to the black top after feeling confident my fresh (two year old, driven 4 miles) tune up (points, plugs, condenser, plug wires) would get me down the road. Oh, and I changed the wiring and installed a rebuilt carb and this happened. It just died! I had to shut off the recording because nobody wants to hear a grown man cry. My first instinct was to compression start as I was still rolling -- it wouldn’t I stopped in the middle of the road, tried to start it- nothing – getting gas, must be my brand new battery…. I had been having trouble with my “amp” meter not reading anything. got a ride home and charged the battery – turns over awesome but – NOTHING! Ended up loading it up (a fiasco in itself) and towing it back home (so glad I bought this trailer this year!) Got it home, did some troubleshooting and drove him off the trailer. My troubleshooting = 1.) Checked for fuel supply at the carb -- check 2.) Removed coil wire check for spark – nada 3.) Replaced the coil – still nada 4.) Removed the ignition wire and coil wire from the starter and jumped a wire directly from the battery to the coil – BINGO! Sorry for the lengthy story but, if it can help someone in the future I am glad to be the stooge Morel of the story, try not to get frustrated, don’t give up, don't rule out the ignition switch itself and don’t think just one come-a- long will get a 10,000lb truck on the trailer Julie just didn't push it on the trailer? Trust me, I know about trying to push and pull the bigger trucks around on hills, trailers and just on plain flat surfaces... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pflaming Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 Ggdad, Its very possible that Julie already, at times, pulls Brent's chain! LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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