41/53dodges Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Good morning from snowed in Platteville! As per usual, ive got a crazy idea and the local hunkyard has a cummins. Problem being I cant find anything online about em! Could anyone share any wisdom about em? The motor I'm looking at is a c175. Some places say governor is 2200 and others 2800, cummins seems to think its a 6bt... Thanks guys, and feel free to share stories too! Quote
wayfarer Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) So, what is the crazy idea?? The web is loaded with Cummins info, you'll likely get into information overload. The c175 label comes back as an industrial package. Be prepared for a 1200lb engine if it is a 6bt. Edited February 2, 2015 by wayfarer Quote
MartinsB3B Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 I would go with a pre 1993,this gives you no computer to deal with plus its a 12 valve. Half year from 98 and back are all 12 valve. Good strong engines, I planned on putting a 12 valve in a 37 dodge I had, could get one from a buddy for around $750-$1000. Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Well I would have to bet that anyone that has read my posts in the past is probably bashing their heads on their desk by now, but I have a 41' WF32 sitting around, some awesome axles, and my friends down at the scrapyard have this C175 out of an old grader sitting around, why not put em together? I would love to put together a truck like the one in the picture, give it a diesel, maybe even go bonkers with 4x4. there is just something cool about vintage diesels, nothing against 6BTs and 24 valves. Anyway, the C175 is best defined at the 6BT's older brother, from about the 60-70s. The block is actually a couple inches shorter than the later models too. I guess it was in great shape when the grader rolled over back in the day, almost killed the operator. But that's why it is there. I'm just wondering if anybody can give me any pointers on these beasts? Edited February 2, 2015 by 41/53dodges 1 Quote
Merle Coggins Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Josh, I went digging through our engine manual archives, here at work, and found these. An Operation and Maintenance manual from 1961, a Parts Manual from 1960, and a "newer" Operators Manual from '65. Edited February 2, 2015 by Merle Coggins Quote
Merle Coggins Posted February 2, 2015 Report Posted February 2, 2015 Went digging some more and found a Shop Manual. This one from 1977 I think my biggest worry would be parts availability. I recall that we were working on a J-Series engine, of about the same vintage, many years ago and had difficulty getting some parts. Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Posted February 3, 2015 Dang it Merle, I'm gonna be wiping drool off my desk for weeks now! If my friend's story is correct, that was a pretty low hour motor back when they brought it in. It was in a Galeon grader from about the 60's, the operator rolled it over going across the side of a hill, which nearly killed the operator and wrecked most of the grader, but the power unit here is perfectly intact. My only concern would be how long it ran upside-down if at all, I'm not sure how these old PT pumps reacted to that. I did notice that the exhaust manifold is cracked in a spot, but I suppose I could build a tube manifold like moose does if it comes down to it Quote
greg g Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 Go to emac.com they have a performance chart for the engine you mentioned. I put Cummins c175 into Google and this site came up about fifth or sixth on the list. 400+ milligrams is listedweight for this industrial engine. Quote
1941Rick Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 Go to emac.com they have a performance chart for the engine you mentioned. I put Cummins c175 into Google and this site came up about fifth or sixth on the list. 400+ milligrams is listedweight for this industrial engine. That should be Kilograms......... Quote
Dave72dt Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 With fuel and air, it'll run upside down for as long as the brgs hold out. If you can't turn it over, walk away from it. I suspect you can easily find a more modern diesel for far less than the cost of rebuilding the bottom end on that one. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 educate me to some degree...what transmission are you planning to run with the C175 donor engine...and other peripheral devices...did you ever finish the trailer project Quote
Merle Coggins Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) The PT pump is a pretty simple device. Being upside down shouldn't bother it. I'd be more worried about lack of lubrication with no oil being pumped through it. If you can crank it over all you need is power to the starter and a fuel supply to the pump. There should be an override screw on the front of the shut off solenoid of the pump so you wouldn't even need to power that up. See if it'll start and run. However, I believe Tim's point is that it'll have an industrial bell housing. What kind of transmission do you expect to be able to mate up to it? Being in a motor grader it likely has a clutch, but beyond that what'll fit? Edited February 3, 2015 by Merle Coggins 1 Quote
ggdad1951 Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 I would go with a pre 1993,this gives you no computer to deal with plus its a 12 valve. Half year from 98 and back are all 12 valve. Good strong engines, I planned on putting a 12 valve in a 37 dodge I had, could get one from a buddy for around $750-$1000. TOOD is getting a '94 6bt...still not TOO computered up and a good solid engine. Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Posted February 3, 2015 educate me to some degree...what transmission are you planning to run with the C175 donor engine...and other peripheral devices...did you ever finish the trailer project Believe it or not I actually use the trailer on a pretty regular basis, thing makes a very comfortable cabin up in the woods! Now for the educational part, let me break out the chalk board and big cheezy mustache! Merle is correct, these industrial motors use special bellhousings. They use an SAE system that is common between many manufacturers. For instance, look at this table. This bellhousing would be the same as many others, including everything from modern diesels back to some of our beloved giant flatheads like the 413. This allowed for engines to readily interchange between manufacturers, with the only limitation being exactly which SAE size you have, which is dependent on the particular engines power ratings. But to answer the question, there is a lovely 5 speed still attached to the blown up power unit next to it, which coincidentally is also a cummins. I would love a 6BT but those things demand a premium around here, a junker out of a bread truck is about $2000 without the trans, I guess there is a builder around here somewhere buying them up like they're going out of style! The difference is that my friends here tend to favor me to the engine builders. Quote
timkingsbury Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 Well I would have to bet that anyone that has read my posts in the past is probably bashing their heads on their desk by now, but I have a 41' WF32 sitting around, some awesome axles, and my friends down at the scrapyard have this C175 out of an old grader sitting around, why not put em together? I would love to put together a truck like the one in the picture, give it a diesel, maybe even go bonkers with 4x4. there is just something cool about vintage diesels, nothing against 6BTs and 24 valves. Anyway, the C175 is best defined at the 6BT's older brother, from about the 60-70s. The block is actually a couple inches shorter than the later models too. I guess it was in great shape when the grader rolled over back in the day, almost killed the operator. But that's why it is there. I'm just wondering if anybody can give me any pointers on these beasts? So what is it that you would like to know ? You have the 1st gen body style and less HP in the cummins, then it has increased over time. I have 3 Dodge trucks with Cummins Diesels in them. The last with is a 1998 is still a 12 valve, a pump you can play without all the electronics and makes for easier conversions. The you hit 24 valve engines and you can do some mods to get those engines to work without the electronics. I am of course talking the 6 cylinder engines. I also see guys taking the 4 cylinder cummins that were in some cube vans with automatics and use them as well. There are a couple of routes you can take. Take your older truck and start upgrading it to handle the engine and transmission. That route has a few challenges including brakes and the weight of the engine does tend to take its toll on the front end. The second route is you take the cab and box off of a newer Dodge and put an older truck body on the newer truck. The 1st one I did I took the old truck and new drive train approach, and the last 1 I did, I took a 1998 4wd with a 5 speed standard and put on the older body and a love box on it. My 3rd cummins is as it came from Dodge... so its new new style. I would like to do a 4wd and put a pre-1968 round cab powerwagon on it to use it as a pulling truck to haul our dragster with. I just haven't found the right truck for it. In my part of the woods, I keep my eyes open for a Dodge (with a cummins) that has been in an accident with sheet metal only damage. I usually see them after the winter with insurance companies have written them off and put them up for auction. There are some issues with branded titles (ownerships) from state to state and province to province I realize. I do know in Ontario, the 1st one I did the 1937 Fargo ownership/Title is what I used, however the next one I was not technically allowed to do that. In other places I am told I would have been able to use the older title. Happy to talk to you further if your interested. Tim Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Tim, I see what you are saying here but I don't think weight is a huge issue with this truck (1.5 ton truck) Now what isn't particularly easy to find out is how exactly to operate these motors. It's not a standard 6BT, the C175 is an older engine from about the 60-70's that actually relates to the new 6.7's in a twisted way,except It is fully mechanical and uses a PT pump. For instance, detroits like to be pegged and are super picky about oil, that's the kind of info I'm after. Basically, are they good motors when theyre working? Edited February 3, 2015 by 41/53dodges Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 Thanks for showing that SAE Bell Housing chart! I never knew of this info. The Dodge 1950- 1956 four ton trucks use the SAE bell housing with a Clark 290 transmission on both the 377 and 413 flathead engines . I measured the bell housing on the 413 I just got to see if the chart worked and sure enough.... Quote
Merle Coggins Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) One other thought... Does it have a Speed Limiting Governor (throttle lever in the middle of the pump) or a Variable Speed Governor (lever toward the rear either up high or down low depending on governor style)? Being in a motor grader I would suspect it would have a Variable Speed Governor, which is good for maintaining a constant speed regardless of load. For use in a vehicle you would want a Speed Limiting Governor which just limits the maximum RPM and is better suited for automotive type use. Merle Edited February 3, 2015 by Merle Coggins Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 41/53dodges, on 02 Feb 2015 - 10:04 PM, said: Believe it or not I actually use the trailer on a pretty regular basis, thing makes a very comfortable cabin up in the woods! Now for the educational part, let me break out the chalk board and big cheezy mustache! Merle is correct, these industrial motors use special bellhousings. They use an SAE system that is common between many manufacturers. For instance, look at this table. This bellhousing would be the same as many others, including everything from modern diesels back to some of our beloved giant flatheads like the 413. This allowed for engines to readily interchange between manufacturers, with the only limitation being exactly which SAE size you have, which is dependent on the particular engines power ratings. But to answer the question, there is a lovely 5 speed still attached to the blown up power unit next to it, which coincidentally is also a cummins. I would love a 6BT but those things demand a premium around here, a junker out of a bread truck is about $2000 without the trans, I guess there is a builder around here somewhere buying them up like they're going out of style! The difference is that my friends here tend to favor me to the engine builders. It is good you have done some research before buying the parts....some do not consider what will be needed till after the fact. I am also happy to hear the camper and home made stove are getting used...good luck on getting your components together.. Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) This one has the lever on the side, can't say I have seen a pt pump any other way, but I dont get to hang around too many diesels. And Tim, I'm a student, all I do is research! Edited February 3, 2015 by 41/53dodges Quote
Merle Coggins Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) The lever is on the side either way. Here is the Speed Limiting type of that vintage. (what you want) And this would be the Variable Speed type. (what you DON'T want) Edited February 3, 2015 by Merle Coggins Quote
41/53dodges Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Posted February 3, 2015 Well if that's the case it looks like I have a winner! The lever attaches just like the first picture, on the side just under where it says cummins. it looks like somebody could convert one pretty easily if they could find the parts around too, they look similar except the button cover and the throttle lever housing Quote
wayfarer Posted February 3, 2015 Report Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Excellent info guys. In the FWIW department, the 51-53 Chrysler Hemi (the extended block version) uses the SAE-3 bolt pattern and adapters are available for various transmissions...... Edited February 3, 2015 by wayfarer Quote
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