55 Fargo Posted January 24, 2015 Author Report Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) ... Edited May 12, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire Quote
Tim Keith Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) A man named Julian Stahl can take an 18 horsepower Kohler flathead and make more than 100 horsepower with it. The Chrysler six cylinder L-heads are probably better designs. Mr Stahl manufacturers many of the components himself, even casting strengthened cast iron blocks. Its just a lawn mower engine to most people, but Stahl far exceeds the expectations. I think he might have gotten more than 100 hp from simple L-heads. I don't think he experiences much parts breakage. The 1953-69 Harley Davidson KR is also an impressive L-head. There is a lot of potential in the Chrysler flatheads, no doubt about that. Edited January 24, 2015 by Tim Keith 3 Quote
TodFitch Posted January 24, 2015 Report Posted January 24, 2015 This thread has been veering way to close to being locked and having posts deleted. . . Please folks, if you are feeling picked upon, angry or otherwise snippy then just step away from the keyboard for a while. 5 Quote
Robert Horne Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 So which year did the stock 230 have the most power? I mean my 50 has 103 hp, didn't it go up to some 130 hp before they dropped it? What were the changes? Are those parts available? Was it just a cam and compression? My spare engine is from a 1956 Dodge. Listed at around 132hp. Big jump from my 80hp engine in my 38 Coupe. This photo is the intake after I spent some time on it. 2 Quote
BigDaddyO Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 My spare engine is from a 1956 Dodge. Listed at around 132hp. Big jump from my 80hp engine in my 38 Coupe. This photo is the intake after I spent some time on it. Wow! I never saw a car with the intake mounted to the trunk like that. 3 Quote
Frank Elder Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 It's that super secret "guvmint" engine mounted in the trunk...... 1 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 25, 2015 Report Posted January 25, 2015 after Tucker went tits up he decided to play with a rear engine Plymouth..hey...it could have happened (...my time to grandstand...) 2 Quote
50plymouth Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 Well, i have one of the more modified street 230's on this forum, but since it has not been either raced or dynoed I didn't feel I could contribute anything to the thread, so I stayed out of it. But I have known Don for a long time, and thought his points were valid. If that bruises your ego, so be it. Marty Marty - I for one would like to hear about your 230. I don't care if your guessing at its horsepower or if its been dyno'd. Id put my car up against an Echo if the driver looked slow to react at the lights however that's it for racing. You will therefore have a faster car I am sure. I thought this forum was for guys telling us what they had done and have fun with it. I was excited by this topic, but sad to see the stock guys trying to rain on the parade. I wont be driving hundreds of miles a day. I don't care if it uses tons of gas. I only drive my car a few thousand a summer. If this is just about guys demanding dyno reports and drag racing tickets to post without getting attacked then this forum is not for me. I would however like to hear about your modified 230 because I will certainly learn something. 2 Quote
50plymouth Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 A man named Julian Stahl can take an 18 horsepower Kohler flathead and make more than 100 horsepower with it. The Chrysler six cylinder L-heads are probably better designs. Mr Stahl manufacturers many of the components himself, even casting strengthened cast iron blocks. Its just a lawn mower engine to most people, but Stahl far exceeds the expectations. I think he might have gotten more than 100 hp from simple L-heads. I don't think he experiences much parts breakage. The 1953-69 Harley Davidson KR is also an impressive L-head. There is a lot of potential in the Chrysler flatheads, no doubt about that. At the risk of being jumped here. where can I learn more about that mr stahl is doing. My 10 year old grandson has a massey ferguson garden tractor that we have built to pull at local pulls in New York State. We have bored and put in a 360 piston in it. We got that idea from one guy willing to share info. But everyone guards everything around here and were newbees. We have a single cyl class so even 50 hp out of a Kohler would put a big smile on a kid. My grandson might smile as too. maybe send me a note. Quote
55 Fargo Posted January 26, 2015 Author Report Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) ... Edited May 12, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire 1 Quote
Tim Keith Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 I'm more of the toitoise than the hare, but wouldn't oiling system improvements for 6,000 RPM also work well for a daily driver? Quote
martybose Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) I'm more of the toitoise than the hare, but wouldn't oiling system improvements for 6,000 RPM also work well for a daily driver? The biggest oiling system improvement for our flatheads is adding a full flow oil filter. A bit of searching should find details of the easiest method that involves drilling a couple of holes in the block above the oil pump. I did mine differently by using a modified hydrive engine oil pump and eliminating the crossover pipe in the oil pan; my oil goes from the pump to an external oil filter and pressure regulator, then across the back of the firewall and back into the block where the original pressure regulator used to be. My way requires modifications to the block, the oil pan and the oil pump, and doesn't gain much over the less complicated way of doing it. 50plymouth had asked for details on the rest of my engine. I think the only stock parts in it are the crankshaft, the lifters and the valvesprings. The rods are stock ones that have had the sides ground down, polished and balanced. The pistons are custom forged 9 to 1 Venolias using a modern Toyota ring set. The block was bored to piston size using a torque plate that we made for it. All of the ports in the block were smoothed out and matched to the gasket size. It has bronze valve guides with cut down Chevy V-8 valves for both intake and exhaust. The cam is a mild regrind, the head is a polished Edmunds. Intake is a polished Edmunds with Carter-Weber carbs on Stovebolt adapters with a homemade air cleaner based on an O'Brien Trucking top cover. The throttle linkage I made using an extruded aluminum mount with pillow bearings and anodized aluminum arms. Exhaust is handled by a set of cast iron headers into a 2 inch dual exhaust system. ignition is the Stovebolt HEI. I've no idea of actual horsepower, but I'd guess at maybe 150 or so. It's a fun drive, and I love the reactions I get when people see it. Marty Edited January 26, 2015 by martybose 7 Quote
50plymouth Posted January 26, 2015 Report Posted January 26, 2015 The biggest oiling system improvement for our flatheads is adding a full flow oil filter. A bit of searching should find details of the easiest method that involves drilling a couple of holes in the block above the oil pump. I did mine differently by using a modified hydrive engine oil pump and eliminating the crossover pipe in the oil pan; my oil goes from the pump to an external oil filter and pressure regulator, then across the back of the firewall and back into the block where the original pressure regulator used to be. My way requires modifications to the block, the oil pan and the oil pump, and doesn't gain much over the less complicated way of doing it. 50plymouth had asked for details on the rest of my engine. I think the only stock parts in it are the crankshaft, the lifters and the valvesprings. The rods are stock ones that have had the sides ground down, polished and balanced. The pistons are custom forged 9 to 1 Venolias using a modern Toyota ring set. The block was bored to piston size using a torque plate that we made for it. All of the ports in the block were smoothed out and matched to the gasket size. It has bronze valve guides with cut down Chevy V-8 valves for both intake and exhaust. The cam is a mild regrind, the head is a polished Edmunds. Intake is a polished Edmunds with Carter-Weber carbs on Stovebolt adapters with a homemade air cleaner based on an O'Brien Trucking top cover. The throttle linkage I made using an extruded aluminum mount with pillow bearings and anodized aluminum arms. Exhaust is handled by a set of cast iron headers into a 2 inch dual exhaust system. ignition is the Stovebolt HEI. I've no idea of actual horsepower, but I'd guess at maybe 150 or so. It's a fun drive, and I love the reactions I get when people see it. Marty thanks Marty, that's what I am talking about. thank you. sorry for dumb questions that follow. rods ground down is that to reduce weight ? custom forged venolias with modern Toyota rings. is there someone you can buy those ? 20 years ago I could find forged and cast pistons. Now I don't see forged and not much in cast even. whats a torque plate ? got any pictures of your air cleaners. I cant picture them but they sound cool. 1 Quote
48Dodger Posted January 27, 2015 Report Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) A torque plate is a tool. Its used to simulate the torque an engine head causes to the engine block (ie cylinder walls). The plate allows the machinist's clyinder hone to pass through it to cut the the cylinders via holes in the plate. Some feel it is needed most when building a race motor, but not so much for a daily driver. When RPMs and compression matter the most...you use every relivant tool in the ol' tool box. 48D Edited January 27, 2015 by 48dodger 2 Quote
martybose Posted January 27, 2015 Report Posted January 27, 2015 A torque plate is a tool. Its used to simulate the torque an engine head causes to the engine block (ie cylinder walls). The plate allows the machinist's clyinder hone to pass through it to cut the the cylinders via holes in the plate. Some feel it is needed most when building a race motor, but not so much for a daily driver. When RPMs and compression matter the most...you use every relivant tool in the ol' tool box. 48D Agreed, I probably didn't need to use one, but the shop that I hung around in for a quarter of a century manufactured them, so it just cost me the material to make one for myself. It did kind of surprise the shop that did the boring when an old flathead block showed up with a torque plate installed! Marty 3 Quote
martybose Posted January 27, 2015 Report Posted January 27, 2015 thanks Marty, that's what I am talking about. thank you. sorry for dumb questions that follow. rods ground down is that to reduce weight ? custom forged venolias with modern Toyota rings. is there someone you can buy those ? 20 years ago I could find forged and cast pistons. Now I don't see forged and not much in cast even. whats a torque plate ? got any pictures of your air cleaners. I cant picture them but they sound cool. The rods were ground down and polished to eliminate any stress risers that could lead to problems. Like the torque plate, totally unnecessary for a street motor, but all it took was time to do it that way, and I know that they are there! I'll see about posting a picture of my engine when I get back to my other computer. Marty Quote
Don Coatney Posted January 27, 2015 Report Posted January 27, 2015 martybose, on 26 Jan 2015 - 11:50 AM, said: The biggest oiling system improvement for our flatheads is adding a full flow oil filter. Marty It should be noted that on some (but not all) long block Chrysler and Desoto engines there are factory provisions for installing a full flow oil filter. If the engine block has the raised diamond shaped "boss" (as seen in this photo to the right of the distributor on my engine that I built) it is possible to convert to a full flow filter with minor modifications. If the engine has a filter housing as seen in the second picture then most likely no modifications are required and it has the full flow oil filtering system in place. martybose, on 27 Jan 2015 - 12:17 PM, said: I'll see about posting a picture of my engine when I get back to my other computer. Marty Here is a photo of Marty's engine. I have had the pleasure of seeing this car up close and personal and being treated to a ride. It runs as good as it looks. 1 Quote
Andydodge Posted January 27, 2015 Report Posted January 27, 2015 Nice engine Marty........you are also running ARP head studs, every little bit helps......always good to go hunt some Frods.......btw am curious where those plug wire separators are from?........very nice all round.......andyd Quote
Don Coatney Posted January 27, 2015 Report Posted January 27, 2015 As long as this thread is about big modifications how can we forget this full race "SPITSFIRE" head created by Reg Evans??? Makes more horse power sitting still than some engines make running 2 Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 27, 2015 Report Posted January 27, 2015 little artistic liberty here....works for me... 1 Quote
martybose Posted January 28, 2015 Report Posted January 28, 2015 The pictures that Don posted of my engine is a very early version of it; since then the head has been polished, a lot more parts got powder coated, and there have been several different ignition systems tried. The plug wire separators were something I found in a hot rod catalog, I don't remember the vender. In those photos on the right inner fender you can see a part of my oiling system starting with the orange kevlar-covered oil line coming up from the oil pump and going into an oil filter. You can't seen the oil pressure regulator behind the carbs (a sprint car motor part!) and in the first picture you can just see the black pipe running across the engine compartment to the left side of the engine. I'm particularly proud of the throttle linkage, which cost a rediculous amount of money but works really well. Marty Quote
55 Fargo Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) .... Edited May 12, 2017 by 55 Fargo Spitfire 2 Quote
martybose Posted January 28, 2015 Report Posted January 28, 2015 Nice engine, Marty, looks purdy and all too. Any idea what Horsepower you have now? Did you have a dyno test since all of the upgrades and rebuild? Betcha she goes too, ever have it pinned out, and if so what speed?max RPM you may have redlined with? Was it just on the highway, or on the strip? How would you compare your noticeable driving power increases as compared to the prior stock engine? Do you drive this vehicle a lot ?longer trips etc......... As I said in post #64, I'm guessing at 150 horsepower, and before that post I had commented that it has never been dynoed. I've never had the car over 80 MPH, although it does cruise nicely at that speed due to the R-10 overdrive I have. The added power makes it much nicer to drive, but I've never taken it on a long trip; I'm a little gunshy after some early mishaps before I got the fuel system all cleaned out that had me arriving home on a tow truck hook ..... Marty 2 Quote
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