Should I remove the body from the frame?

[MarcDeSoto]

I am in the middle of my restoration of a 1948 DeSoto business coupe.  I am considering taking the body off of the frame so working on the chassis will be easier.  At my age, I don't want to be rolling around on my back trying to install new gas and brake lines.  I saw the video from the Collector Car Restoration series, Vol. I Getting Started/Back on Track, done by two brothers about 20 years ago.   They show how easy it is to take the body off of a 1952 Dodge sedan.  After removing the body bolts and making all of the necessary disconnections, they just jack the body up about 6" off the frame and put an 8' 4x4 above the front and rear axles supported by 4 concrete blocks well to sides of the wheels.  Then they just roll the chassis out from under the body.  Then they lower the body onto a body cart that they made out of plywood and casters to roll where ever they want.  Has anyone ever done this, and what are the complications, if any?  Thanks, Marc.

Edited February 23, 2014 by MarcDeSoto

[mrwrstory]

Hey Marc,

You get no slack for age  

I did the same,...almost, with my P15,..by myself.  Check early in my thread "I'm back"  I think I could dig up a few more pics if you need.

Also I see Temecula.  I'll be there in a few weeks for the downtown car show.  Gonna meet a guy to swap some parts.  Maybe we connect?

Edited February 23, 2014 by mrwrstory

[Niel Hoback]

   The only "hang-up" I can see is the steering column thru the firewall. Disconnect the joint at the bottom of the pitman arm and take the gear off of the frame, pull it out the bottom. 

[Don Coatney]

If you don't want to crawl under the car to replace stuff then don't even think about removing the body. The videos always make thing look easy but they are not. Your call.

[Lumpy]

True, you might spend as much or more time crawling around underneath the car to disconnect the body from the frame, as you would....crawling around working on stuff. An alternative might be to just get the car way-up off the ground some how or another. ??? Or not.

 

ken.

[desoto1939]

also depends on what you are planning to do with the car.  Show it for awards like AACA.  rememember it is a Desoto coupe and also not a convertible.  Have you figured a total cost that you want to put into the car and then add more.

 

The hot cars are from the 60's and high performance. 

 

So its your call but only you can make the decision on what you want the car to look like.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[MarcDeSoto]

It just seems so much easier to work on the chassis with the body off.  No, I want a driver, but I want to replace the fuel and brake lines.  I don't see how taking the body off of the frame would increase costs that much.  I thought about buying a car lift, but they are too expensive to use just for a one time use.  Also are there not some body to frame rubber parts that need to be replaced.  That's a good point that Niel mentioned about the steering column.  I don't think the two brothers mentioned that.  Does everyone agree that the steering column needs to be disconnected to get the body off? 

Edited February 24, 2014 by MarcDeSoto

[Don Coatney]

There is no disconnecting. The steering gearbox/column combination must be removed.

[bamfordsgarage]

I respectfully suggest that for the work you have planned — fuel and brake lines — lifting the body from the frame is a terrible idea...

 

No time saved: All that monkeying around with body mounts (rusty & broken fasteners?), steering column removal, lifting apparatus/sling/whatever, coolant and electrical connections, etc. etc. will take longer than just getting under there and doing what you need to do.

 

More risk: Always a good chance that with unnecessary disassembly will come accidental damage and breakage. More work. More expense.

 

No driving in 2014: My money says that if you go down the road of body removal in March you won't be driving that car this summer. Not only the extra work of body R&R but also the relentless scourge of Whileyouratititis.

 

Some time ago I replaced the brake lines on my '47 Dodge D25 and, while I had no reason to replace the fuel line, I did run an accessory wiring harness to the back and did a few other jobs underneath.  I used four cheap car dollies to elevate the car with additional height added to the front two. This put the chassis at a comfortable working height with me on a creeper. However, I soon put the creeper aside, rolled out an old carpet under the car and worked off that — such luxury!

[sig]

I´ll be taking the body off soon but only because the chassis is full of rot and the lower 3 inches of body also..for me it´ll make life a lot easier.. I guess it depends on the extent of work you need to do

[chopt50wgn]

Have you checked out .....Race Ramps.............they have different height stands. I have the 12" stands that I put the car on for the winter. They have a cupped area already built in so the tire does not flat spot. Mine sits plenty high and is supported very nicely.

[Don Coatney]

A couple more thoughts. I do not know your skill level but by the fact that you have to ask this question it appears you have never done a project of this magnitude in the past. The car magazines and TV shows make everything look glamorous and easy to do as they never show the guy under the car trying to remove the body with stubborn rusted bolts and crap falling in there eyes. They never show the support bars welded inside the car to prevent the door pillars from collapsing or the roof from buckleing. Many times I have seen folks purchase an old car with grand ideas of doing a complete off frame renewal of the vehicle. First thing they do is strip the vehicle down to the frame. Once that is done they soon realize they are in over there heads and lose interest. The vehicle sits for a couple of years with no progress as they have lost interest. Then they attempt to sell the car in pieces but nobody wants to buy a vehicle in pieces. So the car ends up going to the grinder.

 

If you do remove the body do you realize how much work is involved in replacing it? The doors must be squared up and this may involve tweaking the pillars and replacing the hinge pins. The body mounts will require work and this must be done laying on your back. As has been stated the time spent laying on the floor for body removal and replacement will be much greater than the time spent for brake and fuel line replacement as that can be done in one day with good planning. But once again the choice is yours.

[Plymouthy Adams]

^{what vehicle were they working that only 8" lift was enough to remove the body from the frame by rolling out the chassis...seems all three of my Plymouths had to go quite a bit higher than that.  My wheels were off the car, steering sector removed and the dollies situated in a manner for minimum ground clearance.  I used 6 x 6 cross bucks for suspending the body.}

[mrwrstory]

I'm struck by the abundance of "cold water" directed at Marc.  I did it with no help when I was 73 years old.  First time ever.  No sagging.  No door fit issues.  How many others of us have modified a cross member, repaired a firewall or mounted a diff. engine "for the first time".    The structure is like the Rock of Gibraltar.  Turned out great.  Nada show car either but now with a solid frame, new body mounts, new paint and new plumbing.

Be advised however that a good portion of common sense and patience is required.    

Marc,....talk to me in Temecula.  

[Plymouthy Adams]

I do not think it is as much "cold water" as it is word to the wise....not all car bodies rust in the same manner but granted there are common areas prone to damage among each model.  Briggs bodies have common issues regardless of make and model. To ignore these conditions is an invitation to trouble..and while your west coast cars may not be in the condition as some of the east coast cars I personally have seen buckled rooflines for bodies that have lost their support with the loss of a good inner and outer rocker and floor damage.  Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead is definitely not a sound approach.   I personally believe that NOT advising him of the possibilities is of greater harm than silence.  I continue to remove bodies and put them back down by myself also..it is not rocket science as Bill's says but lifting the body is easily a one man job and only the wagons so far have proven to me of having no balance point along the rockers.  On my two sedan body off and with the jig I built for placement under the rocker/cross ties..the body was easily lifted from a central point on each side..the wagons requires a third support for balance

Edited February 24, 2014 by Plymouthy Adams

[Dave72dt]

Yes, it's easier to replace brake and fuel lines with the body off and no, it's not much more expensive to do so.  Body mounts can be replaced without removing the body completely from the frame.  If there is more you wish to do the chassis than just replace lines and mounts or you need better access to the bottom of the body, then yes, by all means remove it.   If that's all you intend to do,  there's no time or monetary savings in removing it.

[Eneto-55]

I lifted the body off of my 46 with a come-along in the rear (w/ a strap bolted to two angle irons which were bolted to the rear fender mount holes), and a chain hoist in the front (lifting from the hood mounts on either side).  I just think that lifting from the top is safer than jacking up underneath.  I rolled the frame out from under it, then set it on 4 15 gal. drums w/ 2/6's across at front & rear, so I could work under it.  (But I was also only 25 or so at the time.)  If you lift it high enough, you do not need to remove the steering column - I didn't.  I cleaned up the old body to frame rubber cushions and reused them.  Bad idea.  Now they have really deteriorated, and I'm going to have to unbolt the body again & lift it enough to replace them with new ones.   

[Tim Keith]

When you have removed the body from the frame you probably will continue to work on cleaning and painting the body.     Your present intention may not be preserving the car for another 70 years, but you won't stop at addressing just the frame.    My '47 DeSoto body looks solid, but I know that I'd I find problems with the body lifted off the frame.   Bolts and fittings will get replaced, all fuel and brake lines replaced.

 

I removed the box from a pretty solid pickup '70s truck that I'm working on.  That was not difficult.  Hmmm... some bed liner might be good inside the wheel wells.  Where do you stop?  Now I see that it is not so tough to address the cab.   Its like the old Lays potato chips commerical, you can't stop at just one.  If you get at this task, its not as much work as you might think to take the body off these old cars.  Its not like a jigsaw puzzle that you can't put back together if you get halfway done and get tired of it.

[Dodgeb4ya]

It is a big job to properly and safely remove the body from the frame. You need lots and lots of close up good detail pictures.! It's wise to make plenty of written notes too. I would mark and Bag all the body mount bolts as to each frame bracket they go to.

The hardest part is getting the body up high enough so you can roll the chassis W/engine from under the complete body with nose. The body needs to be higher than the engine (three and a half feet)  to be able  roll the chassis and engine out from under it if the nose is left on. Four piers of concrete blocks stacked the proper way and high enough with two 8 foot 4x6's will work as cross beams to hold the car up off the frame- do be safe. One cross beam at the rear end of the car, the other cross beam at the front of the cowl @ the front body mounts. The front end should be safe to let hang until the chassis is out from under the body. Then I would support it at the underside of the radiator yoke.

As for getting the body lifted an engine hoist can be used to jack the body up a little bit at the rear then the front and so on till it is where you need it. Same as lifting a house up-a bit at a time till you got it where you want it! Of course disconnect wiring, speedo cable, shifting linkage, remove the floor pan at the pedals, pull the steering column, temp guage ect.

It's a lot of work and if you do pull the body you will probably end up doing a heck of a lot more work seeing as everything is right there to clean, repair and paint! Meaning even tons more resto work. Maybe thats what you want!

Available tooling is what will make this type of job easy or tough. It's a huge job to start and finish-be ready for it!

I have done body off's this way and with a car lift and the quick and easy way using a backhoe.

Bob

 

[MarcDeSoto]

I just want to thank all of you who posted here giving your very sage advice!  That includes those who encouraged me as well as those who cautioned me.  Both types of comments are appreciated.  Also thanks for the guys who posted pics too.  They are great!  Thanks, Marc.

[falconvan]

You know yourself better than anyone, Mark. If you're someone who generally finishes what they start and doesn't get discouraged by things taking longer than expected, I'd do it. Cleaning up and painting the frame, underbody, and replacing the rubber mounts makes for a nice finished product but its a pretty big time commitment.