Ride,control And Handling

[Dave72dt]

Lowering and softer ride via removal of leaves has been mentioned frequently in the past.  Disassembly of the springs. and cleaning between the leaves will help if a bunch of rust has settled in, removal of wear ridges at the ends of the leaves so they slide easily over each other will also..  If you're going to retain the leaf spings, all the pivot points need to be in good condition, pins and hangers, for it to work properly and you already know that.  Teflon liners have been placed between the leaves to help them slide easier.   I would prefer using a product called SlipPlate on them, available in spray bomb or brush on.

 

Straight axle and leaf spring suspension on  the front will never give you  a truly comfortable ride since any bumps, ruts or potholes driven over with one wheel will transfer tot he other side as well.  It has it's limitations.

[TrampSteer]

I just want mine to stop jumping left and right.

[Dave72dt]

I just want mine to stop jumping left and right.

Once again, every component of the suspension and steering needs to be in good condition.  If unable to find someone capable of checking and adjusting the alignment, at least check the toe.  Swap over to radial tires if running bias ply. 

[55 Fargo]

Went out and picked up about 400 lbs of softener salt, that with the 100 lb of other items in the back of the truck, rides smooths out a lot, nut not a cure.

I also was cruising 60-65 mph, against a wind, and truck handles it easily.

Looking forward to refurbishing these springs and lowering truck a bit....

[William Davey]

Fargo - in one of your earlier posts you mentioned checking the speedometer with a GPS. Since you also mention 3:23 rear axle ratio in your truck, have you checked your speedometer against a GPS? Are you really driving 60-65 or maybe significantly faster?

[55 Fargo]

Fargo - in one of your earlier posts you mentioned checking the speedometer with a GPS. Since you also mention 3:23 rear axle ratio in your truck, have you checked your speedometer against a GPS? Are you really driving 60-65 or maybe significantly faster?

I have a GPS plugged into my lighter at all times, so yes my speed and RPM on tach are accurate. My truck is 12 volts too...

BTW Mr Davey, what engine and trans are you running, how do you find your truck on the highway? What speed do you like to cruise at on the highway?

Edited April 9, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[Jeff Balazs]

I am not totally convinced that an owner removing leafs in a rather arbitrary fashion is going to result in any significant improvements. It might make some conditions feel less harsh but what does it do to the steering geometry and overall handling? I have known a lot of fellows that went out and bought trucks and then started messing about with the ride height and other suspension elements and it has almost always been detrimental in the long run. And those examples were all modern trucks that had supposedly good aftermarket support.

 

In the case of what we have to work with I think it makes sense to find a specialist shop that really knows solid axle front ends. Someone that is willing and able to go through all the steps required to be certain that it is all working and adjusted as it should be. Someone who actually knows what springing revisions or changes work. And what shocks perform the best for this set up. I am probably in the minority here but I don't think most of us have the tools....skills....and money to complete this successfully on our own. As far as I am concerned I won't consider my truck done until this step has been completed.

 

Jeff 

[jeffsunzeri]

I'm not much of an expert on the pilot house trucks, but I believe the chassis and suspension is very similar if not fundamentally the same as the earlier Job Rated trucks with which I am very familiar. Checking and adjusting the front end and rear suspension on these is about as simple as it gets. There is no caster/camber adjustment with the kingpin arrangement. All there is to check is toe-in and centered steering. All you need to do this is some straight edges, measuring tape and a flat floor and the factory manual.

 

At some point I wonder why you want your 60 - 70 or 80 year old vehicle to behave like a 21st century vehicle. If that's the ultimate goal, why not buy a ToyotaSanUndaiChev and take some photos of an old truck and make some vinyl wraps from the photos and put the wraps on the modern truck so it will look old and there you go.

[Plymouthy Adams]

you can with a bit of effort have the best of both worlds and at first glance none be the wiser...roads were unimproved back in their day..the ride was hard because the environment of operation was harsh.  I assure you if the road conditions of 1948 were like that of the roads today...your suspension would be finely tuned as that of the modern rig...some see no need to beat their body to death just to say they have an old truck..

 

I can see the argument of both camps...each decides what is best for them..

 

as for caster...this is not something that is adjustable at the turn of a wrench but is usually set once by a corrective bending action if needed and unless serious damage was done in an accident usually goes unchanged throughout the life of the vehicle..

[Dave72dt]

You're right to some extent. Few of us would have the skills to do an alignment or the tools to do so on a solid axle setup and perhaps not all alignment facilities do either. We can, however, do most of the prep work prior to an alignment. We can replace or repair all the worn parts, ensure the tires are properly inflated and matched by size, side to side, on each end of the truck. A good alignment shop is not going to attempt an alignment unless that's done first. Even if they don't have the tools for a solid axle, they can check the actual readings, even if you have to provide the specs and if everything is tight, can check and adjust toe.

[55 Fargo]

I'm not much of an expert on the pilot house trucks, but I believe the chassis and suspension is very similar if not fundamentally the same as the earlier Job Rated trucks with which I am very familiar. Checking and adjusting the front end and rear suspension on these is about as simple as it gets. There is no caster/camber adjustment with the kingpin arrangement. All there is to check is toe-in and centered steering. All you need to do this is some straight edges, measuring tape and a flat floor and the factory manual.

 

At some point I wonder why you want your 60 - 70 or 80 year old vehicle to behave like a 21st century vehicle. If that's the ultimate goal, why not buy a ToyotaSanUndaiChev and take some photos of an old truck and make some vinyl wraps from the photos and put the wraps on the modern truck so it will look old and there you go.

While agree with some of your statement, if everyone wanted stock, there would be no clip jobs done, and there are plenty for a a lot of reasons.

In my case I am okay with stock type set-up, but will do as some others,by making sure all components are in good working condition.

I do not believe i need 7 leaf springs up front and 6 in the rear for my usage, I will remove some, to provide for a softer ride and to lower the truck, something like PP has done.

I agree with Adams, we do not have to beat our bodies to have an old truck, looking for a happy medium, and more of an enjoyable ride.....

[Jeff Balazs]

I wouldn't ever expect this truck to behave just like a modern truck on the road. But that said there is no reason to think it can't be prepped to be fairly comfortable and safe. Also my truck will be my daily driver......and I won't be buying anything else so I want it right.

 

It has been a while since I read through the alignment section but I am certain that the castor is adjustable ......by inserting wedges at the axle mounts.

And I do know that my truck was in at least one substantial accident......so really everything needs to be carefully checked. That involves using some special tools.

I definitely agree we can do our part of things by making certain all the components that need replacing are done first. Honestly it rides and steers pretty well already....but I can't help thinking there is a bit of room for improvement. I would like to take some long trips with it. And it might as well be as good as I can get it.

 

Jeff

[Don Coatney]

 castor is adjustable ......by inserting wedges at the axle mounts.

 

Jeff

I have heard of the wedge trick too.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

the slotted adjustable wedges as shown are very common to tune the drive phase of a car that is slightly altered in lowering/raising....you can use these wedges in a tandem with another set for extended range...they are also marketed by x degrees ..be careful not to go too wild on application..suggest drilling and pinning them if used in multiples.

 

I cannot see where a wedge could effectively alter single side of a straight axle to correct a caster problem due to physical damage..have only seen this done with heat and strong arm massage..we had one shop in town that was always busy in the hey day of the Ford Twin I beams as this was a very nasty problem coming from the factory....they also yet today do large over the road trucks as I think this is till a predominate setup..if not they still the first palce to take the big rig in that town as their shop is setup for OTR trucks..

[Young Ed]

Jeff when you are ready you need to find a shop that works on delivery trucks. Sounds like I might be the only one on here with some experience and even mine is second hand. The front axle in Dads 40 Plymouth was bent when he bought it. He brought the axle in and they straightened it most of the way. After the truck was built he brought it back and they aligned it.

[NiftyFifty]

If your removing springs, the rule of thumb is you can't take the bottom one out (supposed to leave bottom two) then only every other spring, so if you have 7, from the bottom up you could remove 2 and 4, or if the two spring theory is true, only 3 and 5. I know I didn't do that with my 1 ton rear axle, but I removed about 6 leaves and still have 6-7 left. My front end can't be changed now...the clearance for the new rack and pinion doesn't allow a soft ride, but the first parking lot that two people box me in will pay for itself.

[Dave72dt]

The wedges work reasonably well. They also somewhat affect the caster on the other side as well, flexing the spring a bit so reading will change, not as much as the wedge side but there is a change.

Specialized hydraulic equipment was used to twist and bend the axles on the ones I worked on back in the early 70's. I could only do up to 1 tons but never needed any heat. You couldn't cure physical damage with wedges. You needed the hydraulics and was the preferred method for all the alignment process instead of the wedges

Edited April 9, 2015 by Dave72dt

[TodFitch]

For what it is worth my '33 Plymouth has a tubular front axle. Pretty much like a solid front axle but a bit less unsprung weight.

 

If the caster is different from one side to the other then you'll need to cold bend the axle to fix that. If it is off on both sides then you can use wedge shims between the axle and the springs.

 

If the camber is off on either or both sides you will need to cold bend the axle.

 

Toe-in is easy, just adjust the tie rod length. On my car, centering the steering wheel is hard as the drag link is not adjustable.

 

Anyway, big truck still have solid axles and there are shops around with the equipment to deal with them. Won't be your standard neighborhood tire and alignment place but will be easily found in the phone book (assuming you still have an old fashioned phone book). In my case, about 17 years ago when I got my car back together one of the local truck alignment places was more than happy to fix the alignment issues on my slightly bent front axle for a very modest fee.

 

If you remove spring leaves, I would expect that the alignment item most likely to change would be caster. And it will probably be the same amount on both sides so shims might work to fix it. However a trip to your local truck alignment shop will assure that all the geometry will be as good as it can be.

 

One further note: The place that did my car had all the equipment and skills but not the specifications for my car. So take along a copy of the specifications when you go there.

[ggdad1951]

Odd I put FEF back together same as I took him apart. Tape measure to set alignment and no issues.

[TodFitch]

Odd I put FEF back together same as I took him apart. Tape measure to set alignment and no issues.

Only thing I can think of alignment related that you can use a tape measure for is toe in. And if that is the only issue that your front end had then it could well be enough.

 

But if you have issues with camber or caster I don't see how a tape measure would be a sufficient tool.

[Jeff Balazs]

Odd I put FEF back together same as I took him apart. Tape measure to set alignment and no issues.

You may have gotten lucky too. As I recall FEF isn't exactly set up for speed either...... There is a whole description of what needs to be done and a specific order in which it needs to be done in the truck manual.

 

As I have said all along my truck will be my daily driver. There isn't going to be another truck or car.....this is it. And it needs to perform safely on our freeways. That means it has to be able to cruise at 70 mph and stop quickly. And here because of the crazy-a$$ traffic ......breaking down can deadly in a hurry. That is why I have done a lot of the stuff I have. 4 wheel discs.....higher ratio rear end etc.... Because it just needs to be as good as it can be. Period. I didn't worry about a few dents or stuff like that  Much more concerned with "bulletproofing"  and things that have an effect on reliability and comfort. This alignment / ride set up etc... is the last step in a long process

 

Jeff

Edited April 9, 2015 by Jeff Balazs

[55 Fargo]

Okay did some more investigating, I have 8 leaf springs on each side up front and 6 on each side in the back.

The rear pivots for the front springs are seized up and barely moving, tried to grease them again, they won't take grease. That is a real issue that would make a hard ride.

Same thing on the rears, very tight pivots. Also the later model 8 1/4 diff spring perches appear to be a little too narrow, so the rear spring eyes are not over the bushing as they should, it is not much, but enough to be a problem, not sure how I missed all of this.

So all of the springs and shackle/pivots will need to be addressed.

I can see things being a whole lot smoother/softer after this is taken care of.

Thanx very much to all for your input and experience...

[NiftyFifty]

I set my toe in with a tape measure for now, thankfully just spinning my outte tie Rod and adapter gives me what I need, about an 1/8" in, then it can go to town for a proper alignment, but I'll be there to watch they don't muss with my setup.... I wouldn't want to chance a new set of tires or my steerability (if that's a word ) without it going on the machine.

[55 Fargo]

I did try and get greae into all the shackle pivot bushings, a few did not take any.

Removed the zerks, but still did not take much grease.

Should the pivots move easily or are they normally quite rigid?

I ws also thinking of using old engine oil and atf to brush onto the rusty leaf springs for a temporary quick fix until I can take everything apart, would that help?

I can see these suspensions being quite acceptable if in good working order....

[Dave72dt]

the pivots are normally stiff and rigid after sitting neglected for years or poor maintenance.  They are supposed to move freely.   The oil wont hurt other than to become a sponge for dirt dust and grime thrown up from your travels.