1953 Plymouth Convertible Rebuild Part 2

[pflaming]

Update: I met Ed White here in Maine. (Will up load some pics tonite) He has three choice old mopars: 63 Dart Conv.; 65/66 Dodge Charger.; 47 Dodge 5 passenger couple, which he has restored to "perfection". We discussed the convertible top restore, and how to brace the body to remove it from the frame. Iin twenty minutes of conversation he may have saved me a month's work and a LOT of potential mistakes.

For example, he had pictures showing how he removed his top frame and how he 'mounted' it so he could work on it. He also introduced me to a metal 'edge' crimp, the tools required to make that edge, how to match and weld that seam, and how to brace the body so I can remove it and replace it.

Progress in knowledge should quicken the work when I return.

He also showed me how to take an old grarage door horizontal track and rollers, mount that to the ceiling, hand a good winch on the rolling hinge and have a moving winch. A great morning in Maine.

Final call: I introduced him to plymouthy tim. They had a nice long conversation, it was fun to listen in.

[pflaming]

Research Question #1: The engine has all the spark plug wires possibly the kind with wires in them. How can I check them to see if they are good. I'm not cheap, but if they are good, then . . . Question #2. I can get replacement floor pans for my car at about $260. If I make my own, would I save half, not figuring in my time (I'm retired).

New England is beautiful! We are heading to Vermont on Wed - Fri. Never been there. Need to check the member list, may be a forum member up there.

Edited July 5, 2013 by pflaming

[falconvan]

I'd have to vote for new plug wires whether they checked good or not. Those things have got to be at the end of their useful life. As far as floorpans, if you've got some basic sheet metal tools, I'd make them. Im not impressed with the re-pop floorpans; the ones I've seen are significantly lighter gauge than the originals. You can buy a 4x8 sheet of 16 ga cold rolled steel for about $75; that's enough to do you floors and then some.

[Dave72dt]

Replace the plug wires.  Continuity can be checked with an Ohm meter.  It's not so much a problem with the wire, it's the insulation around them that will let the spark out somewhere besides the plug.

[pflaming]

What is the concensus on new wires: Fiiament or wire? Do wire centered wires still exist? I have the fliament wires on my truck.

[pflaming]

Glass question: All the glass in my convertible is w/o cracks but shows age around the egdes in the form of "bubbles".  Glass will be my very last consdieration yet here is my question. Can the old glass be shined up? Every vehical looks best with new glass yet there is a nostilgia  in old glass as well.

 

I'm two days from flying home, so still researching options.

[Dave72dt]

The bubbles are probably signs of delamination between the layers of glass, same as the gray areas that start on the edges and work their way in.  It won't get better and it can't be polished out.

[pflaming]

Dave, I understand, I like the bubbles, shows "character". I'm NOT going to replace the glass, the next owner can pay that bill, BUT, I would like to polish what is there, so how to polish the old glass is my interest.

Young ED: (below) I'm not certain how much rubber gasket/sealer is on a convertible. Certainly on the windshield, but the wing, door, and rear quarter windows 'seal' differently. Will study all that.

Merle: Will practice the razor blade cleaning on an old pane left over from the truck build before I clean the convertible windows.

After continued research, I have discoved that '53's came in a gun metal gray. I thought my gray color was primer, but it is not, the car new was gray. I find it interesting to discover what an old car was when new. I've also learned that not one piece of sheet metal from the '52 plymouth will fit on the '53. The chassis' are very much alike but not the bodies.

During the Korean war, automobile mfgr's were held back on their steel usage especially chrome. In '53 the restrictions were lowered and GM and Ford put more chrome on, Plymouth, because their sales were so high, did not. So the '53 is a "plain Jane" but the '54 received additional SS or Chrome as the case may be.

I'm going to enjoy this build. Will be back home next week.

Was in upper Vermont the past three days, simply gorgeous terrain. Back in Maine now.

Edited July 12, 2013 by pflaming

[Merle Coggins]

I use a razor blade to scrape the glass clean, along with some glass cleaner to lubricate the blade. That helps to remove any debris that is stuck on. Use a new blade with plenty of 'lube'. If you use an old blade, or not enough cleaner for lube, you can scratch the glass. Then just clean and buff it with your favorite glass cleaner.

 

Merle

[Young Ed]

Paul If you are renewing the gaskets I feel it would be foolish not to invest in new glass.

[Mark Haymond]

I have gotten hard water stains and crud off old auto window glass using a new razor blade and patience on the edges where it builds up the most. For the rest of the glass, I have used a mild paint "rubbing compound," taking care to change T-shirt cloth often and keep the rubbing compound wet and fresh. I learned the trick from some janitorial people who could clean a stained shower door glass to look like new. It still takes a lot of elbow work, but done right, it will cut the water deposits and not scratch the glass.

I love the bubbles in the window glass of my 47 Plymouth, it is part of the time machine experience.

[pflaming]

Flying home today: Portland, ME; Ohare, SFO, Fresno, CA.

Question: I have a choice: pressure hose with sand or high pressre steam cleaner. The cost is the same. I staeam "cleaned" the car before I garaged it. Now with the seats , dash, wiring out and the doghouse off, I will clean it again. So. . . sand blast or steam clean the engine/front suspension and the body?

Will post some pics of this vacation when I get home.

[martybose]

You have a much higher chance of distorting bodywork with sand blasting than with steam cleaning, so if steam cleaning gets it clean enough I'd go that way.

 

marty

[pflaming]

Moved the car so I could give it a 2nd good steam clean. Will take Marty's advise and not sandblast. 

First had to get the car out of the garage

 

 

 

 

Then turn it around, since the rear wheels were on casters, it was easy to do

 

 

 

 

Then pulled it onto the street with the dodge, and removed the temp rear axle put in when I brought it home.

 

 

But had to get a larger truck to lift the car high enough to pull down the street. The destination was only about amile through back streets. 

 

 

Not legal this way and will not bring it back this way, but now I am the steam cleaner

 

OT Saw this in Maine: Can anyone identify it? 

 

 

or this?

 

 

 

Tomorrow will be cleaning day. Question, what can be used to pre-soak the 40 year old grease/dirt crude that the steam cleaner may not cut through. 

[pflaming]

Just spent five hours steam cleaning the vert. What I found was that the repaint job paiint will steam off leaving a solid original paint. By removiing the 2nd coat with steam, no sand paper lines to worry about. Once the second coat was removed, the firewall and the door jams are now like new. Some polish and they will shine up very nicely. The original color was a very convervative gray, maybe a hint of blue. That is not a color I really like, but with the firewall and the door jams near pristine, to rebuilt in the original color interests me. Gray is popular these days and with a good contrasting interior and a white top it might be a looker. 

 

With some good degreaser, the engine block cleaned up silver! Amazing, now not pristine, but intriguing. I'm a fan or original patina so . . . to be continued.

 

Question: Why didn't that 2nd coat adhere to the original paint? 

[TodFitch]

Question: Why didn't that 2nd coat adhere to the original paint? 

 

Bad prep job, not properly sanded perhaps.

 

Cool that steam cleaning showed so much original paint.

[Don Coatney]

I dont think steam cleaning is cool.

[pflaming]

Some pictures of the 'cleansing' process. I say 'cleansing' because this hobby borders on a religious experience, faith, hope, and love.

 

Just a few. It is amazing to me how much paint remains under the rust. I'm curious to see what shows up with some1000 grit wet and dry massaging. Who knows, this may be a candidate for an original patina convertible, now that would be a first. IF, the fenders have as much color as the hood, then paint will be the very last thing. I wll drive it original patina til then. That will be the big money so. . .  

 

Compare the last two pics. The bottom one still has the faded yellow paint. That pic is as it was when I found it. I am beginning to really enjoy bringing an old vehicle back to life. Would be nice to by younger.

 

Note the difference in the hood. Whatever I do, steam cleaning is much easier, faster, and less damage than sanding. This pressure steam cleaner is a top notch machine, it would take the hide off a dilla and leave the meat ready to BBQ!

 

Edit: Will have to check the color code to see if the original color was light blue or gray. Gotta learn how to do that. Oh and If someone has that piece of the grill that is deformed, send me a pm. That grill comes in four or five pieces.  

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2013 by pflaming

[pflaming]

Put the car in the air and put three hours of pressure steam cleaning to the undercarriage. The rocker panels are solid, the car has not been in a accident. But for the low flat areas, the floors are solid, the fuel tank looks good, and the front suspension looks fine. The car was sprayed with undercoat so that is everywhere. A lot came off from under the fenders but was very tight on the frame. 

 

Will take a final look tomorrow morning then move it to my shop.  It is very nice to have unlimited access to a powerful steam cleaner and forklifts. A friend who is car smart commented that the structure of this car is excellent. I think I got lucky when I found and bought this. The pictures should be self explanatory. 

 

My biggest concern now is the condition of the Hy-drive and there is not way of knowing its condition without driving the car, so I must get the car on the road ASAP. If that tranny is no good, then I will probably put an overdrive tranny in. I have an engine with OD tranny waiting in the wings. I would swap the entire assembly. To put a different tranny on this engine is not a bolt on switch.

 

One I was under the car, I then saw how large that converter is. To get that out, a major cross member must be removed. 

 

(To be continued )

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2013 by pflaming

[pflaming]

I moved the car to my shop by using a car dolly. Now I can get serious the work to be done. What was VERY encouraging was that I was able to slightly loosen all the large bolts on the top frame. I do not want to remove them I just wanted to get them to change positions. Once the bolts moved, I then reversed direction and moved it back a forth a couple of times. Then I gave them a new mouth full of liquid wrench.

 

Hood is off, and the back is on coasters so I can move it around. I had a couple of helpers today, need to start them young.

 

Question: How do I hot wire this since its' starter is solenoid activated?

 

My helpers!

 

EDIT:  Ok Don: (1) starter button, (2) Toggle switch, (3) temp gauge, (4) oil gauge (down low), (5) Solenoid, (6) ?? Gauge on the right side with the green/red face. What is that?  So tomorrow will make me a Coatney Dash. 

 

Don't need the radiator yet, got to do a compression test and see if I have oil pressure. I should have drained the oil when I had the car in the air, oh well, will need a four gallon pan to collect 11 quarts of oil and not spill any.  Gonna take a half case of oil to refill. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2013 by pflaming

[Don Coatney]

Paul, Surely you can figure how to hot wire it.

 

 

[JerseyHarold]

Have a fire extinguisher handy 'just in case' and pre-oil the cylinders to cut-down on friction.

[48Dodger]

 

 

Question: Why didn't that 2nd coat adhere to the original paint? 

 

Depends on a few things. Paint shrinks, and as it does that, it anchors itself to the surface. If its a surface that is poorly prepared, it will have nothing to hang onto and in affect become a shell. A shell that is formed to, say the fender, and hanging on for dear life virture of said shape. It may have a few good finger grips, but as the paint ages it begins to crack, flake, and delaminate.

 

48D

[48Dodger]

I dont think steam cleaning is cool.

 

 

lol.....that was funny.....

 

48D

[Don Coatney]

Try this on your rusted bumpers.

 

http://www.flixxy.com/coca-cola-rust-removal.htm