Will a 62' 413 max wedge motor fit in a 47 Plymouth

[Adam H P15 D30]

I've heard of a Golden Commando. Did you drive those hot rods SAFELY on stock brakes' date='stock wheels, stock tires, stock suspension, and stock rear axles? If so you have a different definition of safety than I have.

On the other hand, if you upgraded the brakes, wheels, tires, suspension, and rear axle to handle the extra 300 horsepower, you did what I advised the questioner to do.

Just to change the subject do you have any idea how many amateurs have tried to install big block engines in old cars, and how many of those cars wound up butchered, unfinished and scrapped?[/quote']

Everyone has their first hot rod project, we are not born with the know how so why discourage him? A flathead powered vehicle with stock brakes and suspension is just as dangerous slowing from 70mph to 0 as a big block powered machine, so I guess we should all park our vehicles in the name of safety.

I have gotten a couple of cars from other people's unfinished projects and it is just the way it is with any large projects. I have also bought a house that was someone's project where he bit off more than he could chew. That's life!!

I don't appreciate people calling hot rods or street rods butchered. How bad could they be? They usually bring a lot more $$$$$$$ than their stock counterparts. Remember, there really only needs to be 1 example of each vehicle in the world, the rest can be modified. But opinions are like @$$h01e$ everyone has one and they usually stink.

To the origional poster: Build away and don't let the negative discourage you. Post pictures and ask away, there is a world of knowledge on this site and 99% will help you through any problem or dilema. Most of all, ENJOY THE BUILD and don't rush it. Lastly, don't believe everything you read on the net.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Adam H P15 D30
Staying nice

[Adam H P15 D30]

No it won't fit. Some will tell you to jam it in there' date=' it still won't fit. Can you force it to fit? You can force anything. But even if you did a perfect job and it worked perfect the steering, brakes, tires and handling would be dangerously inadequate.[/quote']

By the way, I understand from a prior post that you have built many cars in your life time. If so why would you make such a statement when it will fit?

[dezeldoc]

I'll bet you a new car I have built more old cars and hot rods than you have. After working in garages for 20 years I have a little more knowledge than some internet experts who glibly advise amateurs to tackle jobs that a professional with a fully equipped shop would think twice about.

The sad part is when the unfortunate amateur has his car all torn apart and comes back plaintively asking what his next move is' date=' these Cliff Clavens are never around with the answers.[/quote']

Keep working on your experience and maybe you will get to about a third of what i know. 35+ years and also owned 2 restoration shops and still build all kinds of cars from restored stockers to full blown customs. Yes i have seen some scarry hack jobs and also some very nice home brewed work. Just dropping in the max wedge on a totally stock car is not a bad idea but also not a good one. Any of these cars should be upgraded to disc brakes for better stopping, but as the old timer says; they worked 50 years ago they still work today.

By the way a buddy has a complete 64 426 max wedge he is looking to sale if anybody is looking.

Edited July 25, 2012 by dezeldoc

[Frank Elder]

No it won't fit. Some will tell you to jam it in there' date=' it still won't fit. Can you force it to fit? You can force anything. But even if you did a perfect job and it worked perfect the steering, brakes, tires and handling would be dangerously inadequate.

A professional hot rod shop would gut the car like a trout, build a whole new chassis with better steering, disc brakes, heavy duty rear axle etc. The whole deal would cost $50,000 but it would be safe to drive. It wouldn't be any fun, it would be a gas hog to boot but you wouldn't be endangering the public every time you left your drive way.

Better keep it stock or if you really want a 413, buy a newer car. A 413 will bolt straight into any 1958 up Chrysler DeSoto Plymouth or Dodge full size car.[/quote']

By the way someone is bullshitting you. There is no such thing as a 413 Max Wedge. There was a 413 which was used in Chrysler 300' date=' New Yorker and Imperial starting in 1959. And there was a high performance Max Wedge 426 used in Dodge and Plymouth full size race cars from 1962 and 63 but no 413 Max Wedge.

The 413 was a luxury car engine with small valves and relatively low power compared to the Max Wedge and Hemi racing engines.

A 413 in a 47 Plymouth coupe would have been cool in 1961 but not now.[/quote']

I've heard of a Golden Commando. Did you drive those hot rods SAFELY on stock brakes' date='stock wheels, stock tires, stock suspension, and stock rear axles? If so you have a different definition of safety than I have.

On the other hand, if you upgraded the brakes, wheels, tires, suspension, and rear axle to handle the extra 300 horsepower, you did what I advised the questioner to do.

Just to change the subject do you have any idea how many amateurs have tried to install big block engines in old cars, and how many of those cars wound up butchered, unfinished and scrapped?[/quote']

I'll bet you a new car I have built more old cars and hot rods than you have. After working in garages for 20 years I have a little more knowledge than some internet experts who glibly advise amateurs to tackle jobs that a professional with a fully equipped shop would think twice about.

The sad part is when the unfortunate amateur has his car all torn apart and comes back plaintively asking what his next move is' date=' these Cliff Clavens are never around with the answers.[/quote']

The chance that the questioner can actually get a genuine 1962 Max Wedge 413 is extremely remote. I will not say actually impossible because they do exist and there is a chance he found one for a couple hundred $$$$ bucks at the yard sale of a deceased racer.

But if someone did find such an engine he would be crazy to put it in a 47 Plymouth. For what he could get from a collector he could buy a brand new crate engine from Chrysler and have change left over.

I assumed from the start that he may have found an old 413 out of a New Yorker or Imperial and glibly called it a Max Wedge because he didn't know any better.

This would be part and parcel of an amateur asking if such an engine would fit in a 47 Plymouth. I have been involved in the building of such hot rods and frankly if you have to ask a question like that' date=' you don't know enough to pull it off.

And if you are a good enough mechanic to do the job, you won't need to ask.[/quote']

When you step on your male appendage, you really stomp it good don't you. It's no different than putting a 383 or 440 in there, and thats been done.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the very comments made here if dropped to the owners in person ay at the rat roaders section of a meet or cruise (not misspelled, they are not rods..just mishaped cars on the road in the rat class) these guys would react like a group of pitbulls on a marshmellow..

I think Rusty has been fully chastised by now..lets get back to the subject..again..the question was not one of sensibility...only if it would fit..we go to the extreme here to often..

[greg g]

From the looks of it we have fully disuaded the OP, as he has, and most likely will not respond, or look for input from this august body again. If member Ed from downndirty rod shop can run a 440 in his p15 and has done so since I became a member of this forum nearly 10 years ago, I guess the short answer is, YES! the rest of the dicsussion should have centered around degree of difficulty vs. OP's mechanical apptitude or depth of bank account.

After all, All things are possible with enough work time money and effort. And as I recall the 62 Savoy had front drum brakes only a couple degrees removed from what is on my p15.

dual front wheel cylinders and all.

[Plymouthy Adams]

if you don't have the tools and the shop..you gonna need one of these..you may well need it even if you do..parts can be quite costly..

[MacGyver]

The appropriate responses to his query are "Yes," "No," "Yes with some time, proper mods, and $"

We don't know anything about the OP. He could have been Chip Foose simply playing games, testing our knowledge, friendliness, and willingness to help. He has all the time, experience, knowledge, and $$$ he will ever need to complete this project and likely do it better than any of us could. Looks like some people bit on his ruse...

Lack of threads like this are why I frequent this forum. I'm going back out to the garage now.

[Plymouthy Adams]

If Chip was playing games...we were all too kind....! reserve the games to the schoolyard at recess...

[T120]

Everyone brings something to the picnic...

[40P10touring sedan]

I think 1947plymouthrodder was simply asking if he could, as in looking to see if anyone "had", so he could see how they did it and compare notes/pics...I could be wrong though{this coming from the guy{me} who wants to stuff a blown 25" chrysler flathead 6 motor in my '40 plymouth}.

Using a set of speedway frame puck mounts and the appropriate motor mounts{given a 20" wide frame...I think} it could be easily done after clearancing steering gear....now, inner fenderwell clearances...that might be a different story.

Edited July 25, 2012 by 40P10touring sedan

[Plymouthy Adams]

I assure you that..if you intend to fully enclose the engine compartment after the install of a later V block..it gets quite involved and gets there fast...you have not only the lower and wider manifolds to contend with, you have the tapered engine compartment throw into the mix the fact that you probably will be utilizing a forward mount radiator of a non factory design and mounting AC components, over flow tank/reservoir, washer reservoir, computer, ABS brake controller, dual master w/booster, clutch master and maybe a lot of electrical in the order of a power distribution panel..yeah...quite involved...

[dezeldoc]

here is a pic of mine with the 440/727 in it. It has been in there since 1994 with no problems. This pic was taken after sitting for the past few years so excuse the dirty mess.

[randroid]

dezeldoc,

I'm about the last person to criticize your work so please don't take this wrong but I do have a couple questions:

1. The lack of A\C jumps out at me, especially considering the temps you get on the High Desert. Is there not enough room, did you want to keep it cleaner, or have you just not gotten to it yet?

2. Did you punch a hole in the hood because the lower cross-flow manifold wasn't available, linkage wasn't a nightmare, or it looks spiffy?

There are other responses I didn't list, of course, but those are the first to come to mind.

One last question is why haven't you run it for a few years? Too many other projects, gas mileage would require a second mortgage to keep the tank full, or is it that once you're the fastest car in town you don't need to prove anything?

Inquiring minds want to know.

-Randy

[littlemo]

Dezeldoc; What type/brand/ year etc. radiator are you using with your 440/727 combo ??? Cass, alias littlemo

[dezeldoc]

dezeldoc,

I'm about the last person to criticize your work so please don't take this wrong but I do have a couple questions:

1. The lack of A\C jumps out at me, especially considering the temps you get on the High Desert. Is there not enough room, did you want to keep it cleaner, or have you just not gotten to it yet?

2. Did you punch a hole in the hood because the lower cross-flow manifold wasn't available, linkage wasn't a nightmare, or it looks spiffy?

There are other responses I didn't list, of course, but those are the first to come to mind.

One last question is why haven't you run it for a few years? Too many other projects, gas mileage would require a second mortgage to keep the tank full, or is it that once you're the fastest car in town you don't need to prove anything?

Inquiring minds want to know.

-Randy

Randy, A/C never came to mind on it, it will fit no problem. Even on my daily driver i don't use it much. The hole in the hood was to clear the carbs, i used to race this at LACR years back as well going to the cruise nights. Too many other projects is the right answer as well as working to many hours.

Dezeldoc; What type/brand/ year etc. radiator are you using with your 440/727 combo ??? Cass, alias littlemo

Cass, the radiator was given to me by a buddy and we are not sure what it is out of, he had it in his collection of radiators.

[Rusty O'Toole]

"Everyone has their first hot rod project, we are not born with the know how so why discourage him? A flathead powered vehicle with stock brakes and suspension is just as dangerous slowing from 70mph to 0 as a big block powered machine, so I guess we should all park our vehicles in the name of safety."

If you think a 1947 car with a 217 cu in 90HP engine performs exactly the same as the same car with a 413 cu in 375HP engine you sure don't know much about cars.

"I have gotten a couple of cars from other people's unfinished projects and it is just the way it is with any large projects. I have also bought a house that was someone's project where he bit off more than he could chew. That's life!! "

That's life all right. I have made mistakes too. Man have I made em. Wish someone had warned me off before it was too late.

"I don't appreciate people calling hot rods or street rods butchered. How bad could they be? They usually bring a lot more $$$$$$$ than their stock counterparts. "

If you believe a butchered 47 Dodge with a 413 engine is worth as much as a stock one, you sure don't know much about cars. Even hot rodders don't want to buy cars someone else has hot rodded. The only hot rods that sell for more than a stock car, are "name" cars with a history, or REALLY well done cars that typically sell for half what the builder has in them. Home made half assed cars are practically unsaleable.

" Remember, there really only needs to be 1 example of each vehicle in the world, the rest can be modified. But opinions are like @$$h01e$ everyone has one and they usually stink."

There doesn't even need to be one. There are lots of obscure makes of cars that have vanished off the face of the earth and it doesn't hurt our quality of life one iota.

"To the origional poster: Build away and don't let the negative discourage you. Post pictures and ask away, there is a world of knowledge on this site and 99% will help you through any problem or dilema. Most of all, ENJOY THE BUILD and don't rush it. Lastly, don't believe everything you read on the net."

By all means, let him have his fun. Hope you are here with helpful advice when his car is scattered all over the back yard.

Experience keeps an expensive school.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Rusty O'Toole

[Rusty O'Toole]

By the way, I understand from a prior post that you have built many cars in your life time. If so why would you make such a statement when it will fit?

"Will it fit?"

"Sure, no problem"

" Oh goody, then I can do the change over the weekend in the driveway with a monkey wrench and a hammer and drive it to work on Monday"

"Ahh.... might be a little problem".

[Rusty O'Toole]

A newbie asks if a 413 will fit a 47 Dodge. So far 8 people say it will but nobody has said how.

I have given my reasons for thinking it is a bad idea. Now I would like to see one of you "experts" give a detailed answer laying out EVERYTHING that has to be done to a 47 Dodge, to install a 413 engine and end up with a car that can SAFELY be driven with reliability equal to a stock car.

I think you owe that to the questioner. If he tears his car apart on your say so you owe it to him to help put it back together.

[Andydodge]

Rusty, I have had a 318 poly in my 1940 Dodge since 1973, I installed it, adapted the rack & pinion steering, 4 wheel disc brakes, seats, painted it, widened the rear fenders 2", rewired it etc, etc.......I am not a mechanic nor engineer but have taught myself a few things as others no doubt have and continue to do.

As for putting a 413 big block into a P15 or similar car(like my 1940 Dodge) any mopar B or RB engine from 350 thru to a 440 are essentially the same basic physical size, all, as you know have a front mount distributor which helps in fitting and with a bit of fiddling around should fit reasonably well.

As mentioned it all comes down to the skill, knowledge, access to tools & equipment and desire that will eventually decide whether it works or not.

Other factors such as steering, brakes & suspension should also be taken into account but anything is possible if you want it and are determined enough.

Anyway one of the great things I like about this forum is the diversity and acceptance of differences........my 2cents worth.......regards, Andy Douglas

[Plymouthy Adams]

Rusty, 1947plymouthrodder asked about a 413 in a special deluxe...not a Custom..so the body here is assumed to be a Plymuth and not a Dodge...the answer is still yes..had he asked about the Dodge specific..my answer would be the same with one exception..I have a big block in my 41 Dodge along with power R&P, relocated shocks, power disc brakes AC and all all the other bells and whistle..comple with redesigned inner fenders..I don't have an arguement here with your stated extras on safety..if you wish to be like Ralph Nader then start at your local meets and clean up the the rat roader crowd..but regardless of any other comment and direct answer to the man's question..the 413 is just a big block..if he wishes to install the thing, let the big dog eat..no one on here is obligated or in any manner responsible for his actions..that is the big disclaimer on the use of this forum..granted we need to be exact in our answers..but hey I stand firm on this anyone with plymouthrodder in his name is already projecting an air of competence..if not, well there is your first deception.

[Young Ed]

As long as he's not trying to fit one of these. I suspect this would be quite the challenge.

[Adam H P15 D30]

"Everyone has their first hot rod project' date=' we are not born with the know how so why discourage him? A flathead powered vehicle with stock brakes and suspension is just as dangerous slowing from 70mph to 0 as a big block powered machine, so I guess we should all park our vehicles in the name of safety."

If you think a 1947 car with a 217 cu in 90HP engine performs exactly the same as the same car with a 413 cu in 375HP engine you sure don't know much about cars.

"I have gotten a couple of cars from other people's unfinished projects and it is just the way it is with any large projects. I have also bought a house that was someone's project where he bit off more than he could chew. That's life!! "

That's life all right. I have made mistakes too. Man have I made em. Wish someone had warned me off before it was too late.

"I don't appreciate people calling hot rods or street rods butchered. How bad could they be? They usually bring a lot more $$$$$$$ than their stock counterparts. "

If you believe a butchered 47 Dodge with a 413 engine is worth as much as a stock one, you sure don't know much about cars. Even hot rodders don't want to buy cars someone else has hot rodded. The only hot rods that sell for more than a stock car, are "name" cars with a history, or REALLY well done cars that typically sell for half what the builder has in them. Home made half assed cars are practically unsaleable.

" Remember, there really only needs to be 1 example of each vehicle in the world, the rest can be modified. But opinions are like @$$h01e$ everyone has one and they usually stink."

There doesn't even need to be one. There are lots of obscure makes of cars that have vanished off the face of the earth and it doesn't hurt our quality of life one iota.

"[b']To the origional poster: Build away and don't let the negative discourage you. Post pictures and ask away, there is a world of knowledge on this site and 99% will help you through any problem or dilema. Most of all, ENJOY THE BUILD and don't rush it. Lastly, don't believe everything you read on the net."

By all means, let him have his fun. Hope you are here with helpful advice when his car is scattered all over the back yard.

Experience keeps an expensive school.

I admire your resolve in this matter even when you are DEAD WRONG. Mass slowing from freeway speeds to a stop doesn't care what's pushing it because is stopping:rolleyes: I sold my last 47 Plym for $28,000 340, 5 speed, GM clip, 8.75 rear............ Find me a stocker that will bring that much. No Offense to anyone with stockers on this board.

There you go again with you "butchered" bull S. You really live under a rock, don't you? Don't EVER question my knowledge on cars!! It is not absolute and all knowing but by the complete B.S. that comes from your posts on this thread, you don't know what you are talking about at all. If you don't believe me or you just want examples, just look at the other posts on this thread. You really should have left this thread with your tail between your legs long ago. YOU ARE WRONG WRONG WRONG

Edited July 27, 2012 by Adam H P15 D30

[dezeldoc]

I admire your resolve in this matter even when you are DEAD WRONG. Mass slowing from freeway speeds to a stop doesn't care what's pushing it because is stopping:rolleyes: I sold my last 47 Plym for $28,000 340, 5 speed, GM clip, 8.75 rear............ Find me a stocker that will bring that much. No Offense to anyone with stockers on this board.

There you go again with you "butchered" bull S. You really live under a rock, don't you? Don't EVER question my knowledge on cars!! It is not absolute and all knowing but by the complete B.S. that comes from your posts on this thread, you don't know what you are talking about at all. It you don't believe me or you just want examples, just look at the other posts on this thread. You really should have left this thread with your tail between your legs long ago. YOU ARE WRONG WRONG WRONG

ya would think he would learn!

[Adam H P15 D30]

I apologize to the ORIGIONAL POSTER for the way YOUR thread went. Please enjoy your car how you want it and don't let other people's biased opinions sway your judgement.

Sad to say... I wouldn't be surprised if he got scared away. It's really too bad. He might have had a lot to contribute to this forum.