Stuck valve?

[Don Coatney]

What you need is a stud extractor as pictured below. Heat the broken bolt until cherry red using a propane or mapp gas torch. Then borrow one of your wifes candles and let the hot bolt melt the wax. The wax will seep into the threads and lubricate them.

Drilling would be my last resort. If you do drill use a left handed drill bit. If the left handed drill bit gets a good bite it will unscrew the broken bolt for you.

[Mark D]

Thanks Don - A much easier approach to try first. Hopefully the 1/4" of stud sticking up is enough to grab hold of.

[austinsailor]

I would try:

TIG weld a big knob on top if you have a TIG available. Use a big, good quality vice grip to turn it. Go both ways, both in and out to work it loose. I've never had a broken bolt I couldn't get out this way, including those broken below the surface. The heat gets it loose, the big knob gives you something to turn it with. Some use a wire welder but I've had little success with that, I can never get a good enough weld that the nut doesn't break loose. Someone better than me with a wire welder might make this work, too.

If no TIG is available, I'd use your favorite penetrating oil/compound for a day or two, heat if possible, (small tip on a gas torch?) then work it back and forth until it'll back out. Heat only the bolt, not the block. The important part is to go both ways to work it loose.

I can't imagine an easy out working.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Drop a proper 7/16" hole sized thick 1/8-3/16" heavy duty 1 to 1-1/2" OS diameter washer over the 1/4" of exposed stud. Properly weld the washer to the stud. Then weld a big5/8-3/4" hex nut to the washer melt parafin while hot to the sud area.

The washer lets you get a good weld to the stud. A larger nut then welded good to the washer will most likely and easily promote the stud to come out because of the heating and cooling during the 2 stages of welding.

Bob

Edited March 24, 2012 by Dodgeb4ya

[moose]

Hey Mark, since you had one of them break, there is the distinct possibility of more of them breaking. Who knows how many times those have been torqued- previous head gasket replacements, rebuilds etc... I'd say replace them all with new, or studs. Fairly cheap price to pay to not go through this again. I'm sure they'd be good for your upcoming rebuild too.

[Mark D]

Moose, after screwing with this broken bolt for the past five hours, I am in total agreement. I'm going to order a complete set from summit today. It doesn't seem I'll have this thing back together this weekend, so I've got the time to wait for them to arrive. Checked last night and found that they are back ordered, so may end up going to VPW and spending this weeks gas & grocery money for some oem bolts.

Picked up a stud extractor this am and tried, but my torch is propane and I don't think it's giving me enuough heat, then there's the fact that the valve assemblies are so cloe to the stud that I cant get the extractor to bite enough of it to hold on.

So I think I have two choices; drill it and take my chances or get her towed to a garage that has a welder...

Slightly discouraged this morning... And its too early for a beer.

Edited March 24, 2012 by My48Ruby

[RobertKB]

I had a broken head bolt once and had a mechanic drill it out but he did mess the threads a bit but everything still held OK. Welding a nut on as mentioned is probably your best bet. If you are not a welder, I would take it to someone who deals with these issues all the time, like an old time mechanic with a welder. Better safe than sorry in this situation and worth the money for peace of mind.

[mach0415]

Moose, after screwing with this broken bolt for the past five hours, I am in total agreement. I'm going to order a complete set from summit today. It doesn't seem I'll have this thing back together this weekend, so I've got the time to wait for them to arrive. Checked last night and found that they are back ordered, so may end up going to VPW and spending this weeks gas & grocery money for some oem bolts.

Picked up a stud extractor this am and tried, but my torch is propane and I don't think it's giving me enuough heat, then there's the fact that the valve assemblies are so cloe to the stud that I cant get the extractor to bite enough of it to hold on.

So I think I have two choices; drill it and take my chances or get her towed to a garage that has a welder...

Slightly discouraged this morning... And its too early for a beer.

enh...its after 12 o'clock somewhere:D

[T120]

...Check out this link.It illustrates Bob's suggestion for stud removal

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/studremoval.htm

[greg g]

You should be able to find bolts locally without breaking the bank. I used the chevy ones and they have served with no problems. They are a Pioneer Parts item under a buck when I got them the 25 is an item count but I ordered 21 from my machine shop. Ask where you get the head checked. If not Pioneer then thair number can be easily cross referenced to what ever suppliers they might use.

grade 8, stock, pioneer

Edited March 25, 2012 by greg g

[Mark D]

Ralph - that's the method I am going to employ. Or, better stated.. will have my mechaic employ. I haven't welded since the mid 80's and am a little out of practice. Heard from an old friend last night that has offer me an old hobart stick welder for cheap so I'll likely have that in my arsenal in the future, but schedules wont allow me to get it for a few weeks. So I'm acting on my AAA gold membership and will have the car flat-bedded over to the mechanic this week for stud removal.

Greg - I searched thoroughly read the head bolt posts over the past few nights. I've got a few options to explore tomorrow.

Headbolt.com: http://headbolts.com/mopar-l6-fastener.html for about $2.75ea.

Summitracing.com: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PIO-PG-362-25/?rtype=10 Cost there is $24.95

Oldmoparts.com: (Bernbaum) http://www.oldmoparts.com/l.htm $3.00 each (only a 10 minute ride from my office too...)

Roberts Motor Parts: I've got a email in to to see if he has some on the shelf. I like doing business with small vendors even if they cost a couple extra bucks.

There is also a fella here in Aubrun MA that Ebays alot of p15 parts, I might call him as well.

Spent most of the afternoon yesterday detailing all of the stuff I tore off the engine the night before. Stripping years of paint and gunk really cleaned up alot of the messy stuff and should make it a little more presentable this summer. Heading back down the garage now to finish cleaning and painting the block while I have access to it.

[Mark D]

Had dinner with my wife's dad tonight. I updated him with the trials and tribulations of the weekend and my plan to have the car towed to a shop with a welder. He laughed and told me about the flathead ford he had as a kid and how he overcame this exact same problem. His dad was a machinist (a broacher to be exact) and had access to a portable drill press. Pops used it, and some reverse drill bits of increasing diameter to drill out the stud. The drill press gets mounted to a jig of plywood or steel plate and then gets bolted to the block using the head bolt holes. I found a portable jig at sears and he's going to give me a hand tomorrow night. I think this is very do-able for an amateur such as I, so I'm going to give it a go tomorrow night. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00967173000P?mv=rr

[oldodge41]

Sounds like a good plan. Good luck.

[Young Ed]

Cover the engine carefully to manage the shavings.

[Don Coatney]

Find a drill press with a magnetic base and make sure you are centered on the broken bolt. You might want to file the top of the broken bolt to insure it is flat otherwise the drill bit will want to wander and not go in dead center.

[Mark D]

After visiting Lowes for some 2" 7/16"-14 & washers, Sears for the drilling jig, Berbaums for a t-stat gasket and some head bolts, (just had to see what that was all about), and Northern tool for some reverse drill bits, I managed to anchor the jig to the block, and drill sucessively larger holes right through what remains of the head bolt stuck in my block. I stopped at the recommended size for an ez-out and gave it a try.... no movement at all. So I cleaned up, put my tools away, shut out the lights and went home for the night. After 2 fingers of Corvousier, I feel better, but the stud remains... tomorrow is another day.

My thought for the day; Look for the opportunity in every challenge instead of being paralyzed at the thought of the challenge in every opportunity...

[greg g]

the Corvousier is the best idea I have heard in a while for the problems involved with a stuck head bolt. Now that you have a hole in the bolt try some heat again prior to the use of the easy out.

[Don Coatney]

Did you try the candle wax trick prior to drilling?

[Mark D]

Yes Don, but I don't think my propane was getting it hot enough. Found a friend in town with an oxy/acetylene set late last night. He's coming by tonight to lend a hand.

[Don Coatney]

You can burn the rest of the bolt out with the torch but it will make your butt pucker when the slag blows back out the hole

[Mark D]

Yeah I drilled straight through the bolt, but my jig didn't stay as centered as I'd thought it would. Raiding my facilities shop at lunch today yielded a much higher grade EZ-out set with a greater variety of sizes. I'm hoping that the heat from the torch will make be the convincer to get it out. If it still wont turn, I'll regroup with another corvousier and then have her towed to the nearest welder.

I can hear my stubborn yankee grandfather over my shoulder rooting me on, I only hope he's sitting with Saint Christopher while he's cheering me on.

[Mark D]

As mentioned prior, I attacked the broken head bolt with some heat and an ez-out. This stubborn yankee is going to make the following statement for anyone that reads this in the future... DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVEN IF GOD TELLS YOU HE'S GOING TO GIVE YOU ONE MADE FROM THE STRONGEST STEEL ON THE EARTH, I REPEAT DO NOT USE AN EZ-OUT. TAKE THEM TO THE NEAREST BRIDGE AND DROP THEM INTO THE OCEAN. OK now with that said I've learned my lesson and with tail between my legs offer the rest of the story.

I went to Lowes thursday night and bought a $45 dremel and $65 worth of diamond bits and titanium cutters. After four hours and going thru almost all of the bits I was able to grind away 60% of the bolt and ez-out with touching the threads. Then I used a steel punch to pop the rest of the ez-out into the water jacket. This and lots of other shavings and gunk was fished out simply with a magnet. Then I proceded to slot down the sides of the bolt until I touched the threads using the titanium cutter. (The head bolts are substantially softer than the ez-out, thats for sure.) With an ice pick and some persusions was able to pull out the rest of the bolt as seen in the photos.

After that I was able to start reassembly. At 11pm last night I had the head back on, oil filter mounted, and the linkage back in place.

Moral of the story; I learned a lot from the project, and as stated it was my first head gasket replacement. I am not a mechanic, and own sears tools for the most part, but was able to do all of this myself. So don't be afraid if you run up against a wall, some ingenuity and time between tasks is all that is needed. I used the time in between obstacles to clean and repaint anything that I took off the car, including repainting parts of the block I couldn't reach prior.

Today I am heading to grab a new set of plug wires and plugs. I am also going to pull the generator and give it a coat of black just to spiff it up. I think I may also pull the dizzy and clean that up and reinstall.

Fingers crossed she starts without issue.

(Photo 1, broken headbolt that has been center drilled. Photo 2, Neodinium Magnet placed on block next to hole to attract shavings from dremel. Photo 3, Block and gasket prepped with copper spray. Photo 4, head in place. Photo 5, Oil filter mounted, tstat housing in place, carb linkage in place.)

[1940plymouth]

A job well done, congrats

[greg g]

Your back must be more flexible and tolerant than mine is these days. All that time draped over a fender would have left me with a big Corvousier (well maybe Sam Adams)

tab. Probably larger than the parts cost.

Perserverence is a tool of the youthful.

And EZ out is an oxymoron. Even the math is wrong, If you broke the (for argument sake) 7/16th diameter bolt because it was not as storng as the rust holding it in, how does it work that when you drill a 5/16ths hole in it, then stick in a thinner piece of harder ( read more brittle) steel, and attempt to turn it again??? Doens't work on paper and rarely works in the field.

I have 2 stories regarding head bolts that I will tell you someday.

Also I have found over the years that using an impact wrench rather than hand powered twists works better on stuck bolts. But if yo don;t have access to air than this can be problematic. Ask me about special pricing on my old compressor.....

[james curl]

I have two electric impact wrenches that I use to remove head bolts and manifold bolts as well as the four bolts that secure the two manifolds together and have never broken a bolt in removing them.