53 cranbrook top chop!!

[Lakermatt]

I need some help with an issue I am having with my Plymouth. I have been contemplating chopping off the top of this bad boy but need some suggestions on how to support the car once done. It is a 4 door, and I have been told to weld up the back doors for support. I would be capping the tops of the doors and the top of the windshield. What else should I do to make this thing more strong. I heard if you don't support, your doors will start to close up.

[oldodge41]

You may get an answer here but this is a great question for the guys on the HAMB. Just be sure to read and follow their rules.

http://jalopyjournal.com/forum/index.php

[oldodge41]

I see you already had it on the HAMB.

[RobertKB]

Why wreck a good car unless it is already a rusty basket case?

[Rusty O'Toole]

I'm glad you asked before you picked up the Sawzall. This can be done but it is best to reinforce the body before you start cutting because it will have the strength and rigidity of a chocolate eclair once the roof is off.

Welding up the back doors will do practically nothing for you. Besides this never looks right, the front doors by themselves look too short. Notice that 2 door cars have longer doors.

The body will need to be strengthened under the rocker panels, or behind the rocker panels first. I have done this by making a piece of 1 1/2" square tubing with brackets, that bolted to the body and floor behind the rocker panel. If you can build it into the rocker panel so much the better, but that would be if you are replacing the rockers due to rust.

Then the door posts need to be reinforced. Look at the door posts on an old 4 door hardtop. They are shaped like a tree root. The best way to do this is with a piece of round tube, bent to shape, trimmed to fit and welded to the floor and to the door post. It should also tie into the support you added under the floor.

If you can add an X member to the frame, so much the better.

You will also need to reinforce the cowl to prevent the dreaded cowl shake.

It all depends what you want to do. If you plan to build a parade car for cheerleaders and local dignitaries to ride in, at 5 MPH on the Fourth of July that is one thing. To make a completely usable 4 door convertible is quite another.

Give us more ideas of what you want and will have more to say.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Rusty O'Toole

[Plymouthy Adams]

Here is a bit of the skinny...these 53/54 cars are a bit moresolid on the average in the rocker,crossbrace and flor pans than say the 49-52 models. The front body supports are taper pins that establish the initial alignment and is the glue to hold the door to fender alignments throughout it operational life. The very rear ones are usually solid as a rock also..the three down each side (6 total maybe 7 if you have the one to iso on accel top right upper frame at axle arch) the crossbraces, assocaited floor, inner and outer rockers all tie together and combined is the strength of the body. You will notice that the idstance between the frame rails and these cross supports are minimal..you can cut plywood shims the width of the frame and insert between the frame and body..the ones at the cross support will be a bit thinnner..once this is done it should totally support the car from sagging while the top is cut off IF you do not do chinese fire drill inside the compartment. However..key to all this is as I said earlier,,strength of the interrelated parts..be sure they are up to the task before cutting..if they are..then tomahawk that sucker if that is your objective..remember however..failure is not an option..if for one second you think you may not get this completed..moving a chop top in the middle of work is going to be difficult..

[Lakermatt]

Well. I don't want to put the roof back on. I want this to be a forever convertible. I just don't like the four doors, and I don't like the high top it has. This car is going to be in my garage and driven on weekends. I have just never done this before and don't want to screw up!! LOL

[Frank Elder]

Braces, braces and more cross braces

Then you will have to shorten the rear doors the same amount as the front doors need to be lengthened ....rob peter to pay paul as it were, move the door jambs back so that the new longer fronts will fit.

Then weld in your rears and jambs and fit your doors before you even think about hacking off the roof.

As I go on I go farther back...now is a good time to replace your inner and outer rockers if they are bad, if you don't do them and the floor first nothing will fit rite from the git go.

Got skills??? I hope so, but most will end up with a car that is unfinished or the doors pop open when you hit a bump or take a sharp corner.....don't forget extra gussets that stay permenently after the cross braces are gone. Or the x member added to the frame so you don't end up sagging.

Good luck.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Just weld in a roll cage Ha -Ha. These kind of top off jobs sooner or later usually get sold or end up in the bone yard. It's very complicated to properly re-enforce the body and to trim it off so it looks nice.Had a friend who did it to a Cad De-Ville. Partied in it and sold it. The fun and charm wore off pretty quick!-Oh and also pinched fingers resting on the door opening seams! Ouch!!!

[greg g]

There was a fellow here who had a studebaker 4 door that was in a building when the roof fell in. It crushed the rear of the roof across it and the drivers side front of the roof. He cut the roof off, and to reiforce the car, made a roll cage that was just below the height of the top of the front seat. Like Tim mentioned the main hoop was welded to the flor ad the ceter door posts. Then a piece of tubing went from the hoop rearward, through the floor to the frame behind the rear seat. At the front side of the hoop, tubes went forward at about hip level at an angle again through the floor to the frame. Like you he welded the rear doors closed. It drove it for a couple of summers, and sold it. It had gotten caught in the rain a couple of times, as our weather is a bit less predictable than in your neck of the woods.

[Plymouthy Adams]

convertibles had inner rocker middle stiffner and outer rocker and sat on an X frame..if you wish to make this a convertible..you will have to add some more strength to the mid section of the car in form of the most inner rocker stiffner..You will need also to add another crossbrace midway of the front door opening as the convertible has 12 body contact supports..how and if you handle the doors..some folks will weld these shut and mud over the seam and lie with the shorter front doors..the shorter front door will add to the "long" look of the rear body..if you were to make the drop top shorter than the actual roof and add about 12 inches to the trunk and move all the seams closer to the back seat and lose what was actually the package tray..will be one long butt baby...

[Rusty O'Toole]

Well. I don't want to put the roof back on. I want this to be a forever convertible. I just don't like the four doors, and I don't like the high top it has. This car is going to be in my garage and driven on weekends. I have just never done this before and don't want to screw up!! LOL

Well you are going to screw it up that is the whole idea. If you do it the way I said you will get to drive it until you are sick of it before you pawn it off or scrap it. As someone pointed out the novelty will wear off.

Brace the hell out of the body and add an X member to the frame. Make sure the doors are all lined up and working perfect before you start. Then cut the roof. Make a piece of tubing to finish off the top of the windshield frame, a muffler shop can bend the tube, or put in a piece of hardwood and carve it to shape.

Do not try to leave the wind wings, cut the top of the door right off. Add plexiglass wind wings to the windshield post if you like.

Make a padded seat for the package deck, that is where the cheerleaders will sit.

Have it upholstered in boat vinyl, that way it will not matter so much if it gets rained on. Also rubber floor mats.

Get the upholsterer to make a tonneau cover to cover the passenger compartment in case of rain. Add a zipper so you can open just the driver's seat.

Finally dress it up with a bright primary color paint job, whitewalls, fender skirts, continental kit or whatever strikes your fancy.

The cheerleaders will be all over you lol.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Rusty O'Toole

[Plymouthy Adams]

can't you folks just give the man a bit of advice on how to go as that is what he wants to do..the question was for suggestion on HOW TO DO the job not on the merits of keeping it stock...it is his car win or lose..finish or shatter the rust barrier with a sonic boom in his attempt..not everyone want a car like the guy next door..

[Lakermatt]

Thanks to all the guys that are giving me advice. It looks like all the bad out weighs the good. When I bought the car there must of been bad drip rails because all the upper pillars had rusted through. So bad in some spots , like the windshield pillar on the drivers side looked like Swiss cheese!! I cut out the outer skin off the pillars and was going to make new skins that go on the pillars, then thought aww screw it!! I am going to just cut the damn roof off and make it a convertible. There was a guy in my town that did this to a 51 or 52 Plymouth that turned out sweet. He had it on eBay. I really liked it and that's were my quest to find a Plymouth began!! I am hearing alot of don't do it's, and I truly believe that there is some good people with even better knowledge that are giving me sound advice. I don't know alot about cars and just want some good thinking and maybe some personal accounts... Thanks everyone!!

[Dodgeb4ya]

can't you folks just give the man a bit of advice on how to go as that is what he wants to do..the question was for suggestion on HOW TO DO the job not on the merits of keeping it stock...it is his car win or lose..finish or shatter the rust barrier with a sonic boom in his attempt..not everyone want a car like the guy next door..

Cut the roof off---don't do anything else-it will stay together for the most part- and have fun with it, then sell it!

Don't waste money on a old rusty car just to cut the top off and still have a car not worth much. JMO!

[deathbound]

You can always make or have a Carson Top made for it if you get tired of it being a full time convertible. Just take the advice of those that said to reinforce the frame/rocker panels prior to making ANY cuts to the roof/pillars. Could be a cool sled when done. Start a thread with pics along the way & don't be afraid to ask questions. Good luck.

Here's a link for the Carson Top:http://www.rikhovingkustoms.com/RHK1/CarsonTop.html

Edited October 3, 2011 by deathbound
added link

[Frank Elder]

Thanks to all the guys that are giving me advice. It looks like all the bad out weighs the good. When I bought the car there must of been bad drip rails because all the upper pillars had rusted through. So bad in some spots , like the windshield pillar on the drivers side looked like Swiss cheese!! I cut out the outer skin off the pillars and was going to make new skins that go on the pillars, then thought aww screw it!! I am going to just cut the damn roof off and make it a convertible. There was a guy in my town that did this to a 51 or 52 Plymouth that turned out sweet. He had it on eBay. I really liked it and that's were my quest to find a Plymouth began!! I am hearing alot of don't do it's, and I truly believe that there is some good people with even better knowledge that are giving me sound advice. I don't know alot about cars and just want some good thinking and maybe some personal accounts... Thanks everyone!!

This a purist 25 percent, improve it make it look stock 65, customize it 10 percent board.......nobody is going to miss your car terribly if it is as rusty as you say.

So whack it up if you want to, who knows you might have a flair for it and become a $hit hot customizer:)If not it can also become the tidemark for the skill level you hope to accomplish....If nothing else after you finish the floors and rockers you might fall in love with the old gal:eek:and start shopping for stock paint colors!

[Plymouthy Adams]

didn't mean to sound totally crude and out of line here..but how many times on here has this happened...I was once quilty of this myself but have slowly realized my concerns are not that of the owner...man want to alter his car..engine, body, interior whatever...yeah keeping it stock is nice..these are fine cars when first built..but we all got to realize that all cars are not worthy of a restoration and I hate to use that word as you will not find many true restorations out there as it is..yeah..lots of reworked cars with attention to detail to X degree but authenic..only once and that was the day it rolled off the line. If it is one thing I have learned over the past couple years is that it is not my position to say yeah or nay to what a guy thinks is best for his car..only support it if you have information that is benficial or choose not to answer the thread if you think they are off base...like brand X engines..these cars get put in my cyber can on first mention of going that way but I no longer try to point out that there are other ways..

I feel the man has a dream or a vision of what he want his car to be..we can suport him getting to that realization or again, ignore the every step of the process. If the car comes out a survivor so much the better..it is dies on the operating table and gets sent to the morgue, well so be it, the man has realized one of two things, success or failure and may well be a lesson to not attempt a future project of this nature..I know of a few shops that have so many unfinished heaps of junk sitting around in various states of butcher it is just not funny and these guys will go on a continue doing this..they are the ones that have not realized their skill or pocket book is a tad shy of real world reality and not a reflection of some hot rod show on TV..these shows and events get so much hype going and never show the nitty gritty ball busting work in the background and makes everyone think they can be a fabricator. If the average person would sit back and just take a few minutes to consider that these cars are promoted by advertizing and that the car is taken apart and farmed out to about 30 different specialty shops and only reassembled in 1 minute film clips for the show...if you had unlimited money and unlimited rsources at your finger tips..even the average Joe can be the next Boyd or whoever..

We have a number of folks on here that have taken years getting to a finished project even with huge amounts of money and farming out to "top shops and customizers" only to have the end product very much less a reliable running car. Oh yeah they do look good...on a trailer...and that is for two reason, first to protect the investment, second so they know you can get there and back..

and with that...'nuff said..!

[Frank Elder]

Bravo, you long winded old goat!:D:eek:From a younger old goat:p!

[54Illinois]

Check out what this guy did...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1954-PLYMOUTH-SAVOY-CUSTOM-PROJECT-RAT-ROD-/320767494484?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item4aaf3b8954

[Don Coatney]

Dont forget the added drama in the TV shows. The shows live on the drama of getting the cars owner to thinking that his car has been butchered, stolden, or crushed. Then when the finished product is displayed 1/2 hour later the owner spews real tears because the car has been butchered and it is not at all what they wanted.

[Captain Neon]

I've always told my wife that if I had a second car (maybe a D24), she was free to call Overhaulin' and feed them whatever line of BS she wants to for them to turn it into a MoPar V8-powered automatic trannied modified. However, my '46 P15S more door is hands off. I've had the car since I was 14, and while I have changed my mind many times before I have money in hand to go to the next step, I made all the decisions and have been happy with the results. I honestly do not think that I could handle numerous big changes all at once. The car would lose some thing to me had I not gotten acquainted and familiar with the previous repair, change, or improvement. Nothing sadder to me when I hear the owner exclaim, "It isn't the same car any more!"

[Frank Elder]

You don't think those cars are free on Overhauling do you, value is assessed on the new parts that went into the car and gift/value tax is applied....if you can't pay it you have to sign it over to Chip...it's the same as winning anything on a game show.

[Captain Neon]

You don't think those cars are free on Overhauling do you, value is assessed on the new parts that went into the car and gift/value tax is applied....if you can't pay it you have to sign it over to Chip...it's the same as winning anything on a game show.

Of course not, but we don't live in California either.

[Don Coatney]

You don't think those cars are free on Overhauling do you, value is assessed on the new parts that went into the car and gift/value tax is applied....if you can't pay it you have to sign it over to Chip...it's the same as winning anything on a game show.

What if you tell them you dont like it and want the car returned with the original parts back in place and the car returned to you in the same condition as when they took it? That is one show I would watch.