brakes... Please help any way you can?

[Alaska48]

I haven't posted for a while. I've just been discouraged working on my car with my lack of mechanical knowledge.

In simplest Alaska48 terms... my brakes don't work. Push the pedal down and it falls to the floor.

Do I need to bleed the brakes and this will fix it or do I need to replace the master cylinder?

I wish I had someone up here to help me. I've asked a couple of people the last two years and they're either unable or unwilling to assist me. I don't want to take it to a shop and have them charge me $1000 and I still learn nothing. I'm intimidated by going to a car club and just showing up "Hey guys, can someone come over to my house and show me whats wrong with my car?"

Does anyone know of a writeup or walkthrough on P15s or older cars on how to troubleshoot this problem? I've seen a few writeups but they're for a lot newer vehicles that dont apply to my car.

I would appreciate any pictures, simple step by step troubleshoot or walkthrough or advice ya'll can provide me. At a minimum, please don't flame me out of here or refer me to a link, at least provide me words of encouragement. I really wanna drive this car around this summer. I'm so close, she runs great, but just can't brake at all. I haven't driven her since I was 17 and i'm almost 30 now. The driving season is so short up here, I want to get a good opportunity to get her rolling on the street.

[Young Ed]

Other than probably being power assisted and parts in different spots those newer car write ups apply. The basic principle of how the brakes work hasn't changed since they were invented. Does the pedal fall to the floor or just go down without much effort? Does it come back up?

[Kevinb71]

Not knowing where you have started leaves some questions. Have you checked and filled the Master cylinder with brake fluid? Simple , but vital. Next if you have done that previously have you pumped the brakes(5-15 times to start with) and watched every two to three pumps whether the fluid level is going down in the master cylinder. Make sure you replace the cover every time between checking as fluid may at times squirt back up. Let me/us know where you are at and i'll go on. Might be able to scan you a copy of the service manual if you don't have one. It would be a really good idea for you to get one.

[cwcars88]

Go to the car club, you may be suprised at how open minded some are and willing to help each other. I have found in the clubs I belong to, if one is willing to ask and get there hands dirty someone will help. The ones that have a hard time getting help are the ones that want someone else to do all the work. You sound like you are willing to do what ever it takes, with that attitude I would think you will find willing helpers.

Good Luck

[p24-1953]

i agree with kevin. is there fluid in the car? Can you get fluid at the bleeder screws at the brakes? If you dont get any help PM me and i can try to walk you through a few things

[Andydodge]

Alaska, no worries, we've ALL been there........if you haven't got a service manual get one, they help a heap, also spend some time going thru ALL the posts here..........you'll be surprised what knowledge there is here and I include not just the car posts, checkout the Powerhouse pickup posts, tech articles, etc ...everything........the other guys have given you the right info, give it a whirl and who knows it might have been something simple.........anyway nice to hear from someone "way up north"........regards, andyd

[TodFitch]

cwcars88 has a very good suggestion for yet another reason: Unless you get a pressure bleeder with appropriate adapters for your master cylinder it is very, very difficult to bleed the brakes yourself. Having a club member who knows how to do the work will allow you to learn first hand and also give a second person to pump the pedal as required when bleeding the system.

And regardless of the root cause of your problem, you will need to bleed the brake system if your pedal goes to the floor.

[greg g]

Have you read the brake information that is accessed from the host pasge of this forum.

I beleife it is under works in progress from the menu tab along the left of the test.

Use the button in the tool bar in the upper left side of the page here that says Return to p15 D 24. That article will explain the prinicples of the Lockheed system and walk you through the procedures necessary to have a properly working system.

If your brake shoes are not properly adjusted, you will not get a proper bleed.

[Tom Skinner]

You Tube has tutorials on how to bleed brakes and repair them.

In addition to this you can obtain a Service Manual for your car and read up on all the steps it takes to repair brakes. In this way you may become confident in your own ability to make the necessary repair.

One more thing when working on brakes do one side at a time in order to use the opposite side as a snapshot guide as to the correct way to re-assemble everything as you go. The Northern Tools sells a self Brake Bleeder Vacumn/pump so you don't even need a buddy, wife or child to help you with that task anymore. STAND UP - its your turn to do what is needed and do it now! When the going gets tough the tough get going!

Start with rebuilding Wheel Cylinders. Then Master if need be then bleed and fill them - check shoes along the way - GOOD LUCK!

Tom Skinner

Huntersville, NC

[TodFitch]

You Tube has tutorials on how to bleed brakes and repair them.

In addition to this you can obtain a Service Manual for your car and read up on all the steps it takes to repair brakes. In this way you may become confident in your own ability to make the necessary repair.

One more thing when working on brakes do one side at a time in order to use the opposite side as a snapshot guide as to the correct way to re-assemble everything as you go. The Northern Tools sells a self Brake Bleeder Vacumn/pump so you don't even need a buddy, wife or child to help you with that task anymore. STAND UP - its your turn to do what is needed and do it now! When the going gets tough the tough get going!

Start with rebuilding Wheel Cylinders. Then Master if need be then bleed and fill them - check shoes along the way - GOOD LUCK!

Tom Skinner

Huntersville, NC

My experience with the vacuum bleeder tools has been dismal. Old fashioned "get the wife/girlfriend to pump the brake pedal" works a lot better for me. Even doing it myself by pumping up pressure and relying on the residual valve in the master cylinder to hold a bit of pressure until I get to the wheel cylinder works better for me.

The vacuum pump that comes with that kit is good for checking the vacuum advance on your distributor but that is about it as far as my use.

[greg g]

Has anyone tried a IV style bleed. Ie hanging a reservoir of new fluid aboce the MC, and then adding fluid into an open bleede nipple?

[Alshere59]

My suggestions in order

Visual inspection:

1. Is there any sign of leakage at the wheels? Wet spot normally either running down the wheel of may be a splatter pattern going around the inside of the rim.

2. Is there any sign of leakge on the lines going back and forth to the master cylinder? Pay attention to the rubber lines going to each side of the front brakes and rear axle.

No then go to 3.

3. Is there brake fluid in the master cylinder? Just open the cap and make sure its at least a 1/4 inch below the cap.

4. Push the pedal down slowly while the cap is off. a. Any resistance? b. Fluid level drop? c. Can anyone one hear the shoes moving in front or back pick one. Spouse or friend can do this?

5. Nothing above applies we need more information.

Possible solutions.:

1: Leaks on wheel? Replace or rebuild wheel cylinders.

2: Same as above fix leaks.

3. If it is low add fluid.

4. a. No resitance and no drop in fluid level or no movement of brake shoes heard rebuild/replace master cylinder.

c. If you hear it move or can feel some resistance while rotating the wheel while on jacks. Then adjust brake cylinders. You did get a manual right?

So if you made it this far and adjusted the wheel cylinders do you have any brakes even a little. Then bleed brakes.

If you have nothing then get someone that can help.

[Alshere59]

Has anyone tried a IV style bleed. Ie hanging a reservoir of new fluid aboce the MC, and then adding fluid into an open bleede nipple?

I haven't.

I did try a pressure bleed using a garden sprayer converted. I have removed the check valve on the original master cylinder and installed residual valves. Results were front was good the rear just dribbled. I do not have a pressure guage yet so that may be an issue.

My question is, if it won't bleed under pressure how would an IV type work? I think even fire wall mounted MC have pressure/check valves.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Alshere59

[Jim Saraceno]

Check this out.... http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/008/cover.htm

[Alaska48]

Other than probably being power assisted and parts in different spots those newer car write ups apply. The basic principle of how the brakes work hasn't changed since they were invented. Does the pedal fall to the floor or just go down without much effort? Does it come back up?

Pedal goes down with no braking effect and comes back up. Tried the "pumping" method and did not create any braking effect or leakage.

Not knowing where you have started leaves some questions. Have you checked and filled the Master cylinder with brake fluid? Simple , but vital. Next if you have done that previously have you pumped the brakes(5-15 times to start with) and watched every two to three pumps whether the fluid level is going down in the master cylinder. Make sure you replace the cover every time between checking as fluid may at times squirt back up. Let me/us know where you are at and i'll go on. Might be able to scan you a copy of the service manual if you don't have one. It would be a really good idea for you to get one.

Before I write my next statement, please keep in mind I have no knowledge of working on cars. Where is the master cylinder located at so I can check to see if it has fluid in it?

[greg g]

under the floor mat of carpet on the drivers side is an oval access port above the MC.

[Kevinb71]

Alaska48

Not knowing is a temporary condition. Not trying is more long lasting! You can at the very least check out this problem. Find the access hole mentioned in previous posts under your feet under the carpet as you sit in the car. The master cylinder (may have alot of dirt on it that will hide it) should be directly under that oval sheetmetal access cover in the floor. The actual MC cover would have a round "plug" in the top with probably a square hub on top. Make sure to clean any dirt away from around this cover very well. turn the cover out of the MC and look inside. The fluid should be visible. If there is no fluid i would try adding and then pumping slowly. Get to this point and post back your findings. Then the next steps can be discussed.

[Alaska48]

Alaska48

Not knowing is a temporary condition. Not trying is more long lasting! You can at the very least check out this problem. Find the access hole mentioned in previous posts under your feet under the carpet as you sit in the car. The master cylinder (may have alot of dirt on it that will hide it) should be directly under that oval sheetmetal access cover in the floor. The actual MC cover would have a round "plug" in the top with probably a square hub on top. Make sure to clean any dirt away from around this cover very well. turn the cover out of the MC and look inside. The fluid should be visible. If there is no fluid i would try adding and then pumping slowly. Get to this point and post back your findings. Then the next steps can be discussed.

I will do this when I get home tonight from work... If no brake fluid is visible inside the MC do I add the fluid via the plug port in the MC that i'm looking in? Also, just a curiosity question of "how things work" if it is not visible and I add fluid to the MC would that not put air in my brakelines so i'd have to bleed the brakes anyway?

[greg g]

You really need to read about how things work, and gain a basic knowledge of the system you are about to work on. You have already intorduced air into the system by your previous relentless pumping on a non operative system.

Do yourself a favor and go to your local library. Go to the reference system and take a look at an older MOTOS or Chilton repair manual. These are not usually specific to your system but will give you a basic understanding of what goes on and what needs to be done to have the brakes work. You will also become familiar with the terms folks are shooting at you. It'spretty straight forward but looking over your shoulder from 2000 miles away is not going to help you much when you pull something aprat and then ca;t get it back together.

You will then end up with a car that will need to have sombody come over and reassemble it to get it onto the roll back to send it to the shop.

But if you do not understand how why and when it necessary to bleed the system, its gonna be worse when and if you decide to pull a drum and peer inside.

[Alaska48]

You really need to read about how things work, and gain a basic knowledge of the system you are about to work on. You have already intorduced air into the system by your previous relentless pumping on a non operative system.

Do yourself a favor and go to your local library. Go to the reference system and take a look at an older MOTOS or Chilton repair manual. These are not usually specific to your system but will give you a basic understanding of what goes on and what needs to be done to have the brakes work. You will also become familiar with the terms folks are shooting at you. It'spretty straight forward but looking over your shoulder from 2000 miles away is not going to help you much when you pull something aprat and then ca;t get it back together.

You will then end up with a car that will need to have sombody come over and reassemble it to get it onto the roll back to send it to the shop.

But if you do not understand how why and when it necessary to bleed the system, its gonna be worse when and if you decide to pull a drum and peer inside.

:-(

[Plymouthy Adams]

You really need to read about how things work, and gain a basic knowledge of the system you are about to work on. You have already intorduced air into the system by your previous relentless pumping on a non operative system.

Do yourself a favor and go to your local library. Go to the reference system and take a look at an older MOTOS or Chilton repair manual. These are not usually specific to your system but will give you a basic understanding of what goes on and what needs to be done to have the brakes work. You will also become familiar with the terms folks are shooting at you. It'spretty straight forward but looking over your shoulder from 2000 miles away is not going to help you much when you pull something aprat and then ca;t get it back together.

You will then end up with a car that will need to have sombody come over and reassemble it to get it onto the roll back to send it to the shop.

But if you do not understand how why and when it necessary to bleed the system, its gonna be worse when and if you decide to pull a drum and peer inside.

there is iron in them words...I have been at this hobby for many many years..also it has paid the bills many times over...and I assure you that upon getting a new old vehicle to play with that I have never owned before, I do buy the book and read it cover to cover usually before I even get the car itslef and I guarantee you that I read it prior to turning wrenches..to get something to operate correctly one must understand how it works..use proper techniques, tools and instructions to effectively repair without harm to you, the device and your wallet..

[greg g]

Don;t understand the frowny face.

Your choices are clear.

Learn and do

Find some one to assist you

Pay to have it done professionally

Or continue to wait and hope that the repair squirts out of your broadband connection.

I have no experience with a salt water aquarium, with exotic fish, coral, and eels. But I want to buy one and set it up. Where should I start? Do I need to buy sea water or can I make salt water with H20 and NaCL. How do I know it its salty enough.

I guess I might start with some basic information, figure the costs and availabities and then judge whether I can dabble in the hobby.

You joind in 2008, and asked some questions, telling us that the car was in your fathers hands and was redone in 1997. Much water has passed over the damn. At this point, I would suggest you have the car taken to a professional, pay what it costs and at least be able to enjoy the car till the next thing comes up.

I would think that your grandfather and father had some understanding of automobiles or this car would have been in the junk yard ages ago. If they could do it, it should be somwhere in your genes..................

My dad used to say, you can't help someone who won't help themselves.

[Captain Neon]

I guess I am at a loss. Please understand I'm not trying to be a complete jerk here, but how does one make it to almost 30, and not even understand the basics of where to put the fluids in? The last time that I ran into some one with so little knowledge cars, the kid was 15 and his friends had sent him in to the auto parts store where I was working to pick up a bottle of blinker fluid.

You desperately need to join a car club, befriend a lonely retired auto mechanic that wanted kids but could never find a woman that would have him, and then get him to show you how things work on a car.

If your father or grandfather are still alive, you really need to admonish them for not raising you right. My brother and I were in the shop with my dad almost every weekend fixing some thing whether we wanted to be there or not.

I agree with Greg that you need to just pay the money and get some one to fix your brakes. From my own experience, you probably would have been enjoying the car for the last two years, but because you didn't even know the basics of where to put the brake fluid you just let the car set. Pretty scarey to me that you didn't check the brakes before you went on your first cruise around the cul du sac.

Had you purchased a service manual, you would have seen nice clear black & white photos of happy clean mechanics adding brake fluid to the master cylinder, and a plethora of other useful information. More than likely you just needed to fill the master cylinder and you would have been good to go, but now it has been setting empty for two years and everything is gummed up and what isn't gummed up is dried out.